Smoking Batteries (was: Battery problem in our Parkliner)

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by rabbit

Isn't it the case that one could simply put a jumper positive to positive and neg to neg and tap the jumpers mid run to the converter? I think we're brainwashed by those water pipe analogies. Isn't the "juice" (difference in potential) more or less physically everywhere at once rather than sequentially following a roadmap? I bet I'm in trouble now! I have a lot of dunce hats--one for every subject.

jack

You've got it Jack. All at once or close enough to not matter. Which ever way is most convenient.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I think it is due to the circuits in the converter/smart charger reading voltages and the charger shutting off when the first battery is charged but the second isn't in the incorrect setup thereby reducing your total. By connecting it the correct way, that will not happen.

Simply put it don't happen that way...
Electricity works a bit differently...
Both batteries will be charged to the same voltage no matter which way you connect them. Each battery will draw the amount of current it needs to charge at the same time. Since electricity travels at the speed of light it doesn't take long before the potential is in all places. I don't know about you but I can't measure the speed of light over a few inches of wire. From there Kirchhoff's Law and Ohm's Law take over.

[Bob Miller]

I think that the example and reason given is hocus-pocus. Unless your 12" long piece of wire between the two batteries ground posts is about a #16 you are just not going to drop any real voltage, even at 10 amps. I see it as technically correct, but an unnecessary concern in RV's. If it is, you need a bigger wire between your two batteries.

In fact, if it was a concern with a 12" piece of wire, how could we ever charge our trailers battery(s) from the TV's battery, as they are all connected in parallel and that wire is how many feet long?

That is a concern that only (Big Bang) Sheldon could dream up.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

See post#11 for diagram of proper hook up to your converter/charger. This eliminates the slave battery situation another source http://www.gearseds.com/files/twobat_onechgr2.pdf

[Ed Harris]

Hey,lets leave Sheldon out of this!

[Ed Harris]

As long as the batteries are the same,matching batteries then it does not matter which of those 2 methods are used.

If the batteries do not match then they will not both likely be charged optimally but they will still be charged mostly.

If the batteries are at opposite ends of the trailer then the resistance of the wire may be a factor but not requiring a silly method of connection even if it would be ideal?

As noted above this is exactly what the tow vehicle is doing when charging the trailer battery too.

[Birmingham1]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

In my UHaul, I installed a 30 amp circuit breaker right at the battery terminal so that any wire past the battery terminal itself is protected.

This may be really basic questions, but I am certainly no expert on RV wiring.

1. Did you install the circuit breaker on the wire feeding the batteries so that, in the event the converter goes crazy, it cannot give the batteries too many amps at once? Or did you install it on the wires leaving the batteries? Would there be any reason to do both?
2. The Parkliner has a 45 AMP Progressive Dynamics converter. If the OP were to install a circuit breaker (in the correct location) would they put in a 30? 45's look to be rare-ish. A 50?

Again, I apologize for the very basic questions, but I learn alot from everyone in these forums. I tried to Google search it but wasn't coming up with much that was helpful.

Mark

[Mimi Lee]

Thanks so much for all the eyes on this and the comments. It is really much appreciated.

I see no melted insulation or damaged wires, Paz. I'm do wonder if the using these type of batteries requires the wiring to be different as Jim is flagging. I took an intro to EE class 20 years and but don't remember much, should have paid more attention, (not that it would have helped since this is newer technology)

Unfortunatey we were long distance buyers and can't easily bring it back, but we will definitely have it looked at closer and make sure the converter checks out some place local.

[Birmingham1]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

As for having a metal strap running across the top of a battery, that is quite simply dangerous and a foolish thing to do. Not trying to sound mean about it, but just trying to be ( brutally ) honest.....that is dangerous.

Any ideas on how to install something that would be better?

When I Google Optima batteries (or really any battery for that matter, including the one in my truck) they mostly have a steel bar holding the battery down.

Is the main concern the metal strap has more potential flex than a steel bar? Do you think that as long as the metal strap is secure it is likely ok?

Just asking, hoping for someone to convince me one way or another!

Mark

[cpaharley2008]

Some interesting reading How is incoming charge distributed amongst multiple batteries wired in parallel? - batterybank electrical resolved | Ask MetaFilter.
Mimi,
Can you tell if your charger black/white wires is connected to one battery or if the black wire goes to one battery and the white wire to the other? that can help. The metal strap issue is the possibility that the metal could short out your battery if it were co contact both your positive and negative terminals. A plastic or rubber strap would not have that issue.

