Other FGRV's and trailers - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 01-18-2008, 06:28 AM   #15
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Blair,

It's undoubtedly a nice unit, but you have to remember that the asking price isn't the same as the selling price. One unit does not a trend make, and merely that they're asking an amount for a specific unit doesn't mean they'll get it. That's a $4k unit any way you slice it. But still, $4k for a twenty year old trailer that sold new for $8k is pretty good. They may find someone who'll buy it at their asking price for it's novelty, but they're asking way more than the market value for that trailer. They've painted this one silver to capitalize on the Airstream craze... despite the custom work, it's still only a painted Scamp fiver, and an old one at that...

I like Scamps. I like Scamps a lot. I've had four of them, two 13s, a 16 CD, and a 19 CD and did well with them when I sold them. Of all of the trailers I've had (including my Airstreams), I probably miss my 16' CD the most. However, it didn't have an 80" queen island bed, a full-size shower I can stand in (at 6'5" tall) and have 4" over my head yet, a full couch and table, nor did it have the full winter insulation package including dual thermopane windows and heated tanks; all items that are very important to me now... and I got them in my Bigfoot in a 25' package that is only about 2,000 lbs heavier than the Scamp 16 was (comparing as-equipped curb weights). As a matter of fact, the 25B25RQ is the only molded fiberglass trailer on the market with those features... at any price. The difficulty factor of making a 25' mold over a 16' mold must be incredible. The fit and finish and choice of interior materials on my two were superior to any of the other molded fiberglass trailers I've owned. All those features come at a price, I expected that to be the case, and I was prepared to pay that price for what I wanted in a molded fiberglass trailer. That's also why Bigfoot commands a premium price on the used market. They offer features no other FGRV offers, and they're still relatively rare used in the U.S. For me, both of mine were a good value for my dollar. For others who have different expectations, it may not be. That's why trailers are built that fit all price points.

Certainly fiberglass trailers in general retain their value much better than just about anything else out there... and just try to find a twenty year old stick built anything that's worth owning!

Roger
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:13 AM   #16
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I agree with Roger. The asking price is not the selling price. I don't think the silver paint on the Scamp 5th wheel does it justice, but that's just me.

All of our fiberglass trailers, if well maintained, will do well. Besides, I personally don't make a purchase based on resale value. I maintain it with resale in mind, but I purchase something because it suits MY needs and it's something that I will enjoy.

Either way you go, small or large, there is a sacrifice in one area or another. I'm just glad that those who need more space have an option of going bigger and still stay in molded fiberglass. Who knows, that might even be me someday.


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Old 01-18-2008, 08:36 AM   #17
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Here is a 18 year old Bigfoot that they are asking $7500 for and with your analogy it is definitely only worth $3000 dollars, remember $7500 is only the asking price. I am still trying to figure out where BF's hold their value better then any of the other FG trailers as eluded to numerous times by moderators and owners of this website. Especially when the BF can have the same tendencies as stickies because they have a wooden wall structure where they could pond water without anyone knowing it or being able to see it.

Hey to each his own I guess, and we all can substantiate and be very happy with what ever the price to real quality is in our trailers.

Blair

Quote:
It's undoubtedly a nice unit, but you have to remember that the asking price isn't the same as the selling price. One unit does not a trend make, and merely that they're asking an amount for a specific unit doesn't mean they'll get it. That's a $4k unit any way you slice it. But still, $4k for a twenty year old trailer that sold new for $8k is pretty good.
Roger
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:16 AM   #18
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Here is a 18 year old Bigfoot that they are asking $7500 for and with your analogy it is definitely only worth $3000 dollars, remember $7500 is only the asking price. I am still trying to figure out where BF's hold their value better then any of the other FG trailers as eluded to numerous times by moderators and owners of this website.

Blair
Ok, Blair...

This is pretty basic, and I'd presume you would know this, but selling prices trend. You can gauge the market value of a trailer by what similar units have sold for in the recent past, just as comps are done in real estate. I don't think I've seen any Bigfoot sell for less than $5k over the past three years, and most that age sell in the $7500 range. The owner of that Bigfoot will probably get his $7500 asking price, or close to it as that's what the market price on it is. Scamp 19' trailers OTOH are all over the map, depending on age and amenities, with most from the mid '80s going for $4k to $5k again depending on the actual condition (which is more important than age). As a comparison, an early 2000s Scamp 19 will go for around $12k to $15k +/- again depending on condition and options.

