Other FGRV's and trailers

[McClure]

I was down at PPL(used RV retailer that sells 1300 units a year) in Houston on Saturday and ran into a guy that had a 2008 3000 series Bigfoot Truck camper($52,000 @ 18'4"=$236 an inch). He was from Washington State and when he got home he was taking it back for repairs to his floor because they had cut too large of a hole for his toilet and had to replace part of the floor deck. He said when he gets there he is going to tell them to keep it. He had a 2005 before and it was great so he traded up to this new 2008 and wished he had kept the 2005. He told me that Bigfoot got a big head and thought they were number one and didn't much have very good customer service or quality control. Among other things, the pull handle that you use to get up into the camper came off in their hands because they didn't put in the reinforcement within the wall to support the handle.

I only mentioned the above truck camper because I talked to the owner but if anyone is interested a Bigfoot 2500 Series 17.5 trailer is about $160 an inch.

Come to think of it when I was at last years Bluebonnet there was a gentleman there that had a new Airstream Safari or Bambi($49,000 @ 16'=$255 an inch) that said he had a lot of problems with it and was pretty darn dissatisfied.

Do you think that these folks are anymore critical of their trailers then I am of my Scamp($22,000 @ 19'=$96 an inch) because they paid so much more then we did?

There is a bunch to be said in brand name as far as marketing, price and value. Sometimes its the brand only that makes so much money and not the true quality. There are some folks out there that truly are not happy unless they pay the most to give them that king of the hill feeling. In some ways you may get a "little" better quality with much "bigger" price where the math just don't make sense. As a consumer I would rather have it the other way around. It sure seems to me that the price and quality I am getting with my Scamp is very adequate and in my calculations sure adds up to be a better value.

Maybe there are some FGRV'ers out there that has experience with these other 2 trailers that may shed some light on the subject. I will admit that my experience and exposure to these other RV manufacturers is limited.

What do you think?

All above numbers are estimates, all trailers of the same manufacturer are not created equal.

Blair

[Chester Taje]

Now that is a interesting way to look at prices.

[Frederick L. Simson]

Of course, the used market looks like chicken feed in comparison.

In 2004 I paid $1,450.00 for my 1978 Fiber Stream. With all the repairs I have made since, I consider that the down payment.

16' x 12" = 192"

$1,450 / 192" = $7.55 per inch. Now I can afford that!

[Greg A]

This looks fun:

$3K for my 81 13 Scamp when I bought it.
Unimproved: 3000/156=$19.23 an inch
About $6k total in it
Improved: 6000/156=$38.46 an inch

Looks like Scamp inches are more expensive than Fiber Stream, but still chicken feed going used.

[Bigfoot Mike]

I just bought a B25RQ for $93.33/in.

The Bigfoot is a BIG trailer with a BIG price, but still per foot similar and you get an insulated four season trailer with many amenities. To me, the real cost is about resale value.
<blockquote>SIDE NOTE
Having run this website for many years, ALL brands, from time to time, have issues. Some times it's owner, some times it's the unit, and sometimes it's how the factory deals with the problem. The factory responce is often subject to customer's attitude.</blockquote>

[Gina D.]

My 17 footer, just based on purchase price, fully dressed, $24 per sq. inch.

In contrast, my 13, based just on purchase price, $23 per sq. inch

How do they do it? Volume!

[Byron Kinnaman]

My 17 footer, just based on purchase price, fully dressed, $24 per sq. inch.

In contrast, my 13, based just on purchase price, $23 per sq. inch

How do they do it? Volume!

Sq. Inch??

To put that in linear inches, the same scale as everybody else is using that would make it (assuming 8' wide trailer) $184 per in.

Bet you didn't know you had such an expensive trailer?

[GeorgeR]

I just finalized the order for 2008 Bigfoot 21RB trailer for $130/in. Trailer is loaded with options except Onan generator and the new for 2008 front storage. Adding the extra 2’ long storage would drop the price to $127/inch. Still steep but considering tumbling US currency and 1989’ inflation rate I am glad I got it.

