Scamp newbie questions -- any help greatly appreciated!

[KSM]

Hi there, I actually looked at this trailer a week ago in Menifee CA on Briggs Rd. It was listed for $4500. It looked pretty good but as it was the first Scamp I had ever looked at I didn't feel the urge to buy. When I called back a couple of hours later with a question I was told it had sold. I was immediately disappointed feeling I has missed out. Sunday evening I saw the ad you've referenced. I was going to view "that" trailer yesterday morning but traffic was bad and it was a two hours away so I canceled. For some reason I began having a hunch that something was up with this trailer. I looked at the ad again and actually recognized the license plate from the "first" trailer. Same trailer. I texted the original seller who said they accepted $3400 for it after I looked at it. So it's a flip. It looked decent to me. The AC is a portable window AC unit under the front bunk. Frame, door, axles all looked good. I actually wish I bought it first time round. When I texted the new guy saying I knew he was flipping it he cut off all communication with me.

[Mr. W.]

People tend to get a little cranked when they "catch" somebody flipping an item, as though they think the person should pass on the great deal they got to the next person. Flipping is a perfectly legit practice. That is basically what every store in the country does -- buy it cheap, and sell it quickly for a profit. It is only a problem when the flipper tries to cut corners or misrepresent the item.

It looks like there is some discoloration on the wall under the kitchen window, too. Realistically, if the title is clear, and the floor is solid, this is a buy, whether or not it is exactly as described. But, I don't see any signs of proper venting for a window A/C unit. That may be under the floor, but that can be tricky to make it work right.

For an experienced buyer, who knows what to look for and what paperwork is required, this could be good. For a newbie, I'd pass.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Paul E Henning

People tend to get a little cranked when they "catch" somebody flipping an item, as though they think the person should pass on the great deal they got to the next person. Flipping is a perfectly legit practice.
.

Yup it is and I don't get cranky when someone trys to flip something & am not seeing that on this thread either.

BUT I do get REALLY Cranky when someone tries to rip someone off by claiming something that is not supportable ! In this case a trailer the age of the trailer!! Its not off by a year or two its off by a decade or two.

[Bob Miller]

And, moreover, the seller claims he is selling it "For his Uncle".

As mentioned earlier, "Flipping", without a title in the current sellers name, is illegal in California and, after passing through 1, 2 or as many as 4 owners, the buyer has almost no recourse if the title proves to be flawed. Moreover, if the registration isn't current, and there was no non-op paper filed, the buyer can be liable for up to 5 years back registration and penalties before it can be registered.

Most "Fippers" I have encountered, and I have run into a lot of them when doing RV inspections, are no better than a 4th tier used car salesman, and arwe not to be trusted.

That old adage applies: How do you tell if they are lying to you? Easy, their lips are moving.....

BTW: Maybe, just maybe, the current flipper got ripped by the last seller about the actual age of this Scamp .... As my cousin Vinny once mumbled, "If you live by the gun, you will die by the gun" ..... yuk, yuk.

[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Yup it is and I don't get cranky when someone trys to flip something & am not seeing that on this thread either. BUT I do get REALLY Cranky when someone tries to rip someone off by claiming something that is not supportable ! In this case a trailer the age of the trailer!! Its not off by a year or two its off by a decade or two.

I was wondering if somebody did a great deal of work to an older trailer and somehow ended up with a title listing it as a much newer trailer. Such hi-jinx do occur. If it is a good solid unit it is no biggie but a buyer does need to know what they are getting into. Which sometimes does not happen in a flip.

There was another trailer listed recently that was pretty obviously a flip. The seller indicated it did not need much and mostly “just cleaning”. A couple of questions later it was obvious it needed much more than that. I don't think the seller was being especially deceitful; but he certainly posted it too quickly and sloppily without describing it accurately.

[Bob Miller]

[QUOTE=Paul E Henning;485224]"Flipping is a perfectly legit practice"


Not so in California where that trailer is offered for sale. Unless you have a dealers license you cannot legally resell a vehicle/trailer unless it is titled in the sellers name. This also exists in many other states and is enforced to different degrees.

Google "Anti Curbstoning Laws"

And... when you shop in a store, you are usually buying something new at a given price point. Without profit margins stores could not exist.

