Sway disaster... - Page 7 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-25-2015, 08:41 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
Without calling names, it's revealing to drive through Delaware. In Delaware people convicted of drunk driving get a black licence plate with white lettering. I like the concept, it serves as a reminder to all and an indicator to the police. There really are a lot of them.
Actually that is incorrect. Delaware license plate numbers are consecutive and the tags are revered for their low numbers. There is even a bidding war if a low number becomes available. They were all black with white letters until the 1950's where the color changed. Publicly branding a drunk driving conviction I'm sure violates one's civil liberties.
http://mail.shootmagazine.com/wildwe...808929152.html
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Old 04-25-2015, 08:56 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by kamalamak View Post
Our new TV is a 2015 Silverado 1500 with GVWR upgraded to 6900 lbs. We then had 3-inch lift kit added to the Casita. Owners manual says (even without the upgrade) that the WDH is optional for our size of trailer (< 7000 lbs). When we hitch up the trailer, the truck doesn't seem to move. We've always seen the WDH as a precaution but are now wondering if we really need it.
Pickups, especially with a lift will get very sketchy towing a trailer whenever you need to do an emergency maneuver or quick lane change. If it were me I would be using the WDH which would be added safety/stability
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Old 04-25-2015, 04:48 PM   #87
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Yes the dreaded "avoidance maneuver" sucks for tall vehicles, even when not towing. My tug is lifted and I think about having to swerve knowing the outcome could be bad, but take the risk as do all truck drivers on the highways. In northern California I had to make a quick lane change and actually drifted the Scamp sideways. The Jeep held tight and we didn't roll, so it was a good day! Pick up trucks have a front heavy weight bias, and springs in the rear for carrying pay loads. They actually ride better loaded than empty. A WDH will further unload the rear and place more weight on the front and trailer tires. It almost sounds counter productive, but could have some benefit in keeping the trailer from drifting like mine did. It could make the truck have more tendency to drift though. I would want to do some test maneuvers to see what works best. When my Scamp drifted out I had a friction anti sway in use. It actually helped force the trailer to break into the slide when you think about what it does. It adds friction to the hinge point. Interesting thought....
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Old 04-25-2015, 07:53 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Actually that is incorrect. Delaware license plate numbers are consecutive and the tags are revered for their low numbers. There is even a bidding war if a low number becomes available. They were all black with white letters until the 1950's where the color changed. Publicly branding a drunk driving conviction I'm sure violates one's civil liberties.
Delaware License Plate Tag T12152 Vintage 1951 - 1958 used, new for sale - Shoot Magazine - Wild West Collectibles
Jim,

You are right and I am wrong. I don't recall where that info came for but I obviously did not check it though I think it's a good idea. 7 states have tried to pass a law like that and it's only passed in MN and OH. Delaware is adopting an ignition interlock device.
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Old 05-07-2015, 03:10 PM   #89
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The NUMBER ONE contributing factor to bumper pull trailer sway is a tongue that is too short --- Period.

Too short means an improper design, by the builder, that does not give enough length (leverage) from the trailer axles to the pivot point (hitch ball). In other words this results in the tow vehicle not having as much leverage on the weight of a trailer with a shorter tongue. If you can figure out a way to LENGTHEN THE TONGUE of your trailer that is the simplest way to reduce towed vehicle instability.

The number two factor (harder to fix) is a pivot point (hitch ball) that is an excessive distance from the tow vehicle back axle. This distance does two things: It acts as a lever that gives more leverage to the trailer vs the tow vehicle --- NOT A GOOD THING. The second thing: The longer the distance from TV axle to ball the more the ball moves (whips) sideways during turns. The tow vehicle turns and the ball moves sideways opposite to the center line of the combined vehicle turn direction. This swinging out starts the trailer turning opposite the turning direction of the tow vehicle --- ALSO NOT A GOOD THING.

DO NOT EVER USE ONE OF THOSE EXTENDED BALL MOUNTS THAT PUTS THE BALL ONE ~ TWO FEET BEHIND THE BUMPER OF THE TOW VEHICLE!

Weight distributing and friction sway control hitches are ALL dangerous, expensive attempts to compensate for poor design engineering.