George.

[Mike D]

I just finalized the order for 2008 Bigfoot 21RB trailer for $130/in. Trailer is loaded with options except Onan generator and the new for 2008 front storage. Adding the extra 2’ long storage would drop the price to $127/inch. Still steep but considering tumbling US currency and 1989’ inflation rate I am glad I got it.

George.

Add the Onan and the 2' storage and it goes to around $135/linear inch - mine arrives in March . Considering those factors you mentioned George (currency exchange and inflation rates) I'd better start paying attention to the Full-Timing board! I might be living in the thing when it arrives.

Mike D

[Roger H]

Blair, there are a number of reasons to buy a specific brand and size of trailer. I've had six Airstreams since 1987, and I've now had two Bigfoot trailers, an '04 15B17CB and now my '06 25B25RQ. I've also had four Scamps, a Trillium, a UHaul, a Burro, and a Love Bug II. They all had various issues. Without a doubt, this '06 Bigfoot 25' I have now has the best fit and finish of any of the trailers I've owned; perhaps with the exception of the interior of the '94 Airstream 34' tri-axle... but the headliner was coming apart on it when I sold it last year, a common problem for mid-90s Airstreams.

I have heard of a couple of other Bigfoot truck campers that had fit and finish issues, and I have to wonder if it's not attributable to one or two folks working on that specific model as the trailers have had very few reports of those kind of issues. My 25' had a repair punch-list of a whopping seven items when I bought it; and all were minor enough that they were all fixed in a couple of hours.

Roger

[Mike D]

... There are some folks out there that truly are not happy unless they pay the most to give them that king of the hill feeling.
Blair

Blair,
It's not necessarily a king-of-the-hill feeling that folks are looking for. In my case, I don't have the experience that many of the folks here have with RVing; and I'm reluctant to spend the limited amount of free time that I have gaining that experience in any way that's harder than it has to be. So going with a brand (e.g., Bigfoot) that seems to be (after a bit of research that includes rejecting Airstream and listening to the undercurrent of wisdom on this site) high quality is hopefully worth the additional expense.

There is the very real risk that the $ doesn't buy what I'm after. For example, I ordered the integrated Onan generator because I figure that Bigfoot knows power requirements of a typical user better than I do and that way I don't have to spend the time figuring out capacities and designing a monitor/control system. That might turn out to be not true. But I'm gonna have fun finding out, and I won't get too angry if it's not perfect.

That said, the verdict is still out on the "buy-premium-with-most-all-the-options" approach (it's worked for me in the past). I wouldn't recommend my approach to anyone other than someone situated the same as me, and the jury is still out on whether it'll work with RVs.

Guess I'm just spouting this stuff to see what, if any, reaction it gets - and then learn from the reaction.

Mike

[McClure]

All I was trying to do was put a value on perceived quality or quality relative to price and name brands. I am sure that BF and Airstream have an over whelming number of consumers that have had very little if no quality issues just like many of the other trailer manufacturers. But does the perceived name brands or name brand actually provide that 50% better quality or is it 20% quality and 30% brand? I really don't know what the true percentages are on the above manufacturers verses all of the other equally equipped trailers, I just threw those out there for argument sake.

The below example brand is just one of many that is purely upside down in its value, price and quality in my opinion.

Take for instance the brand name Harley Davidson. You can purchase a Japanese bike that will run circles around a Harley and last twice as long. Americans probably more then most other country by shear percentages versus population are victims of brand names and king of the hill feelings just because of the tremendous amount of diversity,choices and expendable money available.

Blair

PS: The BF 3000 camper owner had also told me that they wanted $150 extra to leave off their logo and $200 for shipping his camper to him without a mattress. He said excuse me do you really want my business.

Have you ever noticed that the BF Owners Club International doesn't have a forum?

