Propane cylinder alert

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Patxx

Only statement I found on this is from that link in the first post.
Toward the bottom of it--
Sarah Reboli, director of regulatory affairs at NPGA makes the following statement.
"The second concern is that this change has come across without any discussion, rationale, justification or evaluation."

I recommend that you read the whole statement but that is what I got from what she said. If you have other evidence or find any than post it.

Let's me understand this correctly and yes I read the article.
A person is hired and paid by a trade association that represent propane suppliers objects to a regulation and her statement should be taken as fact and that she has no reason to be biased .
Reminds me of the tobacco industry when they stated that their studies showed smoking is harmless and strenuously objected to unwarranted government interference.
Without all the FACTS , it's pretty hard to say which side is correct.
I would rather error on the side of safety , especially when a new tank is under $30.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Let's me understand this correctly and yes I read the article.
A person is hired and paid by a trade association that represent propane suppliers objects to a regulation and her statement should be taken as fact and that she has no reason to be biased .
Reminds me of the tobacco industry when they stated that their studies showed smoking is harmless and strenuously objected to unwarranted government interference.
Without all the FACTS , it's pretty hard to say which side is correct.
I would rather error on the side safety , especially when a new tank is under $30.

I think the point was that Pat did a search for the FACTS and found nothing, other than the statement mentioned. Yes, we should, of course, understand Sarah Reboli's motivation, but since it seems the FACTS that justify the rule change cannot be found (at least on the net), that raises some suspicion that the rule change is not justified. I don't think anyone was taking Reboli's statement as absolutely proven fact, they are just looking for the evidence.

I could also do some research, but its a moot point now, unless one wants to join the lobby to get it changed back. The rule is the rule now. You are of course free to replace your tank(s) even more frequently if you think you should.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by gordon2

I think the point was that Pat did a search for the FACTS and found nothing, other than the statement mentioned. Yes, we should, of course, understand Sarah Reboli's motivation, but since it seems the FACTS that justify the rule change cannot be found (at least on the net), that raises some suspicion that the rule change is not justified. I don't think anyone was taking Reboli's statement as absolutely proven fact, they are just looking for the evidence.

I could also do some research, but its a moot point now, unless one wants to join the lobby to get it changed back. The rule is the rule now. You are of course free to replace your tank(s) even more frequently if you think you should.

Even if I was presented with all the facts , I have neither the training or education to determine which side is correct and I have no reason to believe that most people on this forum are any more qualified than I am.
I neither assume that the regulations has merit or is totally lacking in merit. If I choose to replace my propane tanks before being required has no bearing on whether the regulation is well founded.
Until we have all the facts any judgement of the new regulation is based on pure speculation .

[Patxx]

Just so people understand. I don't object to this rule as its no big deal to me.
But I think any regulatory change should be presented with data and reasons for the change(s).

[Radar1]

One interesting note about the change is that although it reduces the first requalification from 12 years to 10 years, it also increases the succeeding
requalifications from 7 years to 10 years.
Under the old rule, a tank would have to be requalified again after 19 years (12 plus 7), but now that same tank would be good for 20 years after 1st requalification (10 plus 10).
Actually makes it easier for those filling the tanks since they only have to add 10 to the latest date stamped on the tank.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Patxx

Just so people understand. I don't object to this rule as its no big deal to me.
But I think any regulatory change should be presented with data and reasons for the change(s).

And, that's the problem. We have none of that, just speculation upon speculation.

[Mike Magee]

I would like to add some expectoration. Where's the spittoon?

[Paul O.]

Originally Posted by Radar1

....
Actually makes it easier for those filling the tanks since they only have to add 10 to the latest date stamped on the tank.

My six years old grandsons can add twelve to any other two digit number. Sigh...

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Paul O.

My six years old grandsons can add twelve to any other two digit number. Sigh...

True, but with some people they no longer have to take off a shoe to count to twelve.

[Gerry]

Our 13 year old LP tank...Looks OK... did it's job.... needs refilling...Can't..UGGGG angry.

Our 5 year old Car....looks OK....does it's job....needs gas... can't wait to get to a dealer to trade it in....

Ad 12....1+1+1+1+1 untie shoe, take off sock +1+1+1+1+1 untie other shoe, take off other sock +1+1 dern I forgot what I was adding 12 to.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by Carl V

I had my 10# tank recertified about 3 years ago. My understanding this involves a visual inspection (no rust or damage), they put on a new valve, do a pressure test, and stamp a new date on the collar. Cost me $40 including a purge and refill. Good for another 10 years. Cheaper than buying a new 10# (abt 65$).

