Some Things to Think About

[Bruce H]

Here is a link to one of a series of articles about problems in the RV world. This one talks about quality problems in manufactured RVs:



RV Industry Death Spiral ? Part 2: Manufacturers in race to the bottom | RV Daily Report

[thrifty bill]

Great article that captures the problem well. Wall Street Journal had a great article on Elkhart, IN RV manufacturers a couple of months ago. With unemployment at 1% there are no people left to hire. Meanwhile RV production and sales are booming. So they have stopped drug testing, use prisoners from the local prison, and more. Turnover is so high they are giving out bonuses if you stay one month!

As an old manufacturing manager, turnover is a killer. The best trading in the world can’t overcome high turnover. Experienced workers plus robust processes and good training = excellent quality.

It’s pretty scary and as the article mentions, not limited to just lower priced trailers either!

[Gompka]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

Great article that captures the problem well. Wall Street Journal had a great article on Elkhart, IN RV manufacturers a couple of months ago. With unemployment at 1% there are no people left to hire. Meanwhile RV production and sales are booming. So they have stopped drug testing, use prisoners from the local prison, and more. Turnover is so high they are giving out bonuses if you stay one month!

As an old manufacturing manager, turnover is a killer. The best trading in the world can’t overcome high turnover. Experienced workers plus robust processes and good training = excellent quality.

It’s pretty scary and as the article mentions, not limited to just lower priced trailers either!

i agree, turnover means the same mistakes are betting made over and over. Hopefully, they are caught down the little, but that is not guaranteed.

[Jon in AZ]

We've been having this conversation a while...
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...-rv-75606.html
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...4-a-75679.html

I guess they should just keep putting the information out. Nothing has changed.

The are a number of ways to beat the odds. Build your own. Do your own repairs. Buy used. Buy molded. Buy factory direct. Buy simple.

[Steve Carlson]

Originally Posted by Bruce H

Here is a link to one of a series of articles about problems in the RV world. This one talks about quality problems in manufactured RVs:



RV Industry Death Spiral ? Part 2: Manufacturers in race to the bottom | RV Daily Report

This report is over two years old... I'm sure all of the problems have been fixed now...

[Spongelander]

Reuters has been following this fairly closely, with a couple pieces on Elkhart that are interesting reading. There's a lot of piecework pay, which explains quality levels.

Here is one https://www.reuters.com/investigates...rkers-elkhart/

And a bit from the Wall Street Journal: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ana/ar-AAvvX6Z
Finally, one more from this week - Inventories are a bit high; the industry may have got a bit ahead of itself:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/11/u...-slowdown.html

[AD5SX]

Hi all,

Yes, my wife and I are planning to pick up our new Casita SD in Rice TX on Oct 1.

I'll update everyone once we get home. We are planning to spend 2 days and nights at American RV park, near the Casita factory, to test the Hamster out. We are excited, never owned a trailer or any other RV before. I found out after speaking to owners and researching several forums a molded fiberglass trailer is right for us.

Take care everyone,
Paul
AD5SX

[thrifty bill]

One nice thing about several molded trailer manufacturers is the are not in Elkhart! Scamp is up in MN, Casita is down in TX, etc. and they each only make a few models. So workers and supervisors can focus on just a handful of processes. I’ve seen a couple of the plants. No automation but the workers all appeared to be experienced and knowledgeable.

Speaking of “knowledgeable” workers, I did a tour of the BMW plant in Greenville/Spartanburg SC. The tour started with a short film, and then the tour guide bragged about their local employees, who all had matching BMW shirts with their famous roundell insignia. So then we go out to the factory where I see dozens of workers all wearing T shirts without the BMW logo. So I asked the guy, what’s with the t-shirts? His answer “those are all temps”. Imagine paying a BMW price for a car assembled by temps. No thanks!

[trainman]

We love our Casita and it's a very nice trailer, but maybe someday we might move up to a Oliver. My wife says why do we have to spend so much more money when there are trailers in the $30,000-$40,000 range that look very nice. The key word here is, LOOK. I will say here that I think the 5-6 fiberglass manufactures of trailers do a nice job on there trailers, I just like the Oliver for its fiberglass interiors and modern design, plus quality throughout. How about there customer service, No. 1 in my estimation.

trainman

[thrifty bill]

Two things hold me back on Olivers

1. Will it provide $40,000 more utility to me

2. I don’t care for the floorplan.

Fit, finish everything else I like.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

Two things hold me back on Olivers

1. Will it provide $40,000 more utility to me

2. I don’t care for the floorplan.

Fit, finish everything else I like.

