Smoking Batteries (was: Battery problem in our Parkliner)

[accrete]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

...If they used the PD4045 it has a provision for gel cell charging that should have been set up by the Parkliner factory...

There have been a few mentions in this thread about "Gel" batteries...

And as an FYI...one thing to keep in mind when doodling with connections and such inside the Parkliner (My Parkliner #035 has Optima Blue Top AGM batteries.)...

AGM batteries _are not_ Gel batteries and should not be maintained/charged like them.

[BAMA & Pachyderm Posse]

I though Optima was a gel spiralcell battery design that`s a series of individual spiral-wound cells made up of two 99.99 %lead plates with a coating of lead oxide ? not fiberglass matt ? just asking

[gmw photos]

I am still betting that as I said in my first post in this thread that the batteries were being hit with over voltage. None of these batteries, whether they be flooded cell, AGM or gel like to be hit with extremely high voltage.

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

I am still betting that as I said in my first post in this thread that the batteries were being hit with over voltage. None of these batteries, whether they be flooded cell, AGM or gel like to be hit with extremely high voltage.

2X. I'd check the converter...

[BAMA & Pachyderm Posse]

Originally Posted by jon vermilye

2x. I'd check the converter...

me too 2 the motion

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by accrete

There have been a few mentions in this thread about "Gel" batteries...

And as an FYI...one thing to keep in mind when doodling with connections and such inside the Parkliner (My Parkliner #035 has Optima Blue Top AGM batteries.)...

AGM batteries _are not_ Gel batteries and should not be maintained/charged like them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then that leaves the question of: "Does Parkliner install and set up a battery charging system appropriate for AGM batteries?"

[deryk]

Yeah I agree. Most likely the charger didn't stop pumping juice into the battery and it cooked them. Ive seen it happen with cheap charger's but like everything else in this world, things to fail.

Im sorry that it scared you but I don't think this is a ParkLiner "problem", its a charger problem that can happen to any brand.

[LindaK]

If we still had our ParkLiner (or any other vehicle with a battery in an enclosed area), we would put it in a battery box vented to the outside. While what happened in Mimi's ParkLiner is rare, it did happen! To quote (again) Jim McIlvaine, eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc., www.facebook.com/optimabatteries,

Although people do it anyway, we would never recommend installing an unvented battery in any enclosed space, because there's a legitimate, albeit unlikely, safety risk involved.

For example, IF there is a voltage regulator failure, and IF the battery is severely overcharged, and IF this goes unnoticed, and IF the battery vents because the internal pressure exceeds the release pressure of the vents, the gasses are both flammable and toxic. This may sound like a lot of “ifs,” but attorneys and engineers get paid to plan for every worst-case scenario.

Here is a link to the sort of battery box that could be used: Vented Battery Box Large Colonial White - $27.26

[LindaK]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Doesn't anyone use battery boxes anymore? These metal and plastic straps will not contain a battery properly. The batteries need to be inside a battery box that is secured to the trailer, preferably outside.

Good point! For us, safety comes first!

[Thomas G.]

I'd recommend to the OP to have someone that understands electricity / electronics do some checks on the converter / charger and find a root cause. If you just replace the converter / charger and it is not compatible with the AGM batteries, you may have a repeat. There may even be another contributing factor, like a parasitic load that allowed the batteries to get too far discharged, resulting in a very rapid recharge rate when plugged in.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

I'd recommend to the OP to have someone that understands electricity / electronics do some checks on the converter / charger and find a root cause. If you just replace the converter / charger and it is not compatible with the AGM batteries, you may have a repeat. There may even be another contributing factor, like a parasitic load that allowed the batteries to get too far discharged, resulting in a very rapid recharge rate when plugged in.

I agree with Thom.
Furthermore, I suggest that at a minimum the batteries be contained inside a standard battery box with top. I blew up a sealed battery that was inside a battery box by overcharging. (my bad). The disposal and cleanup were not a problem since everything was contained inside the box. There's vents in the top and the box kept all the electrolyte from running all over my garage. I just simply took the battery in the battery box to the recyclers.

[Byron Kinnaman]

There's lots of possible causes for the battery failure to happen. One is moisture inside the converter killing the over voltage protection circuit. Without getting my hands on the trailer and converter it's really difficult to say what happened. With that in mind here's a couple tips to prevent moisture damage to trailer and electronic equipment while in storage.

1. Make sure there's some sort of dehumidifying in side the trailer. I use Dri-Z-Air. It's passive and doesn't require any power.
2. Check on the trailer at least once a month while in storage. This includes making sure the dehumidifying stuff is still working and checking battery charge condition. There's small plug in devices that make this very easy.
3. Open areas where electronic equipment is located to encourage circulation. This will reduce condensation.
4. If possible a little heat is a good idea, though not necessary.
5. Use a battery maintainer of some kind to keep the battery or batteries topped off and desulfated. Less important with AGM batteries provided--
6. Make sure all 12 Volt stuff is off, including the fridge control. Keep the propane detector on.
7. Make sure the propane detector is one of the low current type. Mine is 38 mAmp, some are over a 100 mAmp or .1 amps.

