RV Lithium Battery - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-26-2015, 08:39 PM   #1
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RV Lithium Battery

AM Solar's Products for RV Solar Battery Charging Systems Lithium Batteries


200 Amp-Hour Lithium Battery | Lithium Batteries
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:14 AM   #2
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Price: $1,899.00 ------- gulp....

Still, it is interesting to watch how these systems evolve.
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:20 AM   #3
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Technomadia using em for years.
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:25 AM   #4
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Paul,

It's less than a Tesla 3.5kw Battery (see their 400 amp-hr battery) with 50% more stored energy then Tesla's battery.
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Old 05-27-2015, 10:10 AM   #5
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Am I missing something? The dimensions shown are not significantly smaller then say two golf cart batteries with about the same capacity. Though 56lb is lighter then the golf cart batteries would be.

I assume that a standard battery charger is not an option either.
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:01 PM   #6
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David,

1/ Superior “Useable” Capacity
Unlike with lead acid batteries, it is considered practical to regularly use 85% or more of the rated capacity of a lithium battery bank, and occasionally more. Consider a 100 amp hour battery – if it was lead acid you would be wise to use just 30 to 50 amp hours of juice, but with lithium you could tap into 85 amp hours or more.
2/ Extended Cycle Life
Laboratory results indicate that you could expect to see 2000 to 5000 cycles out of a well cared for LiFePO4 battery bank. These are theoretical results but recent measurement shows that a battery will still deliver more than 75% of it’s capacity after 2000 cycles. In contrast, even the best deep cycle lead acid batteries are typically only good for 500-1000 cycles.
3/ Fast & Efficient Charging
Lithium-ion batteries can be “fast” charged to 100% of capacity. Unlike with lead acid, there is no need for an absorption phase to get the final 20% stored. And, if your charger is powerful enough, lithium batteries can also be charged insanely fast. If you can provide enough charging amps – you can actually fully charge a lithium ion battery just 30 minutes.
But even if you don’t manage to fully top off to 100%, no worries – unlike with lead acid, a failure to regularly fully charge Lithium-Ion batteries does not damage the batteries.
This give you lots of flexibility to tap into energy sources whenever you can get them without worrying about needing to do a full charge regularly. Several partly cloudy days with your solar system? No problem that you can’t top off before the sun goes down, as long as you’re keeping on top of your needs. With lithium, you can charge up what you can and not fret about leaving your battery bank perpetually undercharged.
4/ Very Little Wasted Energy
Lead acid batteries are less efficient at storing power than lithium ion batteries. Lithium batteries charge at nearly 100% efficiency, compared to the 85% efficiency of most lead acid batteries.
This can be especially important when charging via solar, when you are trying to squeeze as much efficiency out of every amp as possible before the sun goes down or gets covered up by clouds. Theoretically, with lithium nearly every drop of sun you’re able to collect goes into your batteries. With limited roof & storage space for panels, this becomes very important in optimizing every square inch of wattage you’re able to mount.
5/ Climate Resistance
Lead acid batteries and lithium lose their capacity in cold environments. Lithium-ion batteries are much more efficient at low temperatures. Moreover, the discharge rate affects the performance of lead acid batteries. At -20C, a Lithium battery that delivers a 1C current (one times its capacity), can deliver more than 80% of its energy when the AGM battery will deliver 30% of its capacity. For harsh environments (hot and cold), Lithium-Ion is the technological choice.
6/ Fewer Placement Issues
Lithium-ion batteries do not need to be stored in a vented battery compartment. They can also fairly easily be assembled into odd shapes – an advantage if you are trying to squeeze as much power as possible into a small compartment. This is especially useful if you have an existing battery bay that is limited in size, but you want or need more capacity than lead acid is currently able to provide.
7/ Little Maintenance Requirements
Lithium-Ion batteries are fairly maintenance free. A “balancing” process to make sure all the cells in a battery bank are equally charged is automatically achieved by the BMS (Battery Management System). Just charge your battery and you are good to go.
8/ Peukert’s Losses & Voltage Sag Virtually Non Existant
The discharge curve of lithium batteries (especially relative to lead acid) is essentially flat – meaning that a 20% charged battery will be providing nearly the same output voltage as an 80% charged battery. This prevents any issues caused by the “voltage sag” common to lead acid as they discharge, but does mean that any battery monitor or generator auto-start dependent upon voltage levels will likely not work well at all when monitoring a lithium bank.
On the flip side, once lithium batteries are fully discharged, their voltage takes a nose-dive quickly – which is the BMS's role to protect the batteries to absolutely never let this happen. Completely discharging a lithium ion bank, even once, can render your entire pack permanently dead.
Another huge advantage of lithium batteries is that Peukert’s losses are essentially non-existant. This means that Lithium-Ion batteries can deliver their full rated capacity, even at high currents. Whereas lead acid can see as much as a 40% loss of capacity at high loads. In practice, this means that Lithium-Ion battery banks are very well suited to powering high current loads like an air conditioner, a microwave or an induction cooktop.
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:28 PM   #7
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Thank you Norm, that was very informative.