Beautiful trailers. A major detractor is that unless you get the twin bed floor plan you still have to make the dinette into a bed every night. Also no option for a fridge larger than the stock 4.5 CF.

[Byron Kinnaman]

One must remember in all things "Bigger is Better".

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Beautiful trailers. A major detractor is that unless you get the twin bed floor plan you still have to make the dinette into a bed every night. Also no option for a fridge larger than the stock 4.5 CF.

All Oliver models have a separate side dinette for 2 people, so if desired, the rear bed area can be left set up for sleeping all the time.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

All Oliver models have a separate side dinette for 2 people, so if desired, the rear bed area can be left set up for sleeping all the time.

True. That only works if you travel solo or as a couple though. That doesn't work if you have kids or visitors.

[Fred762]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

All Oliver models have a separate side dinette for 2 people, so if desired, the rear bed area can be left set up for sleeping all the time.

WE live within a reasonable distance to the Ollie plant and did the 3-4 hour tour last winter. WEe just could not see the uuuge cost for 4 more feet of trailer for just the 2 of us.

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by Fred762

WE live within a reasonable distance to the Ollie plant and did the 3-4 hour tour last winter. WEe just could not see the uuuge cost for 4 more feet of trailer for just the 2 of us.

Let's be fair. An Oliver isn't just "4 more feet of trailer" compared to a Casita, a Scamp, or even an Escape. It's a big step up in terms of quality all the way around. Having said that, their floor plans don't work for us, nor does the smallish fridge.

[stude]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

Great article that captures the problem well. Wall Street Journal had a great article on Elkhart, IN RV manufacturers a couple of months ago. With unemployment at 1% there are no people left to hire. Meanwhile RV production and sales are booming. So they have stopped drug testing, use prisoners from the local prison, and more. Turnover is so high they are giving out bonuses if you stay one month!

As an old manufacturing manager, turnover is a killer. The best trading in the world can’t overcome high turnover. Experienced workers plus robust processes and good training = excellent quality.

It’s pretty scary and as the article mentions, not limited to just lower priced trailers either!

:I guess that means do not buy anything built in 2018/2019 Year RV's of any kind or make.
stude

[stude]

Originally Posted by rbryan

Let's be fair. An Oliver isn't just "4 more feet of trailer" compared to a Casita, a Scamp, or even an Escape. It's a big step up in terms of quality all the way around. Having said that, their floor plans don't work for us, nor does the smallish fridge.

:I agree about the small fridges, I often wonder why they do not raise the stove in a 13' say about 4" is about all one needs and then install a wider, taller fridge with small freezer but more room for the every day essentials. I Love the rig we have now with a 7Cubic 2dr Fridge/Freezer, I can go almost 16 days out before needing more stuff.
stude

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by stude

:I guess that means do not buy anything built in 2018/2019 Year RV's of any kind or make.
stude

Any of the Elkhart stuff I would be very cautious. Niche makers (most molded trailers) tend to be located in other areas. Hopefully they have a loyal, experienced workforce. Impression I got touring the Casita factory was that the shop floor employees met that description.

IMHO, manufacturers don't put enough emphasis on access to a highly trained and motivated workforce when picking factory locations. Logistics factors trump workforce.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

True. That only works if you travel solo or as a couple though. That doesn't work if you have kids or visitors.

Guess I'm confused about your point. Most molded trailers are set up for couples. More than 2 almost always involves convertible beds, including all of Oliver's models. The twin bed plan is no different; if anything it is less suitable for extra people because it lacks a larger dinette.

I can only think of one molded trailer with beds for 3-4, a bathroom, and a separate dinette for 3-4 that wouldn't have to be folded: a Scamp 19 standard. The irony is it requires a pick-up truck, not the most family-friendly tow vehicle option.

The larger Oliver's layout is constrained by its narrow width- unusual in that length and price class. The trade-off is towability.

I find the Oliver Elite II and the Bigfoot 25RQ an interesting study in contrasts. Similar price, both 4-season with well-above-average build quality, but very different answers to the same question: what does a couple with disposable income that spends a lot of time traveling want in a travel trailer? Would you rather have a sailing yacht or a cabin cruiser?

If your answer is a houseboat, you should probably be looking at stick-built fifth wheels...