Palomini Fiberglass camper

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Skytalker

I think I will keep my Casita. I have been well pleased so far. Thanks for everyone's input.

You've survived your first attack of 4'-itis!

I did think of you when I saw this ad: http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...0-a-72448.html
It would be a fair bit heavier than either your Casita or the PaloMini you were considering and might require a tow vehicle upgrade. Bigfoots are high quality molded fiberglass trailers. I believe the 21'er has a dry bath, a rarity in molded fiberglass, and nice if you will spend long periods in the trailer. You don't see these very often, especially on the East Coast.

[Lora]

We looked at Scamp, Casita, and Boler, but my husband felt claustrophobic in them - he's 6'3. I bought our '89 17' Bigfoot Gaucho in 2013 and we couldn't be happier. Plenty of room for both of us to be up and moving about without stepping on toes. We have a 3'x5' carpet the covers the center floor of our trailer. The 17' Bigfoot is 3500 lbs. gross weight.

[Pam Garlow]

Originally Posted by Ken C

"You just aren't going to see that with stickies..."

Yet, Tin can tourists and sister on the fly enjoy their vintage stickies every day

I camp with Tin Can Tourists and you can't compare the vintage rigs with today's stick builts. The vintage trailers were made with real wood, real birch paneling, aluminum skins, metal trim rails, vents, etc etc. Not laminated pressed board and plastic like today's stickies.
My list, in order of preference:
1. A 30+ year old Molded fiberglass (I have a 1985 UHaul
2. A 40-50 year old restored vintage trailer (1950's-60's models)
3. A 40-50 year old un-restored vintage trailer
199. A new stick built trailer.

[Jon in AZ]

I like your list, Pam, but I think I might insert a vintage Airstream in there somewhere (below #1, of course).

But since I don't have the skill set to do a major restoration myself or the money to buy a fully restored vintage anything, I'll probably stick with my newer Scamp for the foreseeable future and focus my energy on making sure it never needs a restoration.

[Zennifer]

We just switched from a 1964 canned ham to a scamp...fighting the water damage already there, which was going to require a skin off total frame rebuild, despite looking pretty decent, plus the knowledge of what kind of maintenance I would have to do to KEEP it watertight made us switch.

[Civilguy]

I have spent more time than I would care to admit looking into various trailers. We live in Washington State and locally receive about 50-inches of rain a year. I currently park our Casita outdoors without any cover, though a carport is on my wish-list. So, having a trailer that was watertight was my absolute No. 1, 2 and 3 priorities.

Having used a teardrop trailer for a time, I was intrigued by the Palomini and the similar R-Pod. The newer R-Pod model 179 with a slide was particularly seductive in terms of addressing twofootitis. Looking at the R-Pod owner forums I got the impression that there were problems of various sorts (I don't recall the specifics anymore) but that Forest River was being stand-up and appeared to be doing a good job of trying to address problems and concerns overall.

I also ran across a lengthy R-Pod Owner’s forum thread on Gas Mileage indicating that the owners were experiencing very poor mileage and that the R-Pod would "hit the wall" and generate a great deal of resistance at 55-mph and higher. I don't know how objective this was, but the thread became quite lengthy at 21 pages with a lot of interesting posts.

I have also looked into a number of trailers with welded-aluminum wall and roof frames with vacuum-laminated panel construction. Unfortunately, there is an intrinsic problem with any design that includes a square corner such as the junction between a paneled wall and roof. The problem is that forces (stress) concentrate at sharp corners. Trailers are subject to many racking forces and this concentration of stress at corners tends to deform or pull apart the joints. This makes it very challenging to seal the corners.

This is a blessing of the molded-fiberglass design. The corners generally have a radius in all planes. So, while fiberglass trailer owners enjoy the seal-less construction of the molded body, we also enjoy the benefits of these lower stresses which allow for lighter and more efficient construction. This principal also applies to openings in the shell such as doorways, window openings, etc. That’s why you usually see a radius at the corners of windows and doors. (The square opening at the bottom of a doorway is generally “braced” by the trailer’s frame.)

My focus when I was researching trailers was the 2,000 to 4,000-pound range. For those that remain intrigued by the concept of a “larger-small-trailer” and are looking for “better” quality construction in a stickie, I suggest looking into anything made by Livin’ Lite, Winnebago’s Micro-Minnie, Gulfstream’s Vista Cruiser, and Venture RV’s Sonic and Sonic Lite lineups. It also looks like Pacific Coachworks Mighty Lite trailers were recently changed to higher-quality construction for 2016.