[Birmingham1]

Originally Posted by Mimi Lee

Thanks so much for all the eyes on this and the comments. It is really much appreciated.


Attachment 58944

In the picture from this post, it looks like something liquid dripped and splattered on the floor of the trailer. Any idea what that was? I am just wondering if heat on that liquid somehow generated the smoke.

[cpaharley2008]

Based upon your picture, the liquid stain doesn't explain the issue. But it does show that your converter feeds the first battery only, with second wires going to the other battery.

[Mimi Lee]

The liquid was spewing out of the battery when we opened up the lid.

[Ed Harris]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Some interesting reading How is incoming charge distributed amongst multiple batteries wired in parallel? - batterybank electrical resolved | Ask MetaFilter.
Mimi,
Can you tell if your charger black/white wires is connected to one battery or if the black wire goes to one battery and the white wire to the other? that can help. The metal strap issue is the possibility that the metal could short out your battery if it were co contact both your positive and negative terminals. A plastic or rubber strap would not have that issue.

Jim

I am not trying to be nasty here but this simply does not say what you think it does.
If you read every post and think about the nature of a battery bank with identical batteries this is just not a factor at all as long as the batteries are close together and in similar condition.

I am not sure why it is important to you to keep trying to make this same point but it just is not applicable here to this instance.

As far as the charger is concerned it sees just one battery.
As long as the batteries are the same and it looks like they are,they will divide the current from the charger equally and be considered charged by the charger when the proper battery internal voltage is reached.

Again this assumes that they are the same which they really should be in an RV battery bank.
The minuscule difference in the resistance in the wiring here is just not prt of this system either way the batteries are connected in this example,in other words it is not better or worse to make sure they are connected the way you show,they are the same.

[cpaharley2008]

Which battery, the one with two wires attached or the rear one with single wires attached?

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Ed Harris

Jim

I am not trying to be nasty here but this simply does not say what you think it does.
If you read every post and think about the nature of a battery bank with identical batteries this is just not a factor at all as long as the batteries are close together and in similar condition.

I am not sure why it is important to you to keep trying to make this same point but it just is not applicable here to this instance.

As far as the charger is concerned it sees just one battery.
As long as the batteries are the same and it looks like they are,they will divide the current from the charger equally and be considered charged by the charger when the proper battery internal voltage is reached.

Again this assumes that they are the same which they really should be in an RV battery bank.
The minuscule difference in the resistance in the wiring here is just not prt of this system either way the batteries are connected in this example,in other words it is not better or worse to make sure they are connected the way you show,they are the same.

I'm trying to figure out if this issue caused the charger to overcharge the first battery which may have spewed the acid causing the smoke. I think the articles say that the charger will act differently if there are multiple batteries, do they not? I did not have this issue when I used Optima batteries in my dual hookup, because of the hookup. I think the charger is treating this setup as 2 batteries vs one large battery if it were wired otherwise, just looking for answers.

[Mimi Lee]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Some interesting reading How is incoming charge distributed amongst multiple batteries wired in parallel? - batterybank electrical resolved | Ask MetaFilter.
Mimi,
Can you tell if your charger black/white wires is connected to one battery or if the black wire goes to one battery and the white wire to the other? that can help. The metal strap issue is the possibility that the metal could short out your battery if it were co contact both your positive and negative terminals. A plastic or rubber strap would not have that issue.

Jim the charger wires run to the same battery. The one on the right side closest to it.

[Birmingham1]

Originally Posted by Mimi Lee

The liquid was spewing out of the battery when we opened up the lid.

Yikes!

Again, no expert but means you have battery acid down there right? Might it be a good idea to sprinkle a little baking soda to make sure it is neutralized?

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Mimi Lee

The liquid was spewing out of the battery when we opened up the lid.

Don't touch it. If it came from the battery it's sulfuric acid. Get some baking soda and sprinkle it on. If it's acid it will bubble.

[Mimi Lee]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Which battery, the one with two wires attached or the rear one with single wires attached?

Out of both batteries from those round "outlets" opposite of the terminals. They are blue where they were coming out. The other sealed ones are still black.

[Francesca Knowles]

I'm puzzled by what I'm reading...can anyone explain the nature of the "smoke"? Is/was it hydrogen sulfide, plain steam, or what?

And:

How did the "smoke" get inside the living area of the trailer? Aren't batteries installed inside a trailer usually in a sealed compartment vented to the outside?

Francesca