Now you can talk about tow vehicle weight, suspension and trailer load weight distribution percentages etc.
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Old 05-07-2015, 03:31 PM   #90
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I have to agree with the above statements.
This is the reason I extended the frame and tongue on my 16' Scamp and one reason the VW TDI wagon tows well. The distance from the axle is fairly short, but about a foot further than the Golf it is based on. One reason the VW is #1 rated tow car in the UK many years.
Also the tow vehicle will handle no better with a trailer than it does without one. Poor handling vehicles don't really make better towing machines.
Pickup trucks MIGHT be the exception except for the rudimentary rear suspension and the high center of gravity along with the distance from the axle to the hitch ball.
Before I bought a new (to me) 2013 TDI Sportwagen We tired out almost every tow vehicle out there that has the capability to tow 3000+ lbs. (I know the US VW rates the Sportwagen at about 27 lbs, but the UK rated the same vehicle at 1500 KG) and they all were lacking in comparison in handling and power. Or at least torque and acceleration. I can't speak for power per se, but the 140 HP and 240 ft/lbs seems to be worth more than the others.
WIth the superior rear suspension and balance the VW/Scamp combo tracks nicely and the stability is pretty deadbeat. It is the typical "can't tell its back there" thing.
The wagon also has trailer electronic stabilization when the factory electrical kit is installed.
The longer tongue also helps reduce the vertical load on the TV which for small cars is a good thing. I will be adding air bags to level the wagon for headlight aiming. This is the only thing that I think needs attention. Probably lots of others need them too.
The DOT tests indicate the the airbags give about 1/2 of the increase instability of the weight distributing hitch. This is without unloading the rear end and the complication.
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Old 05-07-2015, 03:57 PM   #91
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The one time that I had a sway issue, I was pulling a 6' x 8' utility trailer that I had overloaded grossly and not enough tongue weight. I got up to about 25 mph when the sway began. I stopped and redistributed the weight then went on my way, never exceding 30 mph. I was only going three miles, so speed was not an issue.

The question I have is, I know about applying trailer brakes from the controller, but how do you apply trailer brakes only with surge brakes? In a couple of months, I am renting a U-Haul to bring some furniture back from Ohio. Since U-Haul requires only four pin electrical, I assume that the brakes are surge.
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Old 05-07-2015, 04:20 PM   #92
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The question I have is, I know about applying trailer brakes from the controller, but how do you apply trailer brakes only with surge brakes? In a couple of months, I am renting a U-Haul to bring some furniture back from Ohio. Since U-Haul requires only four pin electrical, I assume that the brakes are surge.[/QUOTE]


You can't.
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Old 05-07-2015, 05:12 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Borrego Dave View Post
The question I have is, I know about applying trailer brakes from the controller, but how do you apply trailer brakes only with surge brakes? In a couple of months, I am renting a U-Haul to bring some furniture back from Ohio. Since U-Haul requires only four pin electrical, I assume that the brakes are surge.

You can't.[/QUOTE]

Didn't think so!
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Old 05-07-2015, 07:20 PM   #94
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I think that VW US has a different agenda on towing that is not shared with VW ROW. One issue with the factory towbar setup is the 5 MPH bumpers which go away with that setup. ranted there is very little difference, but it has not been tested. Also the towbar does not have the factory provisions for two chains since the Euro setup is different using a breakaway system instead. Also there are no provisions for electric brake controllers and this has to be added (like many cars). However the trailer module has programming for the North American market. This module tells the caar there is a trailer attached and modifies the programming of the ESP, transmission, cooling, and engine to account for it.
I am posting the setup of my new car on the TDI forum along with purchasing information if anyone is interested.
I don't have much that is super useful to add here, but there is another hitch option now (as of about 6 weeks ago) from Torklift Central for the Sportwagen.. it does have the proper chain loops on both sides, but it is not really set up to add wiring (easily solved with a curt bracket). You can get it in either a 2" or 1 1/4" receiver version.

I installed mine in an afternoon and did the wiring another afternoon - all fairly straightforward, and aside from scratching my head a few times on various parts of the trim removal process to mount the brake controller and then to run the brake controller wiring from the front, I had no issues (well, apart from the screws included to attach the plug being too short - it's pictured with zip ties holding it in place until I get longer screws).

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Old 05-07-2015, 09:18 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Dennis mn View Post
The one time that I had a sway issue, I was pulling a 6' x 8' utility trailer that I had overloaded grossly and not enough tongue weight. I got up to about 25 mph when the sway began. I stopped and redistributed the weight then went on my way, never exceding 30 mph. I was only going three miles, so speed was not an issue.

The question I have is, I know about applying trailer brakes from the controller, but how do you apply trailer brakes only with surge brakes? In a couple of months, I am renting a U-Haul to bring some furniture back from Ohio. Since U-Haul requires only four pin electrical, I assume that the brakes are surge.
Dennis,
Since you cannot activate the surge trailer brakes just make sure to load the UHaul properly. Erring on the side of too heavy tongue weight is better than too light. You may have to temporarily re-aim your head lights for the trip if you tug sags too much.
Some of the UHaul rentals place the trailer axle dead center of the box which encourages badly balanced loads. Not all are like that, so look for one with the axle placed more toward the rear if you have a choice.
Russ
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:28 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by ruscal View Post
Dennis,
Since you cannot activate the surge trailer brakes just make sure to load the UHaul properly. Erring on the side of too heavy tongue weight is better than too light. You may have to temporarily re-aim your head lights for the trip if you tug sags too much.
Some of the UHaul rentals place the trailer axle dead center of the box which encourages badly balanced loads. Not all are like that, so look for one with the axle placed more toward the rear if you have a choice.
Russ
I most assuredly learned the lesson of tongue weight many years ago. The stuff I am hauling is fairly light, but I think I can load all but one wardrobe ahead of the axle.
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