I based my opinion of the value of the Scamp against what I've seen similar age Scamps 19s sell for in the past couple of years. The silver one has a market value of $4k to $5k. That doesn't mean he'll not get his asking price, it's just priced higher than other trailers that age and condition that have sold. I don't know where you came up with the $3,000 value for the Bigfoot. [b]I'd buy it for $3k!

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Here is a 18 year old Bigfoot that they are asking $7500 Especially when the BF can have the same tendencies as stickies because they have a wooden wall structure where they could pond water without anyone knowing it or being able to see it.

Blair
And perhaps you should read this post and this post regarding the structure of the Bigfoot. You sound as though perhaps you're making some assumptions that aren't necessarily accurate.

Roger
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:34 AM   #19
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Trailer: Evelands Inc. Scamp 5vr
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I had already read those posts. My assumption was that BF's have a complete encompassing interior wall unlike most of the other FGRV. True they all have interior wooden support structures but the others dont have complete interior walls that cover the whole inside of the fiberglass shell.

Blair

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Ok, Blair...

And perhaps you should read this post and this post regarding the structure of the Bigfoot. You sound as though perhaps you're making some assumptions that aren't necessarily accurate.

Roger
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:42 AM   #20
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I don't think I've seen any Bigfoot sell for less than $5k over the past three years, and most that age sell in the $7500 range. [b]I'd buy it for $3k!
Just had a Bigfoot 18 go on eBay that was listed in our referrals section. Final price was $3800. Fortunately, one of our members snagged it. Saw one or two this summer go in that range as well.
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:08 AM   #21
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There are so many things that are involved in the final selling price of a trailer. Location, need to sell, condition, buyers for one particular trailer... I could go on. It just like an auction. All it takes is two buyers who want the same thing and the price can go all over the board. On the other side, it might be an extremely desireable unit that just picked the wrong time to be sold and the seller is desperate.

Having said that, if I were to purchase another trailer (and I have looked at them) the first person I would ask (and I have) is Roger. Why? Because he has purchased and sold more brands than any person I have ever known. Not only that, he researches it to the point that my eyes would cross. I'm not saying that because he is a moderator or because he owns a Bigfoot, I'm saying that because his information is based on actual experience and not theory. He has bought and sold more brands than most people know exist ... including a used Bigfoot.

You can do your numbers all day long, but I totally trust Roger on this one ... and I've never even met the guy.

The preceeding comment was from a lowly trailer owner, not a moderator.

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Old 01-18-2008, 10:18 AM   #22
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What does this have to do with price and quality?

Blair

Quote:
There are so many things that are involved in the final selling price of a trailer. Location, need to sell, condition, buyers for one particular trailer... I could go on. It just like an auction. All it takes is two buyers who want the same thing and the price can go all over the board. On the other side, it might be an extremely desireable unit that just picked the wrong time to be sold and the seller is desperate.

Having said that, if I were to purchase another trailer (and I have looked at them) the first person I would ask (and I have) is Roger. Why? Because he has purchased and sold more brands than any person I have ever known. Not only that, he researches it to the point that my eyes would cross. I'm not saying that because he is a moderator or because he owns a Bigfoot, I'm saying that because his information is based on actual experience and not theory. He has bought and sold more brands than most people know exist ... including a used Bigfoot.

You can do your numbers all day long, but I totally trust Roger on this one ... and I've never even met the guy.

The preceeding comment was from a lowly trailer owner, not a moderator.

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Old 01-18-2008, 10:35 AM   #23
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Quote:
I had already read those posts. My assumption was that BF's have a complete encompassing interior wall unlike most of the other FGRV. True they all have interior wooden support structures but the others dont have complete interior walls that cover the whole inside of the fiberglass shell.

Blair
Actually, they do have interior wall coverings that cover the whole inside of the shell. They're just different materials, but all do the same thing and hide the same ills. Burro and Eggcamper have an interior shell that covers the entire interior. Scamp and Casita use various materials to hide the fiberglass shell, currently carpet-type products. One of the banes of Scamp is that the window seals shrink, and rain water runs onto the floor un-noticed and concealed under the rat fur and carpet to rot out the floor under the window. In the Burro, the interior wall hides the insulation, and those trailers that have had leaks have substantial mold and mildew issues with the insulation. One of our members bought a Burro and they have had problems using it because pf the mold issues.

