Passing behemoth Class A Motor Homes - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-14-2015, 11:49 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Name: Peter
Trailer: G30 Elite Class C
British Columbia
Posts: 1,034
Bend in the middle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf S. View Post
Hi: stude... Our entire rig is less than 1/2 what a Vista 27N cost, and when we get to Florida and unhook we have our EFI V6 to take us shopping.
Happy wife, happy life!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
: I hear U Alf, but the wife likes the MH and drives like she is in a Nascar Race. She just does not trust my driving for long periods of time and refuses to go to sleep when I drive as I have picked up a old man's bad habit of dozing while driving.
Seems I sleep better then!
I have had two Nissans and I only like the 1978 Version with 5spd, 4cyl. I also had for work a 2004 Nissan almost brand new and it got worse mpg than the Dodge Dakota did.
My favourite is the Toyota trucks but the problem is they have gotten way to big and to high off the ground for me, but If I could find a 225 slant 6 WIth a 5spd or automatic in a older Dodge 200 or 1/2 ton or a Ford 4.9L inline 6 with 5spd or automatic I could get happy driving again.
But Alf you have the right idea with gas getting higher and higher we have to start thinking smaller.
For the life of me I cannot figure out why the big MH's are still being built very few are in the 28' or shorter, we have 25.6' and it is hard to give it up as it has all the bells and whistles we like to have, plus the Tow'd is a fun car to drive.
Stude
__________________

__________________
stude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2015, 01:07 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Roger H's Avatar
 
Name: Roger
Trailer: Y2K6 Born Free 32RQ on the Kodiak chassis, 1995 Coachmen 19' B-van and 1996 Precision 21' Sailboat
Iowa
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf S. View Post
Hi: stude...
We average 15.5 mpg towing @ 60-62 mph with the V6 Nissan Frontier. Our entire rig is no more than 32 feet long but bends in the middle.
We have no stability issues passing or being passed!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
Quote:
Originally Posted by stude View Post
: right now the one I like the most is Winnebago Vista 27N but they are just to pricey for our pension so well stay with what we have and do the grunt work to make it safer in the wind or the push,pull, drag items that happen out there.
Stude
Quote:
Originally Posted by stude View Post
: I hear U Alf, but the wife likes the MH and drives like she is in a Nascar Race.
But Alf you have the right idea with gas getting higher and higher we have to start thinking smaller.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why the big MH's are still being built very few are in the 28' or shorter, we have 25.6' and it is hard to give it up as it has all the bells and whistles we like to have, plus the Tow'd is a fun car to drive.
Stude
The big mohos are still being built because people buy them... they buy A LOT of them still.

Since 1980, I've owned a veritable parade of trailers, motorhomes and tow vehicles from Scamp 13s and a Dodge Omni up to an Airstream 34' tri-axle trailer and Excursion V10. I had a Bigfoot 25 for nine years that I pulled with a Nissan Titan. I towed a '61 Airstream Bambi with a '98 Astro van. I've had an Airstream 325 moho and now I have a Born Free 32RQ on the Kodiak chassis with the Chevy Vortec 8.1. I've found some basic truths that run counter to the popular thoughts espoused here regularly. I'm going to commit blasphemy here... are you ready? here I go: fuel consumption and subsequently, fuel costs are NOT a significant consideration in owning an RV, regardless of size.

Now that you're gasping in disbelief, and perhaps rage... let me explain:

The physics are pretty simple... it takes X calories of energy to move one gram of mass a certain distance through a vacuum at one gravity. That's it. That's the concept. Now, we throw air in. Moving a mass through air... air causes resistance, so now the shape of the mass determines how much more energy it will take to move it. So, if you're moving 5000 lbs with a small engine and the engine is inefficient and has to work really hard at the top of it's limits, it's sucking down gas at a rate faster than a big engine at idle. If the RV's shape is a cheese-box shape it takes more energy yet, so shape (aerodynamics) matters... some. But not all that much.

Where the real cost in fuel is taken up is how under-powered a vehicle is. Here's some real-world examples... I had a '94 Toyota pickup with a 3.0L V6. It got 18mpg hwy normally, and 13 towing (a small engine that was screaming to tow.) My Excursion with a 6.8L V10 and 3.73 rear end got 17mpg highway... and it didn't care that the trailer was behind it. It had a huge engine that basically idled at highway speed. it was very efficient. My Airstream moho with a 454 and an Allison got about 8mpg. My current Born Free 32' rear queen with the Vortec 8.1 and Allison 5 spd auto gets about 9.5 mpg.

