Parkliner changes - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 06-30-2017, 06:14 PM   #29
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I do not see how an air space can produce less condensation than an insulated space. Condensation results from inside humidity contacting a colder wall. Insulation prevents heat loss better than hollow air space of the same width. So an insulated inner wall will be less affected by outside cold temps than an uninsulated wall. I do not know if the space is wide enough between hulls, but if it were 1.5" and filled with polyurethane (sprayed into place) virtually all condensation would be eliminated.

If air space were so great at stopping heat loss, we would all be able to forego house insulation in favor of massive double-pane windows.
Unless the space is heated? Don't know but just guessing.
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Old 06-30-2017, 06:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mike Magee View Post
I do not see how an air space can produce less condensation than an insulated space. Condensation results from inside humidity contacting a colder wall. Insulation prevents heat loss better than hollow air space of the same width. So an insulated inner wall will be less affected by outside cold temps than an uninsulated wall. I do not know if the space is wide enough between hulls, but if it were 1.5" and filled with polyurethane (sprayed into place) virtually all condensation would be eliminated.

If air space were so great at stopping heat loss, we would all be able to forego house insulation in favor of massive double-pane windows.
I tend to agree with this. The biggest factor in insulating the interior walls would be the type and thickness of the insulation material between the hulls, not an air gap between them. Generally, the thicker the insulation the design allows, the better the insulation would be.

If there's no conductivity of cold to the interior fiberglass wall, there's no condensation.
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Old 06-30-2017, 07:10 PM   #31
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We took a tour of the Oliver plant in Tennessee last Tuesday the 27th. Very impressed. Well-built trailer. Oliver has an air space between the double hulls. If Parkliner is filling their entire space with insulation then that will be a deal breaker for me. If the insulation touches both hulls it will conduct moisture and eventually we will have rot or mold or something. Does anyone know the answer to this because if there is an air space I agree, Look out Ollie!
I know nothing about either of these trailers, but as a general principle - assuming the inner hull acts as a vapor barrier (eg fiberglass) an air space in the gap will reduce condensation on the inner walls somewhat, but insulation in the gap will be far superior. For example, because an open air space is not a very good insulator the best quality double or triple glazed windows use argon or other gasses in the space. Since the wall of the rv doesn't require transparency, the gap is best filled with an insulating material to eliminate the tendency of the air to create circulation cells and transfer the heat from the inner to the outer hulls. There should be no condensation (or "conducting of moisture") in the insulation unless there are leaks in the either the inner or outer hull. Sounds to me that Parkliner is on the right track, though I would want the insulation to be of a closed cell variety since one can never totally prevent all leaks.
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Old 07-01-2017, 04:46 AM   #32
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Aaah... the Great Toilet Debate!

So far my wife wife has vetoed the concept of any kind of toilet in a small trailer, so it's an academic (but highly entertaining and occasionally informative) conversation to me.

As far as I know, Lil Snoozy in the only molded fiberglass manufacturer offering a cassette toilet option. I believe it was originally in Robert Johans' vision for the Nest trailer, but as far as I know Airstream has not revealed what they plan to offer.

Lines at the dump station... really, a minor issue solved by avoiding peak check-out times, and as already mentioned, what are you going to do about grey water?

Ha, ha! It seems any time I post something on this forum, I get pulled into the great cassette toilet debate! Gray water would get dumped with a hose instead of the slinky. I guess you could use the dump station but I'd prefer either a sink drain or home drain. Although I've not used Eco friendly shampoo or dish cleaner, I've heard if using these products, you can dump gray in the garden! Perhaps that will be my next research project. I'll grow tomatoes with gray water!
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:15 AM   #33
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I am such a newbie that I don't even know what a slinky is. And I am not debating anything. Even the air space. But it makes sense to me to have an airspace AND insulation based on over forty years in the construction biz. I personally would not take a chance on solid insulation. But that's me.
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:19 AM   #34
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I've never been in a line to dump my tanks. Maybe because I avoid overcrowded campgrounds.
Being / waiting in line is rather a subjective term . If one person is ahead of my wife when checking out in the store then she got
STUCK in line . Kinda like making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Having experienced the aftermath of people attempting to dump their cassette toilets into a pit privy , I will gladly wait my turn at the dump station
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:49 AM   #35
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Having experienced the aftermath of people attempting to dump their cassette toilets into a pit privy , I will gladly wait my turn at the dump station
Exactly. Yuck. Just yuck.
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:57 AM   #36
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Parkliner changes