BTW: They usually have to have a license and pay taxes to do that as well.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Timber Wolf

I was wondering if somebody did a great deal of work to an older trailer and somehow ended up with a title listing it as a much newer trailer. Such hi-jinx do occur.

Well looking at the photos of the trailer in question its a pretty clear it has not had all that much work done to it to justify it as a newer build which would be how one would go about getting it retitled to a newer year. 4 lug nuts would suggest its running on original running gear for starters. The cushion covers although not original are also about a decade old.

Do not think that putting in a new counter top, painting the old cabinet doors (which BTW were already done when the current buyer bought it) & zip waxing it would be enough to retitle it 18 years or more newer Although I am pretty sure there are lots of us here who wish it was enough

[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Well looking at the photos of the trailer in question its a pretty clear it has not had all that much work done to it to justify it as a newer build which would be how one would go about getting it retitled to a newer year.

Don't go putting words in my mouth, I never said it was "justified", just that such is known to happen.

[Bob Miller]

Until standardized 17 digit VINs started being use in 1981 almost any kind of change could be made, especially in the deep south and a few other states where trailers aren't titled after 5 or 10 years and a quick "Wink-Wink, Nod-Nod will do the trick.

About the only legal year changes that I am aware of is if you bring a uised motorhome into CA that's built on a previous years chassis and then it gets registered by the year of the VIN rather than the year of the coach build. The 1987 Sunrader I bought in Portland, OR, became a 1986 when I titled it in CA, but my 1989 Sunrader Adventure, which was built on a 1987 chassis, because it was first registered as a 1989 in CA, kept that year designation.

[charleypartanna]

Again -- thank you to all of the awesome people that chimed in! So I'm passing on that sketchy "2001."

Fortunately, a 2008 16' side dinette model has come up for sale at a local dealer.

Could I impose on folks to comment on it? I've attached some pics. The dealer is asking $9,000, which seems like a fair price given the excellent-looking condition and all of the features (toilet, shower, awning, fridge, A/C).

Thanks again!

-- Charley

[Mr. W.]

See? See? See? Just say the word "flipper", and people start foaming. Separate out for a minute flipping in general, and flipping in this particular case. Clearly this trailer is misrepresented. It may be intentional, and it may not be. It may actually be his uncle. But, there are a LOT of red flags on this one.

But, flipping isn't always shady. Even in Cali, you can buy a trailer (or anything) cheap, and resell it high, perfectly legally, as long as you maintain the paper trail. Buy it, title it, sell it.

If you are "in the business" of flipping, you are still required to claim the profits as income. Most probably don't, but some do.

As always, do your homework, respect your gut, and caveat emptor!

[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by charleypartanna

Fortunately, a 2008 16' side dinette model has come up for sale at a local dealer.

Could I impose on folks to comment on it? I've attached some pics. The dealer is asking $9,000, which seems like a fair price given the excellent-looking condition and all of the features (toilet, shower, awning, fridge, A/C).
Thanks again!-- Charley

My Dos Centavos is this; given what I now know I will have cost wise in my 1988 Scamp 16 when done refurbing it, and that I now think I would prefer the side dinette over my layout 4, and that unit appears to have a large refrigerator and is in good shape, I would buy it (if I was you).

[floyd]

Originally Posted by charleypartanna

Again -- thank you to all of the awesome people that chimed in! So I'm passing on that sketchy "2001."

Fortunately, a 2008 16' side dinette model has come up for sale at a local dealer.

Could I impose on folks to comment on it? I've attached some pics. The dealer is asking $9,000, which seems like a fair price given the excellent-looking condition and all of the features (toilet, shower, awning, fridge, A/C).

Thanks again!

-- Charley

It looks bone stock and barely used! It is the most popular of the 16 Scamps. Look it over good, do it soon, and BUY IT before it is GONE!
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I have rescued many fiberglass trailers with no intent to keep them.
Lots of work and expense with a small profit at the end.
Fun projects, happy buyers, and a chance to meet nice people and make their lives a little better!

Who doesn't love a Flipper?...
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...spart=att&tt=b

[KevinPete]

I'd grab that one in a heartbeat, especially if the dealer stands behind it in any way. Looks really clean.

