Sway disaster...

[Paul O.]

The Hensley hitch that is mentioned in the link that Frederick posted
Woodalls Open Roads Forum: Friction anti-sway device use in rain or wet roads
is very interesting. It puts the virtual point of connection (center of turning) forward, somewhere close to the rear axle. That makes it a little like a 5th wheel hookup. No friction is needed here. It is accomplished with a four-bar linkage, at the expense of putting different, and higher, forces on the frame of the TV. The pivots of the four-bar linkage must have some good bearings. I bet it costs a good bit more than the friction sway bars.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by MC1

Not a sway bar but for extra insurance we have a WDH with built in sway control. Works great. Note our trailer is heavier than our car and never have we had a sway issue. Straight as an arrow even with 40 MPH cross winds.

WDH hitches are not NOT recommend for light fiberglass trailers. Probably needed for heavy Airstream trailers.

[Dennis Clinton]

Just towed my MG from Utah to Nevada on a 6 x 12 trailer. Loaded it, made sure enough weight was in front of the trailer axle, lots of tie downs(probably more than necessary), didn't drive anywhere near the speed limit of 80, and had no problems. I've seen too many times towing done wrong and don't want to be the idiot!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

WDH hitches are not NOT recommend for light fiberglass trailers. Probably needed for heavy Airstream trailers.

Also not recommend for use by various auto manufactures and models.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

To stop and/or control sway once it starts, first there's some lever or switch on the brake controller that will allow you to just apply braking power to the trailer. That's the first step. No tow vehicle brakes, just trailer brakes.

The above is one item that a lot of folks new to towing are not aware off - use the trailer brakes only not the tugs is your best approach to stopping sway. Another reason for picking the location the brake controller is mounted carefully. You want to be able to reach the lever easily and not have to take your eyes off the road while trying to find it.

Often the first instinct of those new to towing is to hit the tugs brakes or hit the gas to try and pull the trailer out of the sway situation.... neither of which is a good idea.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

WDH hitches are not NOT recommend for light fiberglass trailers. Probably needed for heavy Airstream trailers.

I question blanket statements when discussing TV/trailer connections.

I am aware of many fiberglass TV/fiberglass combinations that are using a WDH and the owners are reaping the benefits.

This Reese 350 mini for example is made for smaller trailers like many glass eggs.

Reese - 350 Mini WD

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Probably needed for heavy Airstream trailers.

Yes but some vintage, smaller Airstreams are as light as 2,000lbs and use a WDH. Some glass trailers like the dual axle Bigfoots are well over 5,000lbs and use a WDH. Every combo is different and needs to be treated appropriately.

[Paul O.]

All this means that care and deliberation is in in order when deciding what to tow with what and how to connect those two. Manufacturers' specs and recommendations are sometimes incomplete at best and misleading at worst. What seems to be the same vehicle may have subtle differences depending on where they are made and what market they are sold in. It is good that somebody is trying to develop universal towing standards (as Carol H pointed out a few times), but those often end up too complex, restricting, or simply never get finished; I have low expectations here. In terms of towing, this forum is a nice, conservative group and there is one advice that all seem to agree on: Don't do anything stupid, think before you do.

A User's Manual example: "Tacoma does not recommend 5th wheel towing." - I am paraphrasing the text of the manual. As expected, there is no explanation, reason, nothing. Is it weight? wheelbase? track width? engine power? transmission limitations? frame design? what am I missing? Yet, small 5th wheels are towed with small/medium trucks all over the place.

Safe towing, y'all.

[james kent]

If Byron was doing between 55-60 then the truck and trailer were more than likely doing overb70


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

[james kent]

To be able to pass 2 vehicles. Speed and tongue weight were the most likely reasons for the loss of controll.


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

[redbarron55]

An interesting not about trailer and car stabilization is that since 2006 in Europe electronic stabilization has been required for trailer towing cars. My VW when the O.E.M. wiring kit and module is used for the trailer lights automatically detects the trailer and turns on what VW calls T-ESP and also modifies the fueling, cooling and braking control CPUs for the mode.
Here is a link to one discussion:
http://www.fyldecoasttowing.co.uk/do...it%20works.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWEHGlDqdcs

Here is a clip of the new Ford Edge trailer sway control system:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyXRH2YFU7U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWGrKV6CxsM

These systems are required in Europe and are now coming into the US and should be required here as well!

This why I am installing the entire package in my Jetta Sportwagen TDI and the reason this car is rated to tow 1800 KG in the rest of the world.

Since the VW has electronic power steering the system also gives "cues" to the driver for the proper direction to steer to correct for sway.