[Roger H]

I have to wonder what would motivate someone to plop down $52K for a truck camper anyway. I paid only slightly more than half that last spring for my '01 Born Free 23' motorhome on an E450 chassis with 64k miles to tow my Bigfoot! I have only slightly more in BOTH the Bigfoot and Born Free than what that pickup camper cost!

Actually Blair, one of the really excellent features of Bigfoot is their resale. While they may be expensive out of the box, their retained value (at least in the U.S.) is excellent; partially because of the features they offer that no one else does, and partially because of their relative rarity on the used market. My '06 25RQ has only depreciated $4k according to NADA in two years. As a practical matter, I could still ask what I paid for it and get it since the pricing of the new units has risen substantially in the past two years. It was also interesting trying to finance the trailer originally, as one of my credit unions told me they couldn't finance the trailer because it was "over priced" per NADA even though it was new from the dealership, and even though it had nearly a $10k discount from the sticker as a year-end unit. Figure THAT one out! Our dealer told us that happens regularly with Bigfoot units. I'm not sure why.

These units, while expensive, still may not be "perfect" as they continue to be hand-built unlike autos that are pretty much all assembled by robots. The factory and dealer's response to repair issues are whats important and what sold me on Bigfoot. While at the Bigfoot Owner's Club Int'l Rally in Rapid City SD in Sept. '06 with my '04 15B17CB 17' trailer, I had the opportunity to see the factory folks in operation. They went coach to coach and either repaired or made arrangements to repair any issues any owners had with their coaches, in warranty or not, and at no charge. They were busy for about 18 hours/day for three days working on folks' coaches. That service is what caused me to buy my new 25' from a dealer on the way home over the phone, sight-unseen. I sold the 34' Airstream pretty quickly for a little more than I paid for it three years earlier.

BTW, the Bigfoot Owner's Club Int'l forums are here: BOCI Forums, but you either have to be a member of the club or join as a "guest" to use the forums.

Roger

[McClure]

Roger, do you think this Scamp costs $11,400 in 1986 which the selling price is today in 2008?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/rvs/527352593.html
Blair

Actually Blair, one of the really excellent features of Bigfoot is their resale.
Roger

[Roger H]

(For posterity, and once the Craigslist listing is gone... here are photos of the unit Blair is discussing




Blair,

It's undoubtedly a nice unit, but you have to remember that the asking price isn't the same as the selling price. One unit does not a trend make, and merely that they're asking an amount for a specific unit doesn't mean they'll get it. That's a $4k unit any way you slice it. But still, $4k for a twenty year old trailer that sold new for $8k is pretty good. They may find someone who'll buy it at their asking price for it's novelty, but they're asking way more than the market value for that trailer. They've painted this one silver to capitalize on the Airstream craze... despite the custom work, it's still only a painted Scamp fiver, and an old one at that...

I like Scamps. I like Scamps a lot. I've had four of them, two 13s, a 16 CD, and a 19 CD and did well with them when I sold them. Of all of the trailers I've had (including my Airstreams), I probably miss my 16' CD the most. However, it didn't have an 80" queen island bed, a full-size shower I can stand in (at 6'5" tall) and have 4" over my head yet, a full couch and table, nor did it have the full winter insulation package including dual thermopane windows and heated tanks; all items that are very important to me now... and I got them in my Bigfoot in a 25' package that is only about 2,000 lbs heavier than the Scamp 16 was (comparing as-equipped curb weights). As a matter of fact, the 25B25RQ is the only molded fiberglass trailer on the market with those features... at any price. The difficulty factor of making a 25' mold over a 16' mold must be incredible. The fit and finish and choice of interior materials on my two were superior to any of the other molded fiberglass trailers I've owned. All those features come at a price, I expected that to be the case, and I was prepared to pay that price for what I wanted in a molded fiberglass trailer. That's also why Bigfoot commands a premium price on the used market. They offer features no other FGRV offers, and they're still relatively rare used in the U.S. For me, both of mine were a good value for my dollar. For others who have different expectations, it may not be. That's why trailers are built that fit all price points.

