Plans to reduce the discount on Senior & Disabled Cards - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 12-03-2009, 11:41 PM   #29
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I totally agree, it's messed up! But that still doesn't entitle me to any discount. Sorry that's how I feel. Our society is screwed up, but until "those" who take and take (and I am not talking camping seniors here! or the goverment) get a reality check, which will take the American people saying enough than it will continue to be that way.
Robin ;
If you read my first comment on this subject, you will see that I was not talking about any entitlement....
.......But then, maybe the proposed suicide counseling every 5 years will solve that pesky Senior discount thing by itself. ("screwed up" ain't the half of it!)
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:09 AM   #30
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Floyd, Since when is a discount about age respect? Don't understand why you would think a discount shows sign of respect. The senior discount concept (though discounts have been offered through out history) gained momentum to break the cycle of the seniors of the 60's and 70's whom spent years and years pinching pennies to get out and spend some of their wad.

I am of the believe that we earn respect, I don't just think that because I am of a certain age I should be respected. ( Not all old people are respectable) As well as not all young people are disrespectful.


Heres the definition of discounts as found in Wikipedia:

The purpose of discounts is to increase short-term sales, move out-of-date stock, reward valuable customers, encourage distribution channel members to perform a function, or otherwise reward behaviors that benefit the discount issuer.[



Raya your inbox is fulllllllllll
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:26 AM   #31
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This was the 1965 policy...
such fees were governed by the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of 1965

quote
"Under previous policy, offering lifetime passes and substantial discounts to seniors and the
disabled was a way of honoring their contributions to our nation and ensuring them access to the benefits of outdoor recreation."

The word discount is used to describe a way of honoring, maybe we are not to be honored anymore.

for a plain english click this link
http://www.westernslopenofee.org/pdfupload...r_Discounts.pdf

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Old 12-04-2009, 12:26 AM   #32
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I am an over the hill senior that has worked my butt of all my life. I have sent 2 of my blood sons to college as well as 2 of my foster sons. I have never received a dollar of public assistance in my entire life. And I had enough respect for my seniors that I would never begrudge them a discount.
As person that has paid more than his far share in income taxes over a 65 year period I think the government owes me a little something for contributing to the welfare of those who did not work as hard as I did. What is it going to cost you?
Nothing! I am pushing 70, if am lucky enough to stay in FS pay campgrounds for another 125 days it would save me about $1000.00. That's nothing to the government.
I have a paid for home which is very lucky because I lost over half of my savings last Sept. Interest is nothing on a savings account now. I have my Social Security as my income now. There are a lot of seniors in much worse shape than I am now.
Those people that are driving those million dollar rigs are the ones that pay most of the of the income tax collected by our government. Almost 50% of Americans pay no income tax today.
As far as I am concerned those million dollar rig drivers are entitled to take the discount if they want to. They paid a hell of a lot more towards the upkeep of our forests than anyone else.
Last year I would not have minded the raise in the cost to seniors but now if the costs are now raised it will limit my camping.
As I said before it is not money. It is the FS limiting our access to the forest with ever increasing fees and not maintaining facilities or roads in the forest.
John
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:56 AM   #33
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Quote:
This was the 1965 policy...
such fees were governed by the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of 1965

quote
"Under previous policy, offering lifetime passes and substantial discounts to seniors and the
disabled was a way of honoring their contributions to our nation and ensuring them access to the benefits of outdoor recreation."

The word discount is used to describe a way of honoring, maybe we are not to be honored anymore.

for a plain english click this link
http://www.westernslopenofee.org/pdfupload...r_Discounts.pdf
[b]

It doesn't say it's taking the discount away, so "you" will still be honored. They just want to lower the discount. Again, I have to ask, Are you willing to take a cut in your discount or do you wanna lose campgrounds all together? You choose!
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:48 AM   #34
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Well I am nearly old enough for the senior discount but I don't really think I support it. Ther is no way to do a income based pricing so what I would like to see is pricing based on size (length probably best) of the rig you bring in.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:32 AM   #35
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Floyd, Since when is a discount about age respect? Don't understand why you would think a discount shows sign of respect. The senior discount concept (though discounts have been offered through out history) gained momentum to break the cycle of the seniors of the 60's and 70's whom spent years and years pinching pennies to get out and spend some of their wad.

I am of the believe that we earn respect, I don't just think that because I am of a certain age I should be respected. ( Not all old people are respectable) As well as not all young people are disrespectful.


