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Old 07-31-2015, 11:46 AM   #15
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I too am skeptical of the claim that driving slower increases odds of being in an accident. Would need to have some links to provide the basis for it. I know the theory that slower drivers are a hazard is one that some subscribe to but don't recall anyone providing links to sources that directly support it.

Recall from trucking days that driving to get there as fast as you could you added risk from passing, hard braking and speed changes by a massive number of times but on a drive of 400 miles arrived only about 15 minutes sooner than the driver that was instructed to drive there as safely as he could. He seldom passed and did much less hard braking, oh and used less fuel.

Could have been propaganda I suppose but it was propaganda the employer that owned the trucks wanted us to see.

On the other hand one has to wonder at the motivation of folks that self select to drive at a lower speed than general traffic and thus show up in the statistics.

Is it because they are compensating for an already perceived risk factor or condition(s) or just some sort of normal distribution? Seems to me traffic tends to move at an average speed with a few impatient folks trying to beat the average and a few often towing or heavily loaded going slower. I also notice drivers that seem tentative about where they are going or their ability tend to drive slower. Age related or general physical limitations can impact what speed a person feels comfortable with. Cataracts and night driving or driving in rain with glare are good examples of where a driver with less ability to avoid an accident slows down to match speed to ability to see traffic conditions.

Point is IF the most risky vehicles or vehicles driven by those with physical limitations that make driving a greater risk tend to drive slower you have skewed your data. Is driving slower an accident cause or an effect of those that decide to do it being a sub group more likely to have an accident?

If that is the case the same curve might well result, the less safe vehicles and drivers distribute the same as the hot dogs that speed. With the "normal" driver in "normal" driving equipment/situation has the least accidents.

In theory I suppose being passed is as dangerous as passing but I would guess that depends on the abilities of the individual drivers and the vehicles involved.

One thing about bulk statistics they can be interesting but... 100% of mammals that consume water will die and almost 50% of the population will never get pregnant from sex irrespective of contraceptive use. So you could say the big picture stats only point in the direction of the right questions that need to be examined, not really provide answers.
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:58 AM   #16
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It has been said that being paranoid does not mean they are NOT out to get you!
Like a dog chasing its tail we spend too much of our time pursuing the "Zeitgeist of the site" which is hyperbole and distrust of adult responsibility.
RVing has proven to be safer than other forms of traffic largely due to the fact that it is pursued by responsible, informed, and competent people.
As such, they are certainly aware of the rules and more importantly aware of what works for the fun and safety of themselves and those around them.
Quoting the law, which varies from state to state,is fine as long as the the purpose is not simply to bolster a weak argument, in fact most states require license plates for RVs in which the application process exposes the applicant to the applicable rules apply.
Most of us are motivated by a desire to stay safe and do the right thing, remembering that it is the spirit and not the letter which gives life.
Fear is a second rate motivator which is soon ignored and encouragement is more effective than coercion.
If something is inadvisable....advise, it actually works better than shame or threats.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:09 PM   #17
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When towing I often(almost always) drive somewhat slower than traffic.
I find that it causes no problem since the trailer itself acts as ample warning for overtaking traffic. I have not had any bad reactions or close calls due to the disparity in speed when towing.
When driving an ordinary car or light truck without a trailer, overtaking traffic does not notice the disparity in speed until much later which can cause some anxious moments.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:09 PM   #18
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When I took Traffic Engineering in school, they taught us that the main way to avoid accidents is to avoid differences in speed and direction. Basically, if everyone travelled at the same speed, and followed the same direction there is no chance for conflict. Obviously, this is all theoretical, as in the real world it can't be done in all instances, but traffic engineering should do everything to minimize these conflicts.

When there are multiple lanes, having one lane in which a slower speed is maintained is not too much of an issue, other when the driver doing 91 pulls into the left lane to pass the driver doing the speed limit at 90. This driver is then causing others in that right lane to slow down, creating a bottle neck and getting these other folks bothered by the situation. Lane changing to pass all on multi-lane roads, with vehicles doing varying speeds, will obviously create the possibility of conflict. I have heard people say, that they are within the law driving at or below the speed limit, so screw the others in a hurry. This is not good defensive driving, and only creates further conflict, both between the drivers, and possibly the vehicles they are driving.

On single lane roads obviously having a slower driver will cause people catch up and again create a bottle neck and angry emotions. This is where passing lanes spaced out periodically are good, or pull-outs where by law you must pull over to allow others to pass. On a single land road, there is usually only one speed limit, and it would be best if everyone just did that limit, or at least all do the same speed.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
It has been said that being paranoid does not mean they are NOT out to get you!
Like a dog chasing its tail we spend too much of our time pursuing the "Zeitgeist of the site" which is hyperbole and distrust of adult responsibility.
RVing has proven to be safer than other forms of traffic largely due to the fact that it is pursued by responsible, informed, and competent people.
As such, they are certainly aware of the rules and more importantly aware of what works for the fun and safety of themselves and those around them.
Quoting the law, which varies from state to state,is fine as long as the the purpose is not simply to bolster a weak argument, in fact most states require license plates for RVs in which the application process exposes the applicant to the applicable rules apply.
Most of us are motivated by a desire to stay safe and do the right thing, remembering that it is the spirit and not the letter which gives life.
Fear is a second rate motivator which is soon ignored and encouragement is more effective than coercion.
If something is inadvisable....advise, it actually works better than shame or threats.
Good post Floyd, more the most part
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
In 10-20 years Big Brother will solve this problem. Trucks and trailers in one lane at an electronically-governed towing speed and passenger vehicles in another lane also traveling at an electronically-governed speed. The traffic control computers will maintain safe vehicle separation in each lane. Passing is eliminated.

