PTI registration in Cal.

[John Perry]

I just registered my Scamp and DMV refused to put a PTI registration on it. My 14' burro has a PTI registration as do several other small travel trailers in the area.
If anyone has fought DMV on this issue and won please let me know.
The local DMV claims that only under 16 foot carrier type trailers, utility trailers and pop up camping trailers, are elegible for this type of registration.

Any help is appreciated,
John

[Bigfoot Mike]

[b]California Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI)

[b]Camp Trailer Definition - California DMV code

[b]Camp Trailer

242. A "camp trailer" is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes, that does not exceed 16 feet in overall length from the foremost point of the trailer hitch to the rear extremity of the trailer body and does not exceed 96 inches in width and includes any tent trailer. Where a trailer telescopes for travel, the size shall apply to the trailer as fully extended. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a camp trailer shall not be deemed to be a trailer coach.

-----

The Law clearly states Camp Trailers under 16’.
[b]California DMV PTI Code (half way down the page)

[b]What trailers are subject to Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI)?

[b]All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI.

[b]NOTE: A camp trailer or fifth-wheel trailer (depending upon maximum length, width, or size) can be registered as a trailer coach, or camp trailer. [b]Camp trailers are subject to PTI, but trailer coaches are subject to annual registration and excluded from PTI.

Will fees be charged for a trailer?

Yes. There is a Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI) fee for the original registration. You will receive a permanent identification card at the time of initial registration/conversion.

The PTI is renewed every five (5) years.

Approximately 60 days prior to the expiration date, you will receive a PTI renewal notice requesting the fee. Return the fee in the envelope provided. You will receive a notice of acknowledgment for the payment.

Upon conversion to PTI registration, you can:

* Retain the existing trailer plate, or
* Request a new permanent trailer identification plate.

Tow dollies or auxiliary dollies are not required to be registered in California (Vehicle Code §5014.1), but you may opt to convert to PTI. If you convert to PTI, you need to display a PTI plate or a regular plate with a PTI sticker. If you do not convert to PTI, remove the existing plate.

While registration under the PTI program is optional for tow dollies, you may want to register your tow dolly under PTI if you will be towing it out of state because other states' registration requirements for trailers vary.

How do I register my trailer in the PTI program?

You must submit:

* Titling document(s) (out of state title, new vehicle report of sale, Manufacturer's Statement of Origin, etc.) to establish your ownership of the vehicle.
* An Application for Registration/Title (REG 343).
* Original Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI) filing fee.

The department will issue a PTI Card and maintain an electronic ownership record. If there is no legal owner, and you would like to receive a Certificate of Title, complete Sections 1 and 2 on Side A of the PTI Certification (REG 4017). An additional title only fee is charged for the paper title.

PTI Renewal

The PTI is renewed every five (5) years (renewal fee). If you keep your existing plate, a PTI sticker will be issued. The PTI plate does not need a sticker.

Personalized or Special Interest License Plates for Trailers.

Personalized and special interest license plates may be retained or requested on a PTI trailer. The trailer owner will receive an annual renewal notice for the special license plate renewal fees, which vary depending on the type of special license plate.

[John Perry]

[b]California DMV PTI Code[/url] (half way down the page)

[b]What trailers are subject to Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI)?

Thanks Mike,
I am going to print out your post and go back to DMV. He apparently did not read far enough.
Thanks,
John

[John Perry]

Thanks Mike,
I am going to print out your post and go back to DMV. He apparently did not read far enough.
Thanks,
John

Mike,
I just returned from DMV. After getting nowhere with the person that did my original registration I asked to speak to the manager. He still argued with me even after reading the printout. I finally asked him to call the main office and get an interpertation of the law.
After describing the trailer there was a few moments of silence and he said,"OH, OK", and hung up. He told my it was really a travel trailer, not a camp trailer, but it still quallilfied for the PTI registration.
I wonder how many people are paying registration fee's every year when common sense should tell these people that they are wrong.
Thanks again,
John

[Frederick L. Simson]

...but it still quallilfied for the PTI registration.

Congratulations on your Persistance and Success!

[Chris B]

"I wonder how many people are paying registration fee's every year when common sense should tell these people that they are wrong."

HERE!!! I didn't know this!

[Frederick L. Simson]

All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI.

NOTE: A camp trailer or fifth-wheel trailer (depending upon maximum length, width, or size) can be registered as a trailer coach, or camp trailer. Camp trailers are subject to PTI, but trailer coaches are subject to annual registration and excluded from PTI.

[b]Camp Trailer
242. A "camp trailer" is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation [b]for camping or recreational purposes, that does not exceed 16 feet in overall length from the foremost point of the trailer hitch to the rear extremity of the trailer body and does not exceed 96 inches in width and includes any tent trailer. Where a trailer telescopes for travel, the size shall apply to the trailer as fully extended. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a camp trailer shall not be deemed to be a trailer coach.

[b]Trailer Coach
635. A "trailer coach" is a vehicle, other than a motor vehicle, designed for human habitation or human occupancy [b]for industrial, professional, or commercial purposes, for carrying property on its own structure, and for being drawn by a motor vehicle. A "park trailer," as described in Section 18009.3 of the Health and Safety Code, is a trailer coach

It seems to me that our task is to prevent our "Camp Trailers" from being deemed "Trailer Coaches."

[Lizbeth]

"I wonder how many people are paying registration fee's every year when common sense should tell these people that they are wrong."

HERE!!! I didn't know this!

Most Casitas don't qualify because they are over 16ft.