So, let's talk a bit about the actual costs of towing an RV for a season, using the 17mpg and 9.5 mpg extremes. Lets say that the best mileage I ever got was with the Excursion towing a Scamp 16 at 17mph... and my current moho gets 9.5. I drove my Born Free about 7,000 miles this summer. You can argue that you get 22 mpg and that's great, but in the big scheme of things it's only a gain of a few percentage points. Here's the analysis:

I drove my Born Free about 7,000 miles this summer using 736 gallons of gas at 9.5 mpg. Most folks probably only put a couple of thousand miles on their trailer/moho each season, but we'll go with my summer at 7000 miles. I probably averaged about $2.75/gallon during the summer so my total cost for fuel was $2,026. Now, let's say I'd gotten 17mpg for that same 7,000 miles, my total fuel costs would have been about half that, or $1,132, a difference of about $893 for the entire year's travels between 17 and 9.5mpg. If you only drive 2,000 towing a year that amount is reduced to $255 for the year's travels.

Now I'll grant you that almost $900 is a nice chunk of change, but it pales in comparison to what many folks lose annually in finance costs and depreciation between their trailer and tow vehicle. THAT is the true cost of RV ownership; the cost of money and the cost of depreciation. Fuel costs are truly pretty minor. As your tow vehicle ages out, of course, maintenance expenses can begin to come into play also.

The previous owners of MY particular motorhome lost $110,000 to depreciation in 9 years... from the new sticker price to the price I paid. I bought my Bigfoot 25 new, kept it nine years, and while I sold it for almost twice what NADA lists, I still lost almost $12,000 to depreciation and another $3,000 to finance costs... which works out to a loss of about $138 for every month I owned it.

So, the moral to this story, folks... is that as an expense in owning an RV, ANY RV, don't worry about your fuel mileage. Buy your RV at a price that you'll lose the least depreciation and finance as little of it as you can. THOSE are the REAL costs of RV ownership. Choose your RV to be comfortable and meet your needs... match it to your tow vehicle... but just don't get caught up in the mpg race because for most folks who just put a couple of thousand miles a year on their RV, in the bigger picture it just isn't as valid as a financial concern as convention wisdom would dictate; especially for folks who buy new trailers, tow vehicles, and motorhomes.

Roger
__________________

__________________
Roger H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2015, 03:05 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Borrego Dave's Avatar
 
Name: Dave
Trailer: Casita SD17 2006
California
Posts: 2,916
Good post Roger H, I've been saying the same thing for years.
__________________
Borrego Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2015, 03:18 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Cathi's Avatar
 
Name: Cathy
Trailer: Escape 19' sold, 21' August 2015
POBox 1267, Denison, Texas
Posts: 795
Hi, Roger!

You are right on gas. But we do not talk depreciation because our brand new 21' Escape cost a little over $30K (with the value of the dollar, which is even more in favor of Americans in recent months) so we paid cash. Likely would not be doing that with a Born Free.

Being in Iowa also, I have been interested in Born Free, and they look great, roll-over cage and all, but the bottom line is that we paid a lot less plus the savings in gas. We have air conditioning, thermal windows and insulation including underbelly foam spray, solar, inverter for microwave, bath with shower, permanent bed, 4-person dinette that can be made into a bed. So you show me your Born Free some time and we will show you our Escape!

So why would we want a Born Free (and maybe need a toad)? Well, if we had lots of money sitting around and nothing better to do with it, or did not care about borrowing, we might get one. But the fact is, we saved a lot more than gas. And we have one of the biggest fiberglass trailers which has longevity over many of the bigger guys. Oh, and can be sold for near what was paid.
__________________
Cathi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2015, 05:55 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Roger H's Avatar
 
Name: Roger
Trailer: Y2K6 Born Free 32RQ on the Kodiak chassis, 1995 Coachmen 19' B-van and 1996 Precision 21' Sailboat
Iowa
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathi View Post
Hi, Roger!

You are right on gas. But we do not talk depreciation because our brand new 21' Escape cost a little over $30K (with the value of the dollar, which is even more in favor of Americans in recent months) so we paid cash. Likely would not be doing that with a Born Free.

Being in Iowa also, I have been interested in Born Free, and they look great, roll-over cage and all, but the bottom line is that we paid a lot less plus the savings in gas. We have air conditioning, thermal windows and insulation including underbelly foam spray, solar, inverter for microwave, bath with shower, permanent bed, 4-person dinette that can be made into a bed. So you show me your Born Free some time and we will show you our Escape!

So why would we want a Born Free (and maybe need a toad)? Well, if we had lots of money sitting around and nothing better to do with it, or did not care about borrowing, we might get one. But the fact is, we saved a lot more than gas. And we have one of the biggest fiberglass trailers which has longevity over many of the bigger guys. Oh, and can be sold for near what was paid.
Hi Cathi! Thanks for the thoughts. My point wasn't so much the moho vs. trailer thing, or the new vs. used... it was more that gas mileage just doesn't figure in as prominently in the actual cost of ownership of an RV for most folks as do other factors that tend to drain your savings account, yet the first question out of folks when they see my moho is "what kind of mileage does that beast get?" Well, I get... blah blah blah... and they never discuss the actual cost of ownership of this stuff.