Seems to me the problem with dumping grey water on your garden at home is having to carry all that extra weight on the way. I would want to dump it before leaving camp, and there aren't too many ways to do that except a dump station. Whether you use a garden hose or an expandable RV sewer hose ("stinky slinky") is secondary.

So then, if you have to visit the dump station anyway, why not just deal with the toilet there, too? At least that's how my thinking goes.

Michael, I used the word "debate" jokingly, and I'm certainly not trying to start one! There have been a number of threads about toilets and waste disposal that became quite... well... passionate. I hope this round we can stick to facts and respectfully advanced opinions.

I, too, am interested in what kind of insulation Parkliner will use between the inner and outer hull. Does anyone know what Oliver uses?
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:12 AM   #37
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Exactly. Yuck. Just yuck.
Several of the parks in our area public and private only allow the dumping of cassette toilets at the dump station. Pit toilets and restrooms are not intended for or designed for this purpose.
According to one Park Ranger I spoke with they have had people attempt to dump their cassette toilets in restroom sinks and shower stalls . The fault lies not with the cassette toilet , an inatimate object but with careless / thoughtless individuals
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:23 AM   #38
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I agree Steve, but it sets up a problem which doesn't need to exist. I'm still baffled as to how it's "better". Handling human waste by hand dumping it from a container? Nope, not me.

Now, I have seen some composting toilets used by folks who camp for extended periods, and I find them a workable solution. But the porta potties and cassette containers not so much.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:36 AM   #39
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Unfortunately, not many here in US. Barefoot caravans will be brought to the states from UK. I'll need to go back in time to see which of the fiberglass manufacturers have them available. The Nest (now Airstream) was one. In the past few months I've been looking at Class B's and most of them can be modified to have a cassette. They are becoming more popular in that group. I'm finding that the price is too high for me so I'm back to the trailer hunt.

I've attached a photo of a cassette in a Sprinter. Cool!
The NEST has a PORTA-POTTY, not a cassette toilet. Airstream has said, when in production, the NEST will have a regular plumbed toilet, with a black tank.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:38 AM   #40
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Seems to me the problem with dumping grey water on your garden at home is having to carry all that extra weight on the way. I would want to dump it before leaving camp, and there aren't too many ways to do that except a dump station. Whether you use a garden hose or an expandable RV sewer hose ("stinky slinky") is secondary.

So then, if you have to visit the dump station anyway, why not just deal with the toilet there, too? At least that's how my thinking goes.

Michael, I used the word "debate" jokingly, and I'm certainly not trying to start one! There have been a number of threads about toilets and waste disposal that became quite... well... passionate. I hope this round we can stick to facts and respectfully advanced opinions.

I, too, am interested in what kind of insulation Parkliner will use between the inner and outer hull. Does anyone know what Oliver uses?


Actually I was referring more to the insulation double hull "conversation". I wouldn't pretend to know ANYTHING about black water or gray, toilets versus others, and am extremely interested in that "debate". If having a composting toilet still requires me to go to a campground I am trying to avoid then flush it is.
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:12 AM   #41
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I, too, am interested in what kind of insulation Parkliner will use between the inner and outer hull. Does anyone know what Oliver uses?
This man can show us...

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Old 07-01-2017, 09:30 AM   #42
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Thanks, Mike. That's kind of what I thought- looks like Reflectix or something similar- and I expect Parkliner will do the same.
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