The Bigfoot interior materials do exactly the same thing as the rat fur, carpet & ensolite; they merely hide the insulation. The wood behind the paneling is merely furring, it's not structural. The structure in all these trailers comes from the interior cabinetry. For example, the panel partition in the side-dinette Scamp and Casita trailers isn't cosmetic, it's structural.

Once again, I think your assumption was in error.

Roger
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:35 AM   #24
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Roger is definitely dead on on the price range for the Silver 19 Scamp. I found that listing and knew that it was an extremely inflated asking price.

Bigfoot's normally do go as Roger states, but as we saw this week occasionally you can snag one as you can with anything on the used market. As Suz says the condition, once one possesses one of these deals, may make it a "fair price."

I wonder if the good resale value in the Bigfoot's isn't necessarily a quality issue, but that they are maintained better by their owners and generally are in good or excellent condition when they go to resale. If you pay quite a bit more in the beginning for something do you take better care of it?

Many of the other brands of fiberglass trailers seem to be in various states of disaster and bring various prices accordingly. When one is really nicely maintained or restored it seems to net top dollar without much time on market much like the used Bigfoots.
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:40 AM   #25
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Quote:
There are so many things that are involved in the final selling price of a trailer.
The Bigfoot on eBay that just sold has one of those caveats. The seller originally listed it with a Buy It Now of 2500. Had someone jumped on that, they would have gotten a really really good deal. As it was, it STILL went for less than what it would have camanded if he had listed it correctly, for what it was. Using this trailer as an example is unrealistic, it is way off the norm and average.

I do not know for sure, but it appears that the seller just wasn't aware of what he had (Or was just desperate to get rid of it) and let it go for way less than what comperable others might have gone for.

That happens. My own trailer was one of these. I paid 5k for a virtually new (As in unused, not age) 17 foot Burro. It was MORE than a fair price for me, and I am sure the seller wasn't aware that ones in far more "Used" condition go for 2500 to 4000 more.

That said, using *my* purchase price to judge the value of others would be totally unrealistic. I also would not use someones purchase on the other end of the scale to judge the value either. It takes ALL numbers to make an average. And average is only the starting point when judging true value for resale.
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:53 AM   #26
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What does this have to do with price and quality?

Blair
First, thank you Suz. You're very kind.

Blair, I take Suz's comments to mean that I don't take a huge financial loss when I buy, and I research thoroughly what I buy. I always buy with the intent of being able to use whatever it is I buy for two years without taking a depreciation hit.

I'm not wealthy and I've worked hard for the few assets I own. I don't want to lose my hard-earned money to depreciation if I can help it. What that has to do with quality is that I buy the highest quality "gizmo" at the lowest price I can possibly get. The quality item ensures that it will continue to be in demand on the used market and will sell quickly at the best price I can get for it. I'll get the smallest depreciation amount on the money I spend. Occasionally a fiberglass trailer can even be an investment yielding a higher return at sale than you bought it for; the absolute best case. But this requires doing your homework about the current market value of a specific make and model; how much demand there is for it; and how much work and expense will go into it in repairs before you can use it or re-sell it.

In practical terms, this means that I have used each trailer I've bought and either broken even or actually made money on each of them. The Bigfoot 25' I bought new (essentially breaking my own rules about taking a hit on the depreciation on a new trailer or car) I've had for a year and a half, and checking just the other day, it's only depreciated about 5% using NADA values. At current market values, I could probably sell it today for what I paid for it new in September of '06 as a year-end closeout. There are other molded fiberglass trailers that hold their value as well, but there's nothing else out there (including Airstream) with the features of my 25B25RQ that holds it's value as well; e.g. the Arctic Fox 25' has similar features, but doesn't do nearly as well in depreciation.

I have an '06 Honda Civic that I researched thoroughly as well. We bought it new in January of '06 on a three-year finance at 0% interest. Even with 42k miles on it, the car has only depreciated about 10% in two years compared to other cars that have depreciated over 1/3 of their new value in the same period with less miles. I have an '02 Tundra that I bought in '05 with 45k miles on it that KBB.com says is worth just $2k less today with 68k miles than I paid for it. Had I bought it new, I'd have taken a $15k hit in depreciation by now, so I'm $13k up over buying new.