Tow rigs meet rigid specifications with periodic inspections and automatic weighings to make sure they can be safely driven at the predetermined speeds.

Fantasy?
That reminds me of a Joke...
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming and crying like the passengers in his car!
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:21 PM   #21
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I found the Solomon curves interesting because following studies seemed to indicate the danger of turns, and how that might skew the results.

Turns are always a huge concern when driving and more so when towing the trailer.

I try to provide plenty of warning to following traffic...another reason I like the trailers rear camera... I will flash my tail lights, hit the directional signals, start slowing early, and generally pull towards the direction of the turn, particularly on right turns.

When coming to a stop, I tap my brakes to flash the tail lights, slow early, no quick stops. Again the rear camera lets me know if anyone's tucked in behind us.

Like Floyd I drive slower than traffic. Ginny always jokes when I pass some one, saying "Get the plate number, I want to write it down..."
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:31 PM   #22
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This is the basis for the theory: when you are driving with the flow you encounter fewer other vehicles. When you are traveling at a slower speed than average traffic is moving you are at the mercy of every vehicle that encounters your vehicle and must negotiate around the obstruction you have created by being "the cork in the bottle" and restricting traffic flow....sooner or later someone is likely to cause a crash.
When you are going a little faster than the average you are in control of the situation and you determine the action. If you are an alert and responsible driver you can control your own destiny and not leave it to all the traffic on the road that must negotiate a way around the slow moving obstruction.
You can elect to be the obstruction or take command of the situation...the choice is yours.
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Old 07-31-2015, 02:21 PM   #23
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I know one way we could have uniformity of speed without exceeding the safe operating parameters of RVs, large semis and doubles...

"Fifty-five Alive" anyone?

Oh, wait… we tried that one, didn't we?
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Old 07-31-2015, 02:26 PM   #24
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Being not retired yet, so no spare time to dawdle on the roads, I say...

Sixty Five Alive.
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Old 07-31-2015, 02:51 PM   #25
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Driving your speed is easy, Chose the Road Less Traveled, we do. It takes marginally longer, is easier to drive, more to see and saves fuel.
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Old 07-31-2015, 02:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uplander View Post
This is the basis for the theory: when you are driving with the flow you encounter fewer other vehicles. When you are traveling at a slower speed than average traffic is moving you are at the mercy of every vehicle that encounters your vehicle and must negotiate around the obstruction you have created by being "the cork in the bottle" and restricting traffic flow....sooner or later someone is likely to cause a crash.
When you are going a little faster than the average you are in control of the situation and you determine the action. If you are an alert and responsible driver you can control your own destiny and not leave it to all the traffic on the road that must negotiate a way around the slow moving obstruction.
You can elect to be the obstruction or take command of the situation...the choice is yours.
Very simplistic.
That's the theory... now what about reality?
The theory makes some sense only if the "flow of traffic" involves at least a 20MPH window.
There is no such thing as a "the flow of traffic" which is that place where you can relax and pay no attention, and there is no light duty TV that isn't safer without an RV trailer attached.
Realistically there is at least a 10MPH difference between the safe speed of a good TV/travel trailer set up and the same TV alone... usually more.

With the best of RV towing rigs at cruising speed, virtually every single car on the interstate will pass, many of them with a 20 MPH+ difference in speed. I will not attempt to tow at 80+MPH just to keep up, instead I will stay in the right lane and pass only when traffic allows me to do so safely. Navigating traffic while towing requires more time and anticipation than driving a car and therefore a need to go a little slower.
Things change when you drop the hitch on the ball and driving habits need to adjust to those changes.

Now... I am likely to pass you when you are towing and I am driving my Mustang, so please keep to the right and check your mirrors before changing lanes.
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Old 07-31-2015, 03:45 PM   #27
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Quote of the day

The problem with stats is that you can make them say whatever you like if the controls, samplings and measurements are done in a certain way. I am totally skeptical that driving slower causes YOU to get in more accidents. It may cause some of the crazies to get in more accidents as they try to pass you like a maniac, but that's their problem.


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Old 07-31-2015, 03:53 PM   #28
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Driving your speed is easy, Chose the Road Less Traveled, we do. It takes marginally longer, is easier to drive, more to see and saves fuel.
That's pretty much how we feel about it. Otherwise, on a long distance, interstate drive, I try to stay either far ahead, or far behind the clumps of traffic, therefore move along "with the flow". That Solomon curve does make sense.

There is some not yet explained force of nature that causes automobiles to clump, even where there are miles between the clumps and they could all have plenty of room.
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