That is good to know. I have 2 x 10# tanks on my boler American that should be about due right now. IIRC they cost me about $95 each when I first got them. That was for the new tank, 1st purge and fill.

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi All,

We bought our new to us '05 Casita 17' FD in November, '15. We camped all of 2016. I noticed the production date on the propane tanks was November, '03. Recertification in KY is logistically challenging or impossible. I took the tanks off the Casita and used the remaining propane over the winter for grilling. I then turned them in at a local propane company. I wanted to start camping this season with fresh/full tanks, since refilling them was not going to be possibility due to their age. I went to Sam's Club and purchased two new empty tanks for $30 a piece. I then went to Tractor Supply Co and had both of them filled for a total of $22. I am good to go for 10 years except when it is time to refill them. I don't have to worry about old tanks running out when I am traveling. The cheapest thing would have been to go to a propane exchange retailer, swap out the old tanks for two new full tanks (even through only 3/4s full). I could have done this for $45 rather than the $82 that I spent. In any case, I don't have to worry about my old tanks anymore.

Take care,

Dean

[Paul O.]

Back to this topic, it is not dead yet.

Just a couple of days ago I had two 20# cylinders refilled. One of them was stamped 05-05 and I asked specifically, if it is still OK. Yes, I was told, with two weeks to spare before the end of 05-17! Twelve years rule! The man explained that he heard something about the ten year rule, but received no authoritative/official notification from wherever it should come from, so he continues as before. He also showed me on one of the tanks where is says it it good for twelve years, it is stamped on the collar. This outfit does a huge amount of refills and has the best price around. He does inspect cylinders for rust, etc. and said there are occasionally instances when he refuses to refill.

So, it is all clear as mud...

[Johnny M]

Pressure tanks in general can rupture for various reasons one being age and condition (i.e. rust can weaken it), not to mention seals in the valve assembly. I have no problem replacing a tank a 10 years, or sooner if I visually see anything suspect. Here is a link to a B.L.E.V.E (Boling Liquid Evaporating Vapor Exposion) video, watch it and you will understand my reasons. A BLEVE can happen to a good tank if exposed to fire long enough, an old rusty weakend tank would likely rupture much sooner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl-JgyQA7u0

[Gerry]

Paul O. Let me throw a bit of ink in with the mud...
When I took class, 7 years ago, to pump propane we were told 12 years from the date stamped on new tanks and 10 years from tanks with an "E" date. meaning recertified date.
Now...Last week after the Spring Fling I had a tank filled and was informed that the 12 year date for new tanks have beed reduced to 10 years...I argued the point that if tank is still in date the new law (if there is one) couldn't be enforced without everyones tank with the "good for 12 years from date" stamped on it, be baught back by propane companies.
I got my tank filled.
How's that for ink in your water.

[k corbin]

Take the tank in for inspection and get a new sticker put on it. I took mine in to a marine supplier who had someone on staff who did that kind of inspection work. It only cost $7.00. No need to make mountains out of mole hills. Just ask around your area for someone who can inspect and put a sticker on the tank. They might be listed in that old fashioned book called the "yellow pages" under the category of propane.

[Gerry]

NO worries I get it recertified for free at the campground I worked at.

[Paul O.]

That BLEVE demo video is impressive and everybody should see it with the goal to be informed, but not scared. The cylinders have all kinds of safety devices designed in them and the steel walls are designed with generous safety factors.

In the meantime, I give my business to the guy who does things the "old fashioned" way. That is until some regulatory body (whoever they are) gets their act together and clarifies things.

[floyd]

I've got a plan to eliminate all concerns based on age of tanks, tires,axle wear, batteries etc...
Simply buy a new trailer every three years, then call me and I will come to your house and remove that old outdated trailer for FREE!
Just hand me a signed open title and I will take care of the rest!

[Johnny M]

Originally Posted by Paul O.

That BLEVE demo video is impressive and everybody should see it with the goal to be informed, but not scared. The cylinders have all kinds of safety devices designed in them and the steel walls are designed with generous safety factors.

In the meantime, I give my business to the guy who does things the "old fashioned" way. That is until some regulatory body (whoever they are) gets their act together and clarifies things.

Yes it was not my intent to scare people but to make them aware of the reasons as to why these tanks are regulated the way they are. As a retired firefighter I have seen first hand what happens to these type cylinders in uncontrolled environments - seen a 1/4 thick wall welding tank that blew apart, at the rupture point the side rolled back like a sardine can...