[Mike Magee]

Get down there and buy it. Oh, you could always try to dicker the dealer down, but it looks to be worth every penny of $9000 and then some.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Paul E Henning

See? See? See? Just say the word "flipper", and people start foaming. Separate out for a minute flipping in general, and flipping in this particular case. Clearly this trailer is misrepresented. It may be intentional, and it may not be. It may actually be his uncle. But, there are a LOT of red flags on this one.

But, flipping isn't always shady. Even in Cali, you can buy a trailer (or anything) cheap, and resell it high, perfectly legally, as long as you maintain the paper trail. Buy it, title it, sell it.

If you are "in the business" of flipping, you are still required to claim the profits as income. Most probably don't, but some do.

As always, do your homework, respect your gut, and caveat emptor!

--------------------------------------------

For the most part, those sellers that I would call "Flippers" usually do the following:

1. They buy the item at an unusually low price, either from an unknowledgeable seller or perhaps by even using NADA pricing (as was suggested on this site I am sorry to say) to drive the sellers price down.

2. It gets a cosmetic cleaning, lots of spray can painting over anything that looks suspect, a coat of tire shine, and is then sold with an ad that portends that it's "Like New", the seller has had lots of experience using the item.

and/or

3. The seller cooks up a story that they are selling it for a friend, relative, etc., etc.

What they usually don't do:

1. Retitle in their name or pay sales or registration taxes as may be required in that venue.

2. Update registration that may be out of date/expired.

3 Are clueless or silent about any safety issues that may exist, such as out-of-date tires, etc.

4. Know all that much about the item they are selling.

Another type of seller, that I call "Refurbishers"

Are those that buy, do moderate to major repairs, updates & remodeling, retitle and update registration and actually know something about what they are selling.

I think that Craigslist is rampant with the former "Flippers", I've run into all to many of them myself.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by charleypartanna

Fortunately, a 2008 16' side dinette model has come up for sale at a local dealer.

Could I impose on folks to comment on it? I've attached some pics. The dealer is asking $9,000, which seems like a fair price given the excellent-looking condition and all of the features (toilet, shower, awning, fridge, A/C).

Thanks again!

-- Charley

Buy it! and buy it fast!! If its as good as the photos look its a good bet the only thing you will need to deal with to be a real happy camper are new tires and a battery if original due to their age - assuming the dealer hasn't already replaced them.

[Carol H]

BTW Charley the new trailer with the side dinette does not have the bunk beds you indicated you are in need of for your two boys.... just the rear bed and the side dinette bed. If they are over the age of 10 I am pretty sure they would be happy sleeping outside in a small tent though! Most kids are.

[RogerDat]

+1 on the boys will probably like their own tent. In the event that you pull into a campground and it's late and pouring they can flip a coin for who gets the bed and who gets the floor with the sleeping bag pad. Or possibly depending on their size you might get two kids and an adult in the big bed. Have the one in the middle sleep with their head at the opposite end.

Flipping is fine but not being honest is unacceptable. Especially when someone drives for hours and finds themselves looking at something that has been grossly misrepresented.

Those Scamp logos are all jacked up. Too high on the wall should be a few inches below belly band and as someone else mentioned the street (drivers) side one is all wrong. The long stripe to the front comes off the bottom of the "S" not the top. The top of the "S" should have a short stripe toward the rear on that side. Older Scamps had the stripe touching the letter S but later models have a gap between the stripe and the letter. Look at the scamp web site which apparently the person who fixed this one never did.

Unless it was prep sanded to remove the logo "shadow" left by the original decal protecting the surface from weathering and then painted you would have arrived to see a somewhat less pristine looking camper than the pictures appear to show. There would be a "phantom" stripe and letters where the original decals were.

Given the age of that first camper, suspension and floor would both be suspect.

BTW- I replaced my axle with a 4 bolt hub so it would be original looking (and too cheap to replace my rims) but it's probably original on that first trailer since most would purchase the modern 5 bolt pattern if replacing the axle and since it is clearly from the 80's not 2000 that axle is probably due a replacement.

You dodged a bullet I would say.