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Old 07-29-2015, 08:38 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by ORshepherd View Post
I found this last night when I googled Volvo and WDH. I don;t think there was a follow up wherein he discovered a CLass II won;t take a WDH...:

All of you replies and concerns are greatly appreciated and spurred me to ask the Volvo dealer; My reply is not meant to rebut or be sarcastic, so here is what I found out:
I hope this helps someone else who has the same questions.

Yes, it is a class 2 2" receiver hitch, so max weight is 3500 lbs

the 3300lb Gross/185lb weight max is based on a fully laden wagon. the GCVWR allows for an additional 1100 lbs of passenger and cargo and that only allows for another 185lbs on the rear axle on a full tank. by moving cargo to the trailer, and using a WDH, will allow me to go to the 3300/330 weight that you would expect safely.

Max towing speeds are based on general trailer manufacturer recommendations for single axle trailers, and state laws.---some states allow for only a 45mph max on single axle trailers regardless of brakes, towing vehilce or weight. A good guide line is the markings on a u-haul. If you think about it, when you have 12" tires being towed at 65mph, those tire are spinning twice as fast as the ones on your car. The limitation is a heat issue.

The information with long distances and reduced tow capacity was based on an 8 hour tow. I have a 4 year old and I can't do more than 4 hours at at time. Extended lunch stops will help abate the wear and tear issue and help the car cool down. Also, using reduced gears when climbing and descending hill I was told is key to keeping the Transmission cool.

The xc70 will also release the AWD if temps get too hot to help reduce heat buildup.
Servicing the tranny (at $400 a crack) yearly is a huge help even though the mfg says do it every 55k for towing and 85k for non towing.

Again, I am grateful for all the input, it made me think hard and go to the source for all my information. I hope this helps someone out there who is in my position.

Steve App
2011 Jayco 1206
2006 Volvo XC70
Me thinks that Mr. App is writing from a position of relative little real experience.

1. There are no states that have a 45 MPH speed limit on single axle trailers. Quoting what U-Haul writes on a trailer fender is hardly a reputable source. And, I've never seen a U-Haul trailer with 12" wheels, the example he uses.

2. "Extended lunch stops will help abate the wear and tear issue and help the car cool down." Applied on cars up until about 1940.

3. His math provides him with the excuse he needs to exceed the manufacturers towing limit. If Volvo gives the Okey-Dokey, it's good to go.
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:44 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
Me thinks that Mr. App is writing from a position of relative little real experience.

1. There are no states that have a 45 MPH speed limit on single axle trailers.

.
I suspect your correct. They may have done a quick glance through the abbreviated version of towing laws and saw it mentioned that some states do have towing laws that restrict the towing speed to 45mph but failed to read that it applies to items such as towing a motorhome, or a mobile/manufactured homes etc, not Travel trailers.

In regards to the 2" receiver - its hard to say if that was an ooops as well are not.

From Volvo's Parts Site here is the link to the Hitch they sell for the XC70 which is the OP's vehicle.

Its states it comes with a 2" ball mount & a 2" ball, which may have confused the party. Its stated to be a Class II US. No mention of the receiver size being 2" It is very possible to purchase a ball mount for a 2" ball for the smaller Class II receiver opening.

On the hitch they sell for their vehicle with higher tow rating than the OP's the Volvo hitch is stated to be a Class III and does say it has a 2" receiver.
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:00 AM   #101
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U-Haul used to pit stickers on everything they renters saying:
"Max Speed 45 MPH".
They even had reverse reading ones that would right read in your rear view mirror.
When asked, one U-Haul employee even claimed that the police could give you a ticket for towing over the speed limit set by the rental agency.... Right?