It is estimated that this system saves 800 lives a year in Germany.

[PrettylilTrilly]

So what I'm gathering is that I need to put brakes on my 1975 trillium 1300? I want to be safe while towing. I have a 2008 Ford Escape. Is this something I can do myself or should I take it into an RV shop?


Lilly The Trilly - 1975 Trillium 1300

[MC1]

Lyndsay.... suggest you start a new thread with your question about how to install brakes. Thinking you will get many more views and suggestions.

Good luck with the project. Adding brakes really is a good idea.

[PrettylilTrilly]

Originally Posted by MC1

Lyndsay.... suggest you start a new thread with your question about how to install brakes. Thinking you will get many more views and suggestions.



Good luck with the project. Adding brakes really is a good idea.

Thanks I will


Lilly The Trilly - 1975 Trillium 1300

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by MC1

I question blanket statements when discussing TV/trailer connections.

I am aware of many fiberglass TV/fiberglass combinations that are using a WDH and the owners are reaping the benefits.

This Reese 350 mini for example is made for smaller trailers like many glass eggs.

Reese - 350 Mini WD



Yes but some vintage, smaller Airstreams are as light as 2,000lbs and use a WDH. Some glass trailers like the dual axle Bigfoots are well over 5,000lbs and use a WDH. Every combo is different and needs to be treated appropriately.

I would suggest that you check with Dexter and their 2200 lb axle, (the axle that's on most 13' trailers). Also check with the trailer manufacturer about the extra stresses on the frame.
Now look at physics of what a wdh hitch does with regard to stresses. I can see one for tongue weights over 300 lbs, but not below.

[redbarron55]

With regard to the WDH and smaller cars and trailers the NTIS study (DOT) from 1979 indicates that airlift style load levelers give much the same benefit of the weight distributing hitch without the added stress to the chassis of either trailer ot TV.
You can find the studies here: EDC Library - Technical Reference listed under articles 1081,2,3,&4.
They have very interesting studies of small front wheel drive cars like at the time Citations and Horizons. Both pretty miserable cars by today's standards.
My own opinion is a car that handles poorly without a trailer does not get any better with one!
My experience with my VW has shown me that it handles well with and without the trailer and has pretty "deadbeat" stability while towing. That means that if you are driving steady state and induce a deviation with the steering wheel any oscillations are quickly damped out if any exists in the first place.
Front wheel drive cars were pretty well received by the scientists who performed the test. They also were pretty high on the airbags to level the car.
I plan to install air lifts on the rear of my Jetta Sportwagen to level the car if for no other reason than to the get the headlights in the correct alignment.

[Glenn Baglo]

Towing a tent trailer up a gravel incline with my front-wheel-drive Subaru, I came to a complete stop and had to back down to take another run at it. That was because there was not enough weight on the drive wheels. Air bags would do nothing to alleviate that problem.
As far as vehicle manufacturers saying not to use WDH, there are levels of such "warnings". In my Toyota manual it says "Toyota does not recommend". It doesn't NOT to, and the sentence is in black and white ( just like the instructions on how to operate the radio ). Warnings and advisories are on a yellow field and if really important, have an exclamation symbol. There is a difference.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Towing a tent trailer up a gravel incline with my front-wheel-drive Subaru, I came to a complete stop and had to back down to take another run at it. That was because there was not enough weight on the drive wheels. Air bags would do nothing to alleviate that problem.
As far as vehicle manufacturers saying not to use WDH, there are levels of such "warnings". In my Toyota manual it says "Toyota does not recommend". It doesn't NOT to, and the sentence is in black and white ( just like the instructions on how to operate the radio ). Warnings and advisories are on a yellow field and if really important, have an exclamation symbol. There is a difference.

I thought all SUbarus had front wheel drive..is that not true?

[Glenn Baglo]

Beats me. Some are AWD I think. I pointed out that it was front wheel drive because having the front wheels unweighted affects traction, and air bags don't redistribute weight. They just keep the headlights from pointing at the sky.

[Jon in AZ]

It's been quite a few years since any Subaru was front-only drive. Now they're all AWD and, at need, can send up to 90% of torque to the rear wheels. Note that some light-duty AWD set-ups (like that on our Honda CRV) can only send 50% to the rear.

[Glenn Baglo]

Mine was a 1987 GL Wagon. There was a lever to engage four-wheel-drive, but if you did that the car would stall if you tried to turn a corner in dry conditions. Then you had to back up ten feet ( in a straight line ) to disengage 4X4. Using 4X4 was a bit like playing chess. You had to think ahead a few moves.