T@B vs ?? - Page 5 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-28-2015, 12:00 AM   #57
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I went in to schedule my tow package and, of course, asked the burning questions. The Service Manager came over and joined in. He has horses and does A LOT of towing. (not with a VOlvo) He told me to get a WDH and I can tow up to 3500.... but wouldn't sign that.... (--as Bob predicted--). He said I would be fine and that my car was a sturdy strong workhorse. And no they didn't know why that 165lbs was on the books. We're going to call Volvo.
I'm to the point of being so saturated with info that I can't quite remember the answers to all of my questions. But I DO think I remember reading that the Volvos should NOT have a WDH! We did have a discussion here about this, but I haven't figured out how to go back and find it. At any rate, I'm kind of surprised the Service Manager would recommend this, but not surprised he wouldn't "sign that"!

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Old 07-28-2015, 12:11 AM   #58
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You need to look at YOUR instruction manual for YOUR Volvo.
On this, and other sites, people interpret what they read and then post.
So, "is not recommended" becomes "must not do".
People interpreted Toyota's "do not recommend" to mean "do not use" and then posted that as gospel. You need to go to your manual and then get the service manager to explain it.
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Old 07-28-2015, 05:51 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
So basically your friends at Can-Am would be not doing any custom hitch work if they were in Europe
We can be thankful we live in countries that.....

have Dollars, not Euro's,

the freedom to have professionals make mods and safety improvements to our TV's,

the right to buy a WDH

and to have the price of gasoline low enough we can all afford to take a trailer towing vacation without braking the bank.
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:00 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by ORshepherd View Post
And no they didn't know why that 165lbs was on the books. We're going to call Volvo.
It's the same old story. Where Volvo's are made they don't use or don't know anything about the WDH's. It is a North American thing.

The best explanation I know about was an article written in RV Lifestyle mag awhile ago. Here........... Can-Am RV :: HH-43-1
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:35 AM   #61
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WDH on a tiny trailer?!
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:53 AM   #62
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Well, as everyone hereabouts knows, the other two people I always suggest to check with before towing over manufactures limits are your insurance agent and your attorney, as you may be opening a huge liability door.
My mistake on citing the data from the wrong model of Volvo. That's what I get for trusting the accuracy of previously posted info. Why in the world would anyone post the wrong model's manual in this thread, anyway? Seems dippy.

Insurance agent and (particularly) attorney are the last two people I'd talk to (and me with a law degree, go figure). Lawsuits, let alone prosecutions, for towing a recreational trailer in excess of the tow vehicle's tow rating are extremely rare, bordering on nonexistent. Tow ratings are the manufacturer's 'cover my butt from liability' numbers based upon their standard product; modifying that product aftermarket can make many vehicles (not all) capable of towing more weight. But one should always seek mods at a shop with many years of experience (Can-Am RV is such a shop). Anyone who thinks that book numbers trump experience has forgotten the lessons of his or her own past.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:28 AM   #63
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Are you a practicing Attorney and is the preceding "Legal Comment and/or Advice"


Am I to guess that you combed through Nexus to come up with your comment about lawsuits pertaining to towing overweight "bordering on nonexistent"? If so, you are in disagreement with a practicing atty who posted otherwise about a year ago and effectively quashed this discussion until recently.


Looks like it's time to raise the population of the Gang of Four to the Gang of Five.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:45 AM   #64
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When I was looking at Scamps as my first trailer, I took them at their word on their site (Back then I think it was 1000-1200 instead of the now 1200-1500). They clearly state: "Hitch weight 100 pounds" and how was I to know the difference between a loaded and non-loaded trailer as a newbie as they did NOT spell it out??? I didnt so I called JIM COFFLAND my salesman. He told me they had "just weighed a trailer identical" to mine and it weighed (I cant remember the exact figure he gave me) but apx 1500lbs! When I finally weighed it, 1700 lbs with a 225lb TONGUE weight. This would be full propane- no water. My point was, that could have EASILY taken me over my tongue weight if I had been purchasing thinking I was ok.

There's only ONE way to know what you have-- WEIGH IT. But you cant do that when you're shopping for a trailer that hasnt even been built. Now, we have these weights posted on this site and that info can be invaluable to FG-owners wannabes.

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A full 20#propane tank weighs 38#... empty is 18#.
I think Scamps weights are good estimates, the tongue weight would be accurate as well without the front bath. Yours is of course a front bath and you weighed it empty without any water behind the axle, right?

You do mean to ask "TOW RATING" of that Volvo don't you?
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:52 AM   #65
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WDH on a tiny trailer?!
A good point Floyd, but not sure what the funny is all about.