One down side to Lithium batteries, they burn BRIGHT!
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:58 PM   #8
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I remember from my high school chemistry that lithium had to be kept in a jar and covered with kerosene. When exposed to air it would burn spontaneously (yes, very bright) and if thrown in water, hydrogen would bubble up, which happens to be the basis one of the pranks that the MIT students used to pull, throwing it in Charles River, as a result of which folks would call various agencies, reporting fire on the water.

I was going to experiment, but found out that the lithium in the AA batteries, after they were exhausted, is chemically inert (converted to what...?) and no fun can be had. In the end I would not waste an expensive good battery for my silly games.
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Old 05-27-2015, 04:31 PM   #9
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Fires....

This is not a new phenomenon, and fortunately it is also a rare one. In 2006 millions of lithium-ion battery packs made by Sony were replaced after several hundred overheated and a few caught fire. These batteries were used in laptop computers produced by a number of manufactures. Since then, production processes have improved and fires remain relatively rare. As Elon Musk, Tesla’s founder, has pointed out that with some 30,000 Tesla cars now on the road, fires have affected one in 10,000 vehicles—which sounds bad, but the equivalent statistic for petrol-powered cars is one in 1,300. And it is not just lithium batteries that cause fires. Old-fashioned lead-acid batteries can explode too. Nevertheless, lithium batteries, now almost ubiquitous in any portable electronic device, need to be treated with caution.
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:08 PM   #10
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So, how many amp hour battery would a person need, at a minimum?

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Old 05-27-2015, 05:31 PM   #11
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Can lithium battery be stored inside the trailer, or outside venting is still a requirement? I don't want the expensive battery be stored in the outside battery box accessible to everyone...
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:53 PM   #12
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No venting required just like the battery in your phone or laptop.
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Old 05-30-2015, 12:37 PM   #13
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I keep an eye on these types of batteries and posted on them occasionally. The costs are coming down, but they have a way to go.

Yes, you do need a special charger for them. They need 14.4 to 14.6 volts to charge. That is above most of the chargers you see in RV's - most have a boost mode that may get to 14.4, but not for a sustained period. So part of the project to use this type of battery is changing out the charger.

As was stated above, you can discharge them in freezing temps, but you can't charge them below 32 degrees F. You need to protect them with insulation or heating pads, which is problematic in that you use some of your battery capacity to keep them warm.

They can have their life cut short due to high temps. Technomadia has reported that their capacity is dropping off because they put them in an un-airconditioned outside compartment that has gotten quite hot in the desert conditions. So their expected ROI has dropped off making the financial argument for lithiums less compelling.

So like in most things, there are caveats to consider, as well as if it's a good choice for your expected useage pattern. Admittedly, the weight considerations may make it a good choice for small trailers. Not so sure on a large bus with gobs of payload capacity.
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Old 06-01-2015, 01:05 PM   #14
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Thank you so much, Norm! I didn't know any of this before. I hope by this time next year I'll have enough experience to know how to apply it.
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