Certainly fiberglass trailers in general retain their value much better than just about anything else out there... and just try to find a twenty year old stick built anything that's worth owning!

Roger

[Suz]

I agree with Roger. The asking price is not the selling price. I don't think the silver paint on the Scamp 5th wheel does it justice, but that's just me.

All of our fiberglass trailers, if well maintained, will do well. Besides, I personally don't make a purchase based on resale value. I maintain it with resale in mind, but I purchase something because it suits MY needs and it's something that I will enjoy.

Either way you go, small or large, there is a sacrifice in one area or another. I'm just glad that those who need more space have an option of going bigger and still stay in molded fiberglass. Who knows, that might even be me someday.

[McClure]

Here is a 18 year old Bigfoot that they are asking $7500 for and with your analogy it is definitely only worth $3000 dollars, remember $7500 is only the asking price. I am still trying to figure out where BF's hold their value better then any of the other FG trailers as eluded to numerous times by moderators and owners of this website. Especially when the BF can have the same tendencies as stickies because they have a wooden wall structure where they could pond water without anyone knowing it or being able to see it.

Hey to each his own I guess, and we all can substantiate and be very happy with what ever the price to real quality is in our trailers.

Blair

It's undoubtedly a nice unit, but you have to remember that the asking price isn't the same as the selling price. One unit does not a trend make, and merely that they're asking an amount for a specific unit doesn't mean they'll get it. That's a $4k unit any way you slice it. But still, $4k for a twenty year old trailer that sold new for $8k is pretty good.
Roger

[Roger H]

Here is a 18 year old Bigfoot that they are asking $7500 for and with your analogy it is definitely only worth $3000 dollars, remember $7500 is only the asking price. I am still trying to figure out where BF's hold their value better then any of the other FG trailers as eluded to numerous times by moderators and owners of this website.

Blair

Ok, Blair...

This is pretty basic, and I'd presume you would know this, but selling prices trend. You can gauge the market value of a trailer by what similar units have sold for in the recent past, just as comps are done in real estate. I don't think I've seen any Bigfoot sell for less than $5k over the past three years, and most that age sell in the $7500 range. The owner of that Bigfoot will probably get his $7500 asking price, or close to it as that's what the market price on it is. Scamp 19' trailers OTOH are all over the map, depending on age and amenities, with most from the mid '80s going for $4k to $5k again depending on the actual condition (which is more important than age). As a comparison, an early 2000s Scamp 19 will go for around $12k to $15k +/- again depending on condition and options.

I based my opinion of the value of the Scamp against what I've seen similar age Scamps 19s sell for in the past couple of years. The silver one has a market value of $4k to $5k. That doesn't mean he'll not get his asking price, it's just priced higher than other trailers that age and condition that have sold. I don't know where you came up with the $3,000 value for the Bigfoot. [b]I'd buy it for $3k!

Here is a 18 year old Bigfoot that they are asking $7500 Especially when the BF can have the same tendencies as stickies because they have a wooden wall structure where they could pond water without anyone knowing it or being able to see it.

Blair

And perhaps you should read this post and this post regarding the structure of the Bigfoot. You sound as though perhaps you're making some assumptions that aren't necessarily accurate.

Roger

[McClure]

I had already read those posts. My assumption was that BF's have a complete encompassing interior wall unlike most of the other FGRV. True they all have interior wooden support structures but the others dont have complete interior walls that cover the whole inside of the fiberglass shell.

Blair

Ok, Blair...

And perhaps you should read this post and this post regarding the structure of the Bigfoot. You sound as though perhaps you're making some assumptions that aren't necessarily accurate.

Roger

[Greg A]

I don't think I've seen any Bigfoot sell for less than $5k over the past three years, and most that age sell in the $7500 range. [b]I'd buy it for $3k!

Just had a Bigfoot 18 go on eBay that was listed in our referrals section. Final price was $3800. Fortunately, one of our members snagged it. Saw one or two this summer go in that range as well.