Mind you, I have not researched these exhaustively, and have not even seen a couple of them “in the flesh”. Construction methods often change over time. Construction methods also sometimes vary for different for models within the same lineup. As with all things, Caveat Emptor, let the buyer beware.

[hwdornbush]

Originally Posted by Zennifer

We just switched from a 1964 canned ham to a scamp...fighting the water damage already there, which was going to require a skin off total frame rebuild, despite looking pretty decent, plus the knowledge of what kind of maintenance I would have to do to KEEP it watertight made us switch.

I am with you. We switched from a 1968 Aristocrat to a new Escape 19. We loved the Aristocrat and had done extensive restoration, but I could see that it would be an ongoing need and I wanted to camp, not repair.

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by Pam Garlow

I camp with Tin Can Tourists and you can't compare the vintage rigs with today's stick builts. The vintage trailers were made with real wood, real birch paneling, aluminum skins, metal trim rails, vents, etc etc. Not laminated pressed board and plastic like today's stickies.
My list, in order of preference:
1. A 30+ year old Molded fiberglass (I have a 1985 UHaul
2. A 40-50 year old restored vintage trailer (1950's-60's models)
3. A 40-50 year old un-restored vintage trailer
199. A new stick built trailer.

Here ya go then, Pam, a super low price on this unrestored vintage trailer for only $550, that would fall under your #3. Vintage Aljoa Camper
The ad says, "IT NEEDS EVERYTHING."

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

CLIP
I have also looked into a number of trailers with welded-aluminum wall and roof frames with vacuum-laminated panel construction. Unfortunately, there is an intrinsic problem with any design that includes a square corner such as the junction between a paneled wall and roof. The problem is that forces (stress) concentrate at sharp corners. Trailers are subject to many racking forces and this concentration of stress at corners tends to deform or pull apart the joints. This makes it very challenging to seal the corners.

This is a blessing of the molded-fiberglass design. The corners generally have a radius in all planes. So, while fiberglass trailer owners enjoy the seal-less construction of the molded body, we also enjoy the benefits of these lower stresses which allow for lighter and more efficient construction. This principal also applies to openings in the shell such as doorways, window openings, etc. That’s why you usually see a radius at the corners of windows and doors. (The square opening at the bottom of a doorway is generally “braced” by the trailer’s frame.)

My focus when I was researching trailers was the 2,000 to 4,000-pound range. For those that remain intrigued by the concept of a “larger-small-trailer” and are looking for “better” quality construction in a stickie, I suggest looking into anything made by Livin’ Lite, Winnebago’s Micro-Minnie, Gulfstream’s Vista Cruiser, and Venture RV’s Sonic and Sonic Lite lineups. It also looks like Pacific Coachworks Mighty Lite trailers were recently changed to higher-quality construction for 2016.

Mind you, I have not researched these exhaustively, and have not even seen a couple of them “in the flesh”. Construction methods often change over time. Construction methods also sometimes vary for different for models within the same lineup. As with all things, Caveat Emptor, let the buyer beware.

The real problem is that square corners and edges will LEAK and once water gets in, it's "Bob's your Uncle" for unlimited repairs. Many, if not all of the ones you mentioned all have nice square corners & edges. No Thanks.....

[WaltP]

"Bob's your Uncle"???

[Pam Garlow]

I'll take a molded fiberglass trailer, hands down, over any other construction method. They are just too practical and low maintenance to shift away from. If I need more room, I'll get a bigger FG trailer. I have not seen anything in the newer models of 'stick built' trailer that I would want to purchase. But there are many owners that love their 'stickies' and good for them if the are camping and making memories. Its nice that there is so much to choose from. Its not which one is 'better', but which one is better for you and your lifestyle.
For me, its fiberglass all the way.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by WaltP

"Bob's your Uncle"???

"Cry uncle" = surrender.
You're at the mercy of continual leak repairs.

[stude]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

You've survived your first attack of 4'-itis!

I did think of you when I saw this ad: http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...0-a-72448.html
It would be a fair bit heavier than either your Casita or the PaloMini you were considering and might require a tow vehicle upgrade. Bigfoots are high quality molded fiberglass trailers. I believe the 21'er has a dry bath, a rarity in molded fiberglass, and nice if you will spend long periods in the trailer. You don't see these very often, especially on the East Coast.