That's what Suz's comments have to do with quality vs. price.

Roger
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:56 AM   #27
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I wonder if the good resale value in the Bigfoot's isn't necessarily a quality issue, but that they are maintained better by their owners and generally are in good or excellent condition when they go to resale. If you pay quite a bit more in the beginning for something do you take better care of it?

Many of the other brands of fiberglass trailers seem to be in various states of disaster and bring various prices accordingly. When one is really nicely maintained or restored it seems to net top dollar without much time on market much like the used Bigfoots.
And Greg may be onto something here. There aren't many used Bigfoot trailers I've seen that were trashed when sold. Certainly it would appear that the percentage of trashed Bigfoots is much lower anyway.

Roger
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:11 PM   #28
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I am still trying to figure out where BF's hold their value better then any of the other FG trailers as eluded to numerous times by moderators and owners of this website.
Blair
Did I say that; I don't think so. Your comment puzzled me so I reread this thread.

Blair wrote.
<blockquote> Do you think that these folks are anymore critical of their trailers then I am of my Scamp($22,000 @ 19'=$96 an inch) because they paid so much more then we did?
</blockquote>I added my cost to the list as a point of reference.
<blockquote> I just bought a B25RQ for $93.33/in.
</blockquote>OOPS sorry, I one upped you.

You obviously love your Scamp as I did my Casita. Hope I like the Bigfoot as much, time will tell. My wife and I have decided to become full timers as long as my health holds out. That said she wanted a larger trailer and a tow that could handle it. I decided to get a 3/4 ton truck, but I wanted a diesel for the torque. It turns out that the EPA was changing all the rules about diesels and going to low sulfur with catalytic converters. Oh man I didn't want Smog inspections, so I looked at 2006 and early 2007 trucks. I found a close out 2007 list price for just under $50,000. No way I could afford that. The dealer said if I would take that left over truck, a 1 ton, they would sell it for an unbievable discount and double the warranty, throw in a Jake Brake, executive service and ALL the fluids for all the services during the warranty. So I bought it.

Yes, I'm a shopper.

I planned on looking at and buying a 25 Bigfoot Front Queen when they come out. They are not even on the Bigfoot website yet. Probably would make the purchase in 2009. Roger knowing my interest has been pointing out 25' Bigfoot trailers to me.

Now my dad is nearly 93 years old and so I like to go see him as much as I can. One of the "deals" Roger found was in Washington state near my dad. So when we went to see my dad, we decided to go see the trailer, a 25B25RQ. Yep a rear queen. I looked at it and found that he had only gone out once in it and it was a year old. He and his wife split, his 16 year old daughter hated it and so it no longer fit his needs. He was making huge monthly payments and wanted out from under it. I asked him, "What is your bottom line for the trailer?" He said he would sell it for less then he owed. Well I said I'll think about it.

Right after we saw the Bigfoot, my son and daughter-in-law had twins. Long story short, one died after open heart surgery. We were in no mood to buy anything. A couple months passed. The Canadian dollar went way up. Now a new 25B25RQ is selling for $45,000 USD from a local dealer. I talked it over with my wife and said, ya know, if you want a bigger trailer we had better see if that one is still available. We're not going to be able to earn that much extra money to buy new in 2009 and it is just like new.

So I called him up and he said he had a buyer coming over Christmas to look/buy it. I said to him, "Isn't a bird in the hand worth two in the bush? I'll send you $1,000 today and pay the balance when I pick it up." He agreed and I bought the trailer.

Now I had to drive to Washington New Years in the snow over the Siskiyous, and Black Mountain Pass with chains on to get it. We made it through and the pass got 10' of snow after we got through. No easy task for a warm, sunny, California guy, but I did it, and I got to see my dad again.

Why am I telling you all this? Because you have a burr in your saddle about every other brand of Fiberglass RV other then Scamp. Scamps are fine trailers. They are just not the only trailer and do not fit my or everyones needs.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I am not selling nor try to sell anyone else on Bigfoot. Do I feel like I'm King-of-the-Hill as you put it. How obsurd.

Please Get Over Your narrow minded focus. This website is about and for ALL brands.
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