Back in the 60's my dad was had an RV dealership. He towed everything from a 400lb Apache Scout to a 20' dual axle Holiday Rambler. At the time he had a full size Ford Galaxie V8. With a family of 4 in the car and traveling all over the continent he wanted the safest and best towing experience. Then one day he called up the Equalizer Rep and talked about the advantages of a WDH. Ten minutes after the discussion he had one on order.

After a short 10 min drive with the new equalizer installed he came home and said. I can't believe how good the trailers tows now. Who would have believed the difference. The trailer was a 13' Fan sticky that probably weighted 1,600lbs.

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Insurance agent and (particularly) attorney are the last two people I'd talk to (and me with a law degree, go figure).
Mike....wow....the time, effort, study, etc to get that degree...... I have to take my hat off to you.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:38 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Mike Magee View Post
My mistake on citing the data from the wrong model of Volvo. That's what I get for trusting the accuracy of previously posted info. Why in the world would anyone post the wrong model's manual in this thread, anyway? Seems dippy.
No problem but I suspect it may have had to do with the fact someone decided to post a photo taken on a different continent of a different Volvo model pulling a trailer we can't buy here in NA either Not to mention the trailer is not even close in size to the size of trailer the OP is interested in.

Not overly helpful to the OP & always a great way to high jack the thread and take it a little side ways.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:40 AM   #67
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Which all goes to prove a few things.


1. Towing with a 1960's full size Ford Galaxy without a WDH may be a bad idea. But, compared to towing with most modern vehicles, it's still a bad idea.


2. What we learned in kindergarten may not be valid 60 years later.


3. Having a law degree does not make one a lawyer, not to compare, but in a recent case in LA it sure didn't...... read the news.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:24 PM   #68
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Bob, I don't recall the 'practicing atty' post you mention or who this poster was; how about adding a link to that post?

I stand by my statement about the rarity of lawsuits and prosecutions for towing 'too much trailer'. You might have heard of 1 or 2, or maybe 3? With a US population of 318,000,000 that's rare. But if you can produce a list of 100 such cases (still only a ratio of 1:3,180,000) I'll be impressed. Best for you to do the research and show us the list of lawsuits won or successful prosecutions, because if I don't come up with enough cases you will just say I didn't research well enough.

I probably wouldn't have chimed in, but I just get tired of seeing folks get bullied.

By the way, it's Lexis-Nexis, not 'nexus'.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:31 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
Which all goes to prove a few things.


1. Towing with a 1960's full size Ford Galaxy without a WDH may be a bad idea. But, compared to towing with most modern vehicles, it's still a bad idea.


2. What we learned in kindergarten may not be valid 60 years later.


3. Having a law degree does not make one a lawyer, not to compare, but in a recent case in LA it sure didn't...... read the news.

I'm betting there was no such thing as Kindergarten when you were 5!

Being a Lawyer is like being a Doctor, you don't get internal medicine advice from a psychologist, and you don't take a real estate lawyer to criminal court!

Are you saying that a WDH is needed to tow a T@B?
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:05 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
You need to look at YOUR instruction manual for YOUR Volvo.
On this, and other sites, people interpret what they read and then post.
So, "is not recommended" becomes "must not do".
People interpreted Toyota's "do not recommend" to mean "do not use" and then posted that as gospel. You need to go to your manual and then get the service manager to explain it.
Yup READ the owners manual. It will have something in it if Volvo also has a thing about people using WDH on their vehicles.

Subaru also has a tongue weight limit of only 200lbs on vehicles they put a tow spec of between 2700lbs and 3000lbs depending on the model. Making it tough to get a well balanced tow if towing anything with a total weight of over 2000lbs.

So why would Subaru (and in this case Volvo) put such a high total weight spec on it if you can't actually properly balance a trailer with it to tow in NA? Suspect it is to allow folks to tow boats etc a short distance to the launch ramp & not intended for pulling fully loaded TT around NA. Also the vehicles are sold in other parts of the world where tow speed limits are set at max 55 mph across the country and as such handling/sway issues are greatly reduced due to that speed limitation. In Europe the hitch set ups are also designed very differently than what is commonly found in NA. Both factors permit those living across the big pond from NA to get away with towing with less than 10% of the total weight on the tongue with limited ill effects of doing so.

The owners manual states on Subaru's that a WDH "is not recommended". I chatted directly to Subaru America and well as Canada and at the end of the day the best I could get out of them was the reason for the recommendation was they had concerns that due to their unique full time all wheel drive system they had concerns that under certain driving and weather conditions &/or poorly set up WDH that it could have a negative impact on the cars handling. Having said that I am well aware that there are a number of Subaru owners here who have had a WDH installed on their set ups and not aware of any ill effects so far. So it may simple be a fear on the part of Subaru that some people will not take the time to learn how to correct adjust the WDH or maybe not. Up to the owners to decide which it is and if they can live with the consequences of discovering they were might be wrong.
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