Heres the definition of discounts as found in Wikipedia:

The purpose of discounts is to increase short-term sales, move out-of-date stock, reward valuable customers, encourage distribution channel members to perform a function, or otherwise reward behaviors that benefit the discount issuer.[



[b]Raya your inbox is fulllllllllll
Now that you have proven my point more eloquently than I could hope to, this can be my last word on the subject.
Regards; Floyd
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:41 AM   #36
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[b]

It doesn't say it's taking the discount away, so "you" will still be honored. They just want to lower the discount. Again, I have to ask, Are you willing to take a cut in your discount or do you wanna lose campgrounds all together? You choose!
Sorry, but I don't understand your premise... "Are you willing to take a cut in your discount or do you wanna lose campgrounds all together?" I have seen nothing in the proposal that indicates the campgrounds are to be closed. The sky is not falling, all this has to do with is concessionaire requests, not park closings. The 50%discounts will be honored at non concessionaire operated parks regardless of this proposal.

And if you have a paper Golden Age pass, flip it over and read the back side and decide for yourself what is proper.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:46 AM   #37
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Robin I hate this [ what if ] the goverment was to take away 40% of tax duct, from every one that is not 65 yet because they havent payed taxes long enough to get a discount , and use the money to pay concessionaire requests,. would that work ?
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:47 AM   #38
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Now that you have proven my point more eloquently than I could hope to, this can be my last word on the subject.
Regards; Floyd
So you think I have proven your point, because I don't agree with your point of view? So then I become one of the, as you said " changing population"? Maybe in your eyes but not in mine. I understand that you feel that after all of your years of hard work you deserve a break. But I see all my hardworking tax paying years as contributing to the society in-which I live. Which in my belief doesn't entitle me to a discount. It would be nice, but I understand that businesses have to change at times to keep surviving. So in order to keep doing business they got to cut some corners, and again are not totally taking the discount away just redefining the way they discount. [b]I am in no way defending the way our tax dollars are spent! But as I have said before in the topic, it's for another venue not this forum. It takes all of us, young and old a like to keep our country surviving, thriving, growing, till the day they put us on the other side of the dirt. And though I don't like how "they" work most of the time I certainly don't see another place better to live. And until or unless I am willing to bang some heads to make "them" do it my way (which in my opinion would be a better way) I have to go along with our changing world. That is not being dis-repectful it's just being a citizen of our society.





John, I didn't say that they are closing campgrounds because of this "Plan to reduce". (Though there have been campground closings topic's here before) my point is, They are trying to find ways to make "their business plan work" Again, don't agree! but [b]eventually if their business changes don't work, budget cuts etc will force more closings. We as campers have already seen the poor neglect of many campgrounds due to cut backs and what ever else "they" wanna call it. For me common sense tell's me eventually they will shut more and more down because it cost to much for them to maintain. So for me, I am willing to lose a portion of a discount to keep the campground open.

And seniors will still get their respect/honor if they stay in a non concessionaire campground. See they are not taking the discount away! Only changing the way they discount. All businesses at some point have to change their way of doing business to keep in business.
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:05 PM   #39
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Robin I hate this [ what if ] the goverment was to take away 40% of tax duct, from every one that is not 65 yet because they havent payed taxes long enough to get a discount , and use the money to pay concessionaire requests,. would that work ?
I guess Herschel I don't really understanding what your asking. (sorry) But I will try and reply with my opinion of what I think your asking. Hmmmmm, 40% percent of under 65 tax deductions. In my opinion there are so few tax deductions I was ever entitled to that 40% of nothing wouldn't get them very far.

I suppose if you go by the premises that discounts are a "right" as a citizen, then your feelings would be valid. But to my knowledge they are a gift. Heck, as a citizen our rights are taking away all the time, so I guess that "gifts" can be taken just as easily.


[b]Discounts are not a assurance in this life,
But be assured Taxes are!
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:18 PM   #40
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Boy is this a can of worms .! I am 66 years old & disabled veteran seems the first place to go when money is needed is take if from The old,disabled ,disabled veterans,
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Old 12-04-2009, 01:13 PM   #41
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Robin G;
This is not a further word on the subject, only a clarification...
1] I meant no offense by my cultural observations.
2] I have considerable time to go before becoming a senior citizen.
3] I truly understand your emphasis on fairness, and why you feel the way you do on this subect, we simply are viewing it from different perspectives.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:05 PM   #42
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First, let me say that I have a Golden Access card and yes, I use it and will continue to do so. As is with Perry, I have not taken a penny in public assistance ever, and even if I wanted to, I am single and am ineligible for any of it, even if I had a low income. (Which I do now, but have not had most of my working life)

I look at this as my "Bone" that has been thrown to me. I pay the highest tax rate there is. I have sunk a lot of money into the system when my income was high and steady over my entire work life. Yet, I get nothing in the way of assistance back when I truely need it, but this card.

OK, now that my *opinion* is out of the way.. here is what true experience I have with the cards from working in a Forest Service campground. The fact is, there just are not many of them compared to full fee paying customers. I never had an opportunity or need to count them, but I am going to make an edumicated guestimate from handling them as a fee taker... Maybe 1 in 50 campers used them.

I hardly think the system will collapse if they continue using them as is.

Any other workampers out there that have actually handled them?
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