Safety in Government Campgrounds

[Raz]

This past summer we returned to a small NFS campground in the Bighorn mountains of Wyoming. Since our last visit the campground was now administered by a concession. Seven of the 9 sites were now reservable. They all had tags. Checking the dates we found one open for the night. Of the 2 first come first serve sites one was taken. The second was a double, therefore you had to pay twice the price. The concession, Gallatin Canyon campgrounds has an interesting web site.


Gallatin Campgrounds

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Raz

This past summer we returned to a small NFS campground in the Bighorn mountains of Wyoming. Since our last visit the campground was now administered by a concession. Seven of the 9 sites were now reservable. They all had tags. Checking the dates we found one open for the night. Of the 2 first come first serve sites one was taken. The second was a double meaning you had to pay twice the price. The concession, Gallatin Canyon campgrounds has an interesting web site.


Gallatin Campgrounds

We've run into something similar on several occasions .
We drove into a State Park . , there are multiple camp sites available, they can not give you one of the vacant sites because the site is reservable and you don't have a reservation , you then have to get on your cell phone and make reservations and at that point the Ranger can now allow you to camp .
When I asked why all this BS , the answer I got was the park has no access to Reserve America computer system so they don't know which sites are reserved and this method assures Reserve America gets its' $10 reservation fee
Another example of a great public private partnership

[k0wtz]

raz they get a cut off reserved sights burns me up!!


bob

[Jon in AZ]

I believe reservations have become an important part of the system, given the undersupply of developed campsites relative to demand. It's no different than hotels and motels. Would anyone set out for a popular location and trust to chance whether a room might be available on a walk-in basis?

I can also understand why parks no longer want to handle cash and credit cards on site. It's labor-intensive and invites trouble in isolated locations.

However, the flat $10 fee- whether you book a night or a week, a $50 site with full utilities or a $10 primitive site- seems arbitrary and unfair. The marginal cost for a single reservation is relatively small for the vendors, because the system is fully automated. Most of the investment is in equipment and software.

As the number of reservable sites multiplies, I think it's high time to renegotiate the terms. Perhaps a percentage, 5-10% of the site cost, subject to a relatively modest minimum, maybe $2.

[RogerDat]

You make your own safety, by trusting your instincts and having a bit of pre-assessment and planning for how to deal with a situation. Head up and eyes open make you not only more aware but you look like less of a potential victim.


Air horn, wasp spray, bear or pepper spray, loud whistle, portable siren device or strobe, your car alarm, fire extinguisher all offer non fatal responses to danger. Just remember the level you raise the violence to can be higher than it would be otherwise. Knives & guns imply deadly force so if you confront a would be thief with a knife yes he may well determine that he/she will win a confrontation and the level of force is more likely to be deadly.

Even if comfortable with a firearm one should have non-lethal options appropriate to your size and physical abilities.

Knowing where help is located. Thinking of what you might do if confronted by a mugger, or caught someone stealing or where attacked or if those folks over there keep drinking and party well into the night. Having bear spray is pointless unless as you go to bed you put it ready to hand, with a flashlight and consider what you would need to do if you have an intruder on 4 legs or 2.

I have been camping for 1/2 a century. Only time anyone brings a firearm is generally for back country boondock locations. Most problems have involved loud late night campers or people who are rude or inconsiderate. Typically young people doing the party at the lake or river thing. Or running a generator all night at a rustic spot so the AC will work. Arrrgh! Thing is none of this was really much of a threat to my safety. Raccoons can sort of be a threat to one's sanity but probably won't kill you.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Booze and drugs only bring out whats already in someone, they don't create evil from nothing.

[Vtec]

And this news just in:

Boulder Lake Campground closed due to "potential threat"

What kind of threat from a land owner can close a very popular national forest campground for an entire season?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Vtec

And this news just in:

Boulder Lake Campground closed due to "potential threat"

What kind of threat from a land owner can close a very popular national forest campground for an entire season?

ah, bit of googling and reading various regional press stories and one of them included...

The Oconto County Sheriff's Department says a landowner near the campground had made threats last summer against camp goers.

The sheriff says there is no danger to the people in the area now and the issue has de-escalated over the past several months.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Vtec

And this news just in:

Boulder Lake Campground closed due to "potential threat"

What kind of threat from a land owner can close a very popular national forest campground for an entire season?

We have a couple of acquaintances who live in that area . Supposedly there is a fringe group in the area that has an objection to the Federal control of land in Northern Wi . They have made threats against several different government authorities. So far from what I've been told it is all talk . The NFS has shut down several parks / campgrounds for 2018 in that area under the guise of lack of funding or maintenance . Your guess could be as good as mine, it could be a bunch of BS or it could hold some truth. Supposedly their is also a similar radical group in the Janesville Wisconsin area.

[John in Santa Cruz]

getting back to the original question, here's my lifetime of anecdotes.

I'm a native Californian. Born in Marin County in the 50s, lived in SF in the 60s, Marin in the 70s, Monterey in the 80s, and Santa Cruz since then. My family is still in Marin.

I've camped up and down the west coast and national parks as far east as yellowstone since I was a wee kidlet. when i was a college student (early 70s), I hitchhiked across the country and camped in culverts and on hilltops.