In my Humble opinion I believe these things will reduce the possibility of major problems.

[cpaharley2008]

I feel there was a combination of factors, one of which was the improper wiring that caused the first battery to work harder while the second battery was starved. This caused an imbalance between the two batteries over time. However the converter treated them both equally and thus overcharged.
The batteries should be installed in a proper box outside the living space, everyone agrees. The converter should be checked, everyone agrees. To prevent future issues, try rewiring the batteries.
See here for my reasoning SmartGauge Electronics - Interconnecting multiple batteries to form one larger bank

[Francesca Knowles]

Still trying to understand what I'm reading...Question re. your use of the words "improper wiring", Jim. Is that a reference to the way the wires are routed?

To my admittedly untrained eye, the link you just posted appears to illustrate more efficient wiring routing methods- I don't see any indication there that the routing used by Parkliner can/will lead to the kind of catastrophic failure that happened here.

What is this novice missing?

Francesca

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I feel there was a combination of factors, one of which was the improper wiring that caused the first battery to work harder while the second battery was starved. This caused an imbalance between the two batteries over time. However the converter treated them both equally and thus overcharged.
The batteries should be installed in a proper box outside the living space, everyone agrees. The converter should be checked, everyone agrees. To prevent future issues, try rewiring the batteries.
See here for my reasoning SmartGauge Electronics - Interconnecting multiple batteries to form one larger bank

I know you read it on the internet. However those of us that are electronic, electric professionals don't agree with your wiring issue. It's bogus and silly. Not everything on the internet is accurate. These kinds of things start with somebody that doesn't understand and propagates to all sorts of places where the writers don't know what they're talking about. So far there's at least 3 here that understand that this wiring issue is sillyness. You can do this if you like, you can also make sure you hold your mouth just right while fishing, the effects of both are identical.

[cpaharley2008]

Francesca, Method #1 is used by Parkliner,, method#2 is the correct way, the article explains what happens if one method is used over the other.
At least this article can explain what causes the imbalance, other readings state that with imbalance batteries you can have the result that occurred. It makes sense to me, and it is an explanation. I can't find a better solution to the problem at hand. As far as finding it on the internet, that is what exactly you are trying to expel to me and others, is it not? I trust sources that are in the business.

[Ed Harris]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Francesca, Method #1 is used by Parkliner,, method#2 is the correct way, the article explains what happens if one method is used over the other.

While you are at last correct Jim that Parkliner does it one way and your article suggests doing it another way I just can not understand your need to be "Right" about this wiring topology which is just not a factor at all and certainly not a factor contributing to any issues in the Parkliner here?

Even if for fun we agree you are right this is the most inconsequential of all factors here and in no way has anything to do with the Smoke.

I am glad you found what you are looking for but as Byron so well put it,this is silly. It has nothing to do at all with the problem at hand.

[Jon Vermilye]

While I have read & discussed the methods of parallel wiring of batteries with others on other forums, my electrical experience cannot accept the fact that it makes any difference unless someone had invented new electrical current laws. Have to agree with Byron until someone can present proof of the difference.

I'm still betting on a problem with the converter overcharging the batteries - remember, both overheated & outgassed.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by deryk

Yeah I agree. Most likely the charger didn't stop pumping juice into the battery and it cooked them. Ive seen it happen with cheap charger's but like everything else in this world, things to fail.

Im sorry that it scared you but I don't think this is a ParkLiner "problem", its a charger problem that can happen to any brand.

Deryk it is a Parkliner problem if they failed to put in place guards to protect the trailer and the people in it in the event of an electrical equipment failure which you are correct can and do happen. I know that at least 3 of the current fiberglass trailer manufactures (who knows perhaps they all do) put safeguards (inline fuses at the battery) on their trailers to make sure that when electrical problem such as a failed charger takes place no harm is done to the trailer or the people in it. It wouldn't surprise me if there wasnt actually some RV Electrical code that requires it. That safeguard doesnt in this situation appear to be in place on the Parkliner.

Bottom line is if you own a Parkline you should probably go check your trailer and make sure its got a fuse or circuit breaker right at the battery. If it doesnt then install one to protect yourself and your trailer.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye

While I have read & discussed the methods of parallel wiring of batteries with others on other forums, my electrical experience cannot accept the fact that it makes any difference unless someone had invented new electrical current laws. Have to agree with Byron until someone can present proof of the difference.

I'm still betting on a problem with the converter overcharging the batteries - remember, both overheated & outgassed.

The author of the linked article doesn't show his math, but does indicate that he was using a hypothetical 100 amp current flow. At the level of amperage that a camper uses, the resistance difference of the wires between the batteries would be significantly diminished.

I think that you are right about the nature of the problem, root cause is TBD. No way did the wiring between the batteries cause the issue.