:Yep they overstocked and got stuck with a lot of inventory being shipped back to them. So they shut the plant down and are now just starting up with some of the old employees building campers for trucks, you folks in the us called a Camper a canopy and in Canada is just a cover over the box which is called a Canopy with smallish either lift up rear door or full back with door in it but only go either cab level or 6-8" above the Cab.
Stude

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by WaltP

"Bob's your Uncle"???

It's British/Canadian for "Easy-Peasy".....

Why do we say 'Bob's your Uncle'? | Learn English

[Jon in AZ]

Well, I just learned a new one! Sorry to mislead, and thanks for the education!

[WaltP]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

It's British/Canadian for "Easy-Peasy".....

Why do we say 'Bob's your Uncle'? | Learn English

Well this Canadian has never heard/seen that before.

Walt

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Well, I just learned a new one! Sorry to mislead, and thanks for the correction!

What you said is also true, if you have a sticky you will soon be crying "Uncle" WHEN, (not IF) the leaks start

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

The real problem is that square corners and edges will LEAK and once water gets in, it's "Bob's your Uncle" for unlimited repairs. Many, if not all of the ones you mentioned all have nice square corners & edges. No Thanks.....

Yes, perhaps I should have made it clearer that ALL the units I mentioned have square corners.

If you really want to get in touch with your inner geek, racking forces lead to concentrated stresses (force per unit area) at corners which cause strain (deformation, distortion). When the corners are deformed or distorted, even if the panels don't fail you are totally dependent on the qualities of the gaskets and the "pooky" (jobsite term for caulking and liquid-applied sealants).

Seals and gaskets degrade over time; what doesn't fail immediately will typically fail eventually. Even molded fiberglass trailers require replacement of AC gaskets and other sealing materials periodically. However, any water damage is generally much more limited, and (re)sealing can usually be accomplished much more readily.

This, in a nutshell, is why there are so many people living happily ever in the peaceful land of molded fiberglass trailers. And, thanks to "Uncle Bob" for keeping it simple here! (Sorry Bob, just couldn't resist!)

On the other hand, if I had a carport and was able to keep my rig dry between journeys, I'd be willing to look further into other alternatives. So, maybe that's a good choice for someone else too...

[Mike Magee]

I thought "easy-peasy" was Oregonian!

[Roger H]

To add a little confusion here... fiberglass trailers leak as well, and can be equally damaged as stickies if not properly maintained. Posts on leaks are legion here. The problem isn't that trailers leak, it's that trailer owners fail to maintain them properly.

My last fg trailer was my '06 Bigfoot 25RQ that was essentially maintenance-and-trouble free until 2013. I was cleaning it and got on the roof to find that the sealant used for the through-hulls was checked and cracked and well on its way to leaking... so off to Kramer's Kampers in Chicagoland it went. Pete Kramer had his guys reseal all of the through-hulls on the roof for me, and it should be good for another eight to ten years for its new owner.

There are some amazingly well built "sticky" trailers out there... you just have to be discriminatory while shopping. I bought a holdover '11 mpg 19' in 2012 that used bonded fiberglass panels over aluminum framing. It had a 2700lb curb weight and a 170 lb tongue weight witha 3500lb gvwr. It was one of the best-built travel trailers I've ever owned, period. It was a Heartland rip-off of the R-Pod, but so incredibly much better built as to put Forest River to shame. The top/front/rear was a single sheet of fiberglass. The only seams were the through-hulls and of course where the top and sides joined. I had it for three years and had absolutely no maintenance issues. Annual monitoring of the condition of the seam caulk would ensure that there won't BE any leak issues either. Stickies have come a long way in the past ten years; provided that you're looking at quality construction to begin with.

Born Free mohos are stick-built wood under fiberglass panels, and it amazes me how many are for sale from the '80s in good, usable condition. Having the experience with the Bigfoot roof caulk, I just took the Born Free back to the factory for all of the roof caulk to be removed and replaced as it's nine years old, and it was time.

Most fiberglass trailers should have that done at about the same interval to avoid leaks.

We're no longer in the '70s when all stickies were tin over wood frames that lasted about five years. There are some high-quality stick-built trailers out there that you can expect to see the same kind of life out of them as we see out of molded fiberglass trailers. You just have to look for the construction features that will give them that kind of longevity.