Never had any theft problems other than my wife's old bike stolen at a music festival, after 15 years of the same festival at the same campsite with the same bikes and never locking anything. only had a few incidents of brushing up against crazy people. no big drama.

[k0wtz]

we have floating streams in mo hard on the land owners guess where they poop? disgusiting on guy even got shot over this type of nonesens then they don't barr booze in canoes. then we have the big city types roll in.

your are so right rogerdat!!! but sometimes things don't work out.


just trouble

bob

[Tom 72]

When someone cites that they have done something for a long time, that is an anecdote, not a statistic. Example: "Well I've never been murdered, therefore..." Yes, I exagerate to make a point, but it is useful to point out that very few murder victims post here. Similarly, people who were crime victims while camping just might give up camping, so let's be careful drawing conclusions from first hand reports.
I feel comfortable saying that in general, the further away you are from populated areas, the longer it takes for law enforcement to respond. That means wherever you are be aware of your surroundings. Sure, leaving can be one way to avoid conflict.

[RV Doctor]

John.
We camped beside you at Lake Cahuilla after you left Quartzite last February.
Are you going to Quarzite this year?

[lewisma9]

Another way to look at RV crime is to note all the new security products that have come online. For example, many/most RVs now come with locking water tanks (to prevent anyone from adding distasteful or dangerous stuff, I presume); locking front containers for batteries &/or propane tanks; I even saw a lockable cap to go over the front ball joint connecter, so someone can't haul off your trailer when you are away.

Now, this could just be the market taking advantage of nervous consumers. But it also could be the result of our times, when this kind of crime is indeed more prevalent. I don't know the answer.

[RV Doctor]

M.
Security products are nothing new but folks are sure broadening their use of them that is for sure.
Case of lockable fresh water fill ports. Good reason for sure.
I had a customer whose family was always getting sick when they went camping. It wasn’t until they were home one day and saw a neighbour kid relieving himself in said port.
Do what you can to prevent being a victim.

[Byron Kinnaman]

There's some people that seem to be afraid of their own shadow. And others that don't worry about things. I think the latter have spent much of their life outside in the remote areas the former have lived in cities where crime is common.
My youth was spent in a very rural area where crime just didn't happen. The neighbor kids and I slept outside in yards part of summer, no tent just blankets on the ground.
As adults my family and I camped in all sorts of places, campgrounds, National Parks, State Parks, and of course no campgrounds but wilderness back country. The only place of any concern was State Parks.

Most criminals take advantage of easy pickings, which would mean cities or close to cities. A single family many miles away from the city is not likely to be bothered.
You're at a far larger risk of hurt and damage just driving to someplace than camping.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

There's some people that seem to be afraid of their own shadow. And others that don't worry about things. I think the latter have spent much of their life outside in the remote areas the former have lived in cities where crime is common.
My youth was spent in a very rural area where crime just didn't happen. The neighbor kids and I slept outside in yards part of summer, no tent just blankets on the ground.
As adults my family and I camped in all sorts of places, campgrounds, National Parks, State Parks, and of course no campgrounds but wilderness back country. The only place of any concern was State Parks.

Most criminals take advantage of easy pickings, which would mean cities or close to cities. A single family many miles away from the city is not likely to be bothered.
You're at a far larger risk of hurt and damage just driving to someplace than camping.

I grew up in a city of 2 million people ( now 4 Million). I slept outside under blankets just like you , and we never locked our garage , bikes or cars.
My Mom grew up in a small rural town of 600 . Back in the 50's they made the largest illegal gambling bust in the state's history in that town and about ten years,ago they made the largest meth bust ever in the state's history.

The school in our small town in Wisconsin has a higher drop out rate , teen pregnancy rate , expulsion rate , truancy rate ,alcohol rate and scores lower on college entrance exams then the inter city Schools in Milwaukee.
The perception that rural living is so much better and safer than living in an urban area is not always borne out by the facts.
I will admit it is fun to fool yourself into a false security at times.

[Bruce H]

The political mechanizations in government have absolutely nothing to do with safety while camping.

Having every aspect of living sanctified and validated by federal, state and municipal government is not necessary for life.

[lewisma9]

Originally Posted by RV Doctor

M.
Security products are nothing new but folks are sure broadening their use of them that is for sure.
Case of lockable fresh water fill ports. Good reason for sure.
I had a customer whose family was always getting sick when they went camping. It wasn’t until they were home one day and saw a neighbour kid relieving himself in said port.
Do what you can to prevent being a victim.

YIKES!!! I never could have imagined this! But there are people who put laxatives or even razor blades in grocery store sweets, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at anything.

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

We've run into something similar on several occasions .
We drove into a State Park . , there are multiple camp sites available, they can not give you one of the vacant sites because the site is reservable and you don't have a reservation , you then have to get on your cell phone and make reservations and at that point the Ranger can now allow you to camp .
When I asked why all this BS , the answer I got was the park has no access to Reserve America computer system so they don't know which sites are reserved and this method assures Reserve America gets its' $10 reservation fee
Another example of a great public private partnership

The parks do know which campsites are reserved. Reserve America has to send the park a list of reserved sites every day so the signs can be put on the site of who and for how long the site is for. I've never run into a park that had a site empty that the park ranger would not let you have for one night. They never let you have more than one night in case there has been a reservation for the next night. Sounds like the ranger just wanted the park to get the fee.