Actually, Cathi, I bought my Born Free for pretty much what you paid for your Escape. Although it's nine years old now, it only had 30k miles on it. I'd wanted one of the rear queen 32' coaches ever since I'd seen one new at the factory in Humboldt, but of course they were considerably out of MY price range at the time at $154k. When I found this one for under $40k, I couldn't help myself! The Bigfoot 25 got sold to some friends, and I was back in the motorhome business.

Having had a bunch of trailers, and now my fifth motorhome, what I've come to realize is that trailers are wonderful for going to a destination, and staying a few days. I seldom do that... we travel a lot and use our RV more as a mobile motel room seldom staying in one place more than a night or two. There are certain amenities with a moho that I've also come to appreciate, like having the genset when I want to stop at a rest stop to cook a meal, eat, relax, take a nap (with A/C on) or whatever... and that's more difficult to do while "trailer-ing."

So for me, right now, the moho is a better choice, but as I said I've traveled both ways a LOT since 1980 when I bought my first '76 Scamp.

You're welcome to come and see the Born Free anytime. It's an amazing coach, and I'd LOVE to see your Escape! PM me and we'll chat!

Roger
__________________
Roger H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2015, 08:35 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Cathi's Avatar
 
Name: Cathy
Trailer: Escape 19' sold, 21' August 2015
POBox 1267, Denison, Texas
Posts: 795
I will just say a few words and pm you. That is one fantastic deal on your Born Free! You have me on the A/C at lunch. (But we are solar people, do not want a generator). We do often stop and eat inside but never cook food for lunch. We could use our microwave then if we wanted to heat something though.

You have had so many trailers and MHs and I think once you have more space, it becomes difficult to go to something small. We have only had small. People are used to what they are used to!
__________________
Cathi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2015, 09:45 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Roger H's Avatar
 
Name: Roger
Trailer: Y2K6 Born Free 32RQ on the Kodiak chassis, 1995 Coachmen 19' B-van and 1996 Precision 21' Sailboat
Iowa
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathi View Post
You have had so many trailers and MHs and I think once you have more space, it becomes difficult to go to something small. We have only had small. People are used to what they are used to!
Actually, for the past several years in addition to the Bigfoot 25 i've also kept a 16' to 19' trailer as well; each for different purposes and I used them both regularly. I sold both trailers this summer after I bought the Born Free, but I also have a 19' class B moho... again for different purposes than the 32'.
__________________
Roger H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2015, 10:43 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Cathi's Avatar
 
Name: Cathy
Trailer: Escape 19' sold, 21' August 2015
POBox 1267, Denison, Texas
Posts: 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger H View Post
Actually, for the past several years in addition to the Bigfoot 25 i've also kept a 16' to 19' trailer as well; each for different purposes and I used them both regularly. I sold both trailers this summer after I bought the Born Free, but I also have a 19' class B moho... again for different purposes than the 32'.
I did know that quite a few people have very large units that they spend most of their time in, and they keep a smaller one for running around on short trips. You have had a collection!
__________________
Cathi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2015, 11:09 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Name: Floyd
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
IllAnnoy
Posts: 6,046
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasitaRick View Post
I used to drive an Escape as a company vehicle before I retired, and it handled kind of squirrelly. The short wheelbase, coupled with the front wheel drive, made for some exciting Texas driving. No way would I ever use one as a tow vehicle.
I tow a Scamp13 with a 2008 Escape,(103"wb) very stable and a perfect companion for my trailer. With or without the trailer the car is quiet, comfortable, stable and economical at highway speeds. The new Escape with 106" wheelbase is hardly short for a passenger car. A Crown Victoria is just under 115" (about the same as my regular cab shortbox Ranger).
The short overhang on the Escape helps to make it great for towing a small trailer with a short "wheelbase" like the Scamp13.
If you are used to a car with a dead center, responsive steering can seem a little squirrelly at first.
__________________
floyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2015, 05:08 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
rdickens's Avatar
 
Name: Ray
Trailer: 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe
Missouri
Posts: 504
We tow a Scamp13 with a 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L Ecoboost FWD and have found it very stable.
In addition, we usually get 22-23 mpg towing at 60 mph and 32-34 mph on the highway
without the trailer.

Since the Escape is also my "every day driver" and the large majority of its miles are non-towing,
the solo city/highway economy was a somewhat important consideration in selecting and
purchasing the Escape.