[Chris B]

Thanks, Lizbeth. I didn't notice that part!

[Bigfoot Mike]

It seems to me that our task is to prevent our "Camp Trailers" from being deemed "Trailer Coaches."

[b]Trailer Coaches by [b]their definition is for Commercial purposes.
<blockquote>“...industrial, professional, or commercial purposes”</blockquote>
I think that Bureaucrat was just trying to save face.

[b]A "Camp Trailer" is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes, that does not exceed 16 feet...

[Frederick L. Simson]

He told my it was really a travel trailer, not a [b]camp trailer, but it still quallilfied for the PTI registration.

I wonder how many people are paying registration fee's every year [b]when common sense should tell these people that they are wrong.

I find it difficult to believe that "common sense" has anything to do with it. I believe myself to posess "common sense", but I am hard pressed to understand the regulation, especially by reading it only once.

The clerk confused his terms. He said Travel Trailer, not [b]Trailer Coach.

How many 5th wheel trailers are within 16' in length? The reference says a 5th wheel trailer may be registered as a [b]Camp Trailer.

Where a trailer telescopes for travel, the size shall apply to the trailer as fully extended.

...and includes any tent trailer.

Those two statements look contradictory to me. I am aware of the existance of tent trailers that are longer than 16' when set up, and shorter than that when folded for travel.

A 16' Casita Spirit Deluxe might make the cut, but a 17' Casita Spirit Deluxe definately would not...

A "trailer coach" is a vehicle... for carrying property on its own structure,

What does That mean?

[Bigfoot Mike]

If you are carrying PROPERTY, it is commercial. I know we all carry our personal belongings (we call personal property), but that is not goods (as in business property).

Fred, I see 5th wheel as one of two requirements. To qualify as a PTI it must be also, 16’ or less. A 5th wheel can be a Camp trailer just as a 17’ Casita, but is not qualified as a PTI because of the length.

5th wheels can be commercial or recreational. PTI is only offered to recreational trailers.

[Frederick L. Simson]

PTI is only offered to recreational trailers.

[b]All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI.

The most common trailer that I have seen PTI plates on are Semi-Trailers, especially open flat bed trailers. This seems to be who the law was written for in the first place...

[Bigfoot Mike]

The most common trailer that I have seen PTI plates on are Semi-Trailers, especially open flat bed trailers. This seems to be who the law was written for in the first place...

OK, I stand corrected. It seems to me that Semi-Trailers are for commercial use, right. So how does that fit.

Just to add to the confusion, my first 17’ Casita was given a PTI. I know of another 17 footer in Shasta that was given a PTI.

I personally went into great depth with our local DMV and the supervisor walk me through the process and was very gracious in his approach. He explained it to me and I thought I understood.

[Frederick L. Simson]

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chris B @ Oct 19 2006, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>
"I wonder how many people are paying registration fee's every year when common sense should tell these people that they are wrong."
[/quote]
As you can see by my updated [b]Avitar, I have corrected my situation.

Once again, My AAA membership, along with This Board, has paid off!
I went in [b]to the AAA office when they opened this morning... was one of the first 5 persons in line... and went immediately to the service window. I showed the clerk the definition of "Camp Trailer" I printed off of the DMV website, and he was satisfied. My transaction was completed within 30 minutes... and it took THAT long only because I had additional paperwork done. I re-titled my Honda and my Fiber Stream into my trust. The PTI plates preclude having a title on the Fiber Stream, but they offered a title for a $17.00 fee "because the program is still new". I bought a title, so it can be more hassle free for my trustee to handle my estate.

[Joy A]

Here's the crazy thing:

12/00 registration $131 for 1 year

12/01 rec'd renewal and PTI info
registration $20 for 5 years

12/06 rec'd PTI renewal
registration $10 for 5 years


Does this mean that 12/11 it'll be $5 for 5 years and then 12/16 $0 for life.
Something to contemplate

[Lizbeth]

Fred, they didn't ask to see the trailer?

I went to the Auto Club change the tags on the Cardinal to PTI a couple years ago and they wouldn't do it because they had to verify the trailer was under 16 ft (which it is). So I'm still paying trailer coach fees on it. It's parked in someones back yard on jacks with someone living in it.

Maybe I need to try again when it's due this year? I don't think anywhere on the title or reg. it states how long it is.

[Frederick L. Simson]

12/06 rec'd PTI renewal
registration $10 for 5 years

That's the price I paid [b](plus $17 for an optional title)*
I wasn't aware before yesterday that the price had been reduced.

*note on edit: This is only available as an option if the trailer already has a title. Once the trailer has been enrolled into the PTI program without exercizing this option a title is no longer available for it. That's because PTI trailers are not registered, they have identification.

When I sold my Compact Junior it was in the PTI program, but I still had a title for it. My buyer and I conducted the transaction at the AAA office. The AAA clerk offered my buyer the option because the Compact Junior had an existing title, and warned him of that once the title was declined, it could not be reinstated. He declined anyway...

[Frederick L. Simson]

Fred, they didn't ask to see the trailer?

[b]Maybe I need to try again when it's due this year?

I highly recommend that you try again.

I did take the trailer with me.
I got <strike>a parking space</strike> 2 parking spaces right in front of the building so that it was visible thru the windows from inside. The clerk could see it from his work station. He took my word for it that it was 16' long and did not ask to go outside to measure it.
He was appreciative that I showed him a copy of the Camp Trailer Definition. This saved him time and effort looking it up in his reference manual.

[Lizbeth]

Thanks for the info Fred. I will try it when it's due this year.