Ray




Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV
__________________
rdickens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2015, 08:15 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Name: Peter
Trailer: G30 Elite Class C
British Columbia
Posts: 1,034
Ford Escape

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdickens View Post
We tow a Scamp13 with a 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L Ecoboost FWD and have found it very stable.
In addition, we usually get 22-23 mpg towing at 60 mph and 32-34 mph on the highway
without the trailer.

Since the Escape is also my "every day driver" and the large majority of its miles are non-towing,
the solo city/highway economy was a somewhat important consideration in selecting and
purchasing the Escape.

Ray




Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV
: ray we bought the 2012 model, 4cyl tows 1500#'s easily but the book says cannot tow more than that because of the CVT automatic Transmission I hauled several barrels of auto parts out to Spokane from Vancouver, BC without a problem weight was 1450#'s plus the trailer and camp gear in back as we slept in the back of the escape, a bit tight but only for one night.
Only good thing about your Escape is you can't burn that different gas, we cannot burn that stuff only regular gas. But way better than the old Stude I drove it had a hard time on ethanol gas and after 4 or 5 tanks I would have to put in top of the line gas or find a 76 station in the US or the odd Chevron in Canada did not put Ethanol in. We like our Escape also because it is the old style and not the newer version as u lose space in back with the sloping roof line.
Also the rear window opens up and we can pack lumber in side up to 12' easily for small jobs and I throw on 4x8 sheets of plywood onroof and tie it down. If to much I take trailer in with me and load the heck out of it to the 1500# max.
Never had problems with it on hwy, nor in city runs just fine.
Stude
__________________
stude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2015, 07:06 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
rdickens's Avatar
 
Name: Ray
Trailer: 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe
Missouri
Posts: 504
With the Factory tow package, the Ford-supplied documentation says that the 2.0L Ecoboost
Escape is rated for 3500 lbs tow and 350 lbs tongue weight.

With 270 lb-ft of torque at 3000 rpm (and 240 hp at slightly higher rpm), the 2.0L Ecoboost
Escape has always had power to spare for all kinds of terrain and wind conditions. With the
Scamp13 in tow, we went up and over Donner Pass with the cruise control set on 60 mph.
The mpg dropped while going up the mountain, but recovered to the 22-23 mpg range going
down on the other side.

Ray


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV
__________________
rdickens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2015, 11:34 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Name: Peter
Trailer: G30 Elite Class C
British Columbia
Posts: 1,034
2Lescape allowed towable weights of more than non.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdickens View Post
With the Factory tow package, the Ford-supplied documentation says that the 2.0L Ecoboost
Escape is rated for 3500 lbs tow and 350 lbs tongue weight.

With 270 lb-ft of torque at 3000 rpm (and 240 hp at slightly higher rpm), the 2.0L Ecoboost
Escape has always had power to spare for all kinds of terrain and wind conditions. With the
Scamp13 in tow, we went up and over Donner Pass with the cruise control set on 60 mph.
The mpg dropped while going up the mountain, but recovered to the 22-23 mpg range going
down on the other side.

Ray


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV
;Ray here is what the dealer reference books says about the 2012 Ford Escape 2wd with powertrain of 2.5L with automatic can tow Maximum Trailer weight of 1500# or 680Kg all due to the CVTransmission as these trannies are not made for more weight and up until a cple of years ago they were towing them behind MH's and blowing the trannies and they are not not allowed to use them for Tow'ds. To bad the dealer or Manufacturer did not look into the average weight of canned Ham or FG trailers right from the start. The 2.5L is also allowed 800#'s inside the Escape so remove 400#'s for driver and passenger that leaves another 400#'s for cargo. Now if the sales person we dealt with had of been more honest then I myself would not of bought this vehicle.
So as of now I'm looking around for a Dodge Pick up with a 225 slant 6 with Automatic or a 1967 to 1979 Ford Pickup with the inline 6 and automatic but all have to come with PS and PB, AC would be a plus for the times one can use it in AZ, Utah, Nevada, CA, NM, down south etc.
Stude
__________________
stude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2015, 12:38 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,307
Registry
Simple answer ya'all are driving too fast.
__________________

__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Class? What "class" is a Casita? Susan K. General Chat 4 02-21-2010 06:52 PM
..............preclude to motor homes FargoEd Jokes, Stories & Tall Tales 1 11-20-2009 09:38 AM
Are Fiberglass Class B/Class C's Discussed Here? Verbotten? Suzanne P. General Chat 1 05-12-2008 09:49 PM
Class 3 vs class 2 DonInChatt Care and Feeding of Molded Fiberglass Trailers 13 12-18-2006 07:36 PM
Class? What "class" is a Casita? Darlene B Classified Archives 0 12-31-1969 07:00 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.