I once went to pick up a truck that I had rented for a Saturday telling them that I needed it for about 4 hours. The contract charged for a full day and I was told if I didn't have it back in 4 hours I would be charged extra because that's what I had reserved it for and they already had it rented for the afternoon (for another full days rental)


After several run-arounds when renting from U-Haul, I now limit my business with them to buying packing boxes, but they also cut the quality and raised the prices on those as well.
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:11 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Perhaps my math is poor but I can not see how transferring 300 or so lbs of 650lbs total off the rear of a tug to the front of the tug "reduces the tongue weight once it is attached". My math suggest the trailers tongue weight is still 650 lbs & the tug is still having to take all 650lbs of it on.
Now, of course I'm new at this. But the first thought that comes to mind with tongue weight is that the trailer is too heavy in front. Why not just add weight to the rear? (provided, of course you don't exceed the trailer's maximum axle weight)

LP
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:18 PM   #103
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NOOO...tell me I just didnt read this!!

Ok ok....just picking. Some may do that but I will warn you that some loaded Scamps are close to borderlines anyway on axles, tires etc. So I would NEVER add weight to the rear of ANY trailer to compensate for a heavy tongue weight-- unless it was an ABSOLUTE emergency and I had NO choice!

NOW, keep in mind when you're packing, IF there's "stuff" that HAS to go in the trailer, that would be the time to pack it towards the rear... but we pack VERY little in our Scamp when traveling. I pack the most that I can in my truck. On shorter (100 miles or so) I'm more lenient. But on LONG trips...500 miles or so...My Scamp probably doesnt have over 100 lbs added to it MAX!

That's just me .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA View Post
Now, of course I'm new at this. But the first thought that comes to mind with tongue weight is that the trailer is too heavy in front. Why not just add weight to the rear? (provided, of course you don't exceed the trailer's maximum axle weight)

LP
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:25 PM   #104
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rear trailer weight/tongue weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darral T. View Post
NOOO...tell me I just didnt read this!!

Ok ok....just picking. Some may do that but I will warn you that some loaded Scamps are close to borderlines anyway on axles, tires etc. So I would NEVER add weight to the rear of ANY trailer to compensate for a heavy tongue weight-- unless it was an ABSOLUTE emergency and I had NO choice!

NOW, keep in mind when you're packing, IF there's "stuff" that HAS to go in the trailer, that would be the time to pack it towards the rear... but we pack VERY little in our Scamp when traveling. I pack the most that I can in my truck. On shorter (100 miles or so) I'm more lenient. But on LONG trips...500 miles or so...My Scamp probably doesnt have over 100 lbs added to it MAX!

That's just me .
Well, of course I'm not advocating adding bricks in there or anything! I DO just mean the items we normally pack. If it seems heavy in the front, move some of your junk farther back. But again (ask I clearly stated up front) I'm NEW at this, and was asking for info!
LP
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:34 PM   #105
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And I said I was "just picking".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA View Post
Well, of course I'm not advocating adding bricks in there or anything! I DO just mean the items we normally pack. If it seems heavy in the front, move some of your junk farther back. But again (ask I clearly stated up front) I'm NEW at this, and was asking for info!
LP
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:47 PM   #106
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Hi Ellpea
There is a basic guideline to provide for good tracking and minimize/prevent sway that you have to have about 10+% of the trailers weight on the tongue. If it gets much below that the weight in the back will take over and you will have what is, technically, called "The tail wagging the Dog". If you look at the youtube video that was posted today in the thread titles "Not a Happy Camper..." you will see what the extreme condition can quickly become.


I mentioned just yesterday when I was very new at towing and tried to do just that with a utility trailer. Fortunately I was able to stop before an accident happened.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:18 PM   #107
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The whole tail wagging the dog can come into play if the weight is extreme at either end. Just much more likely with the trailer lite on the hitch.

Know where your wheel wells are in your trailer and as much as possible try to keep weight near the imaginary line between them with about 10% more in front of it.

Ideal tow would be all the weight near the center with just a bit forward of axles, all very low. Worst tow would be massive weight on front tongue and bunch of stuff piled on back bumper. With AC on roof and cast iron in the upper cabinets on one side. If you watch the not happy camper video you might notice the large amount of stuff on the back bumper.

Loading, hitches, weight limits and all that goes into it tend to be the most contentious issue on the forum. Followed by tires. Just looking at the sheer number of posts for this thread in such a short time!

Bottom line is folks make choices and are responsible for their own decisions. It boils down to an individual assessment and decision on risks and solutions not a committee. An informed assessment beats a wild guess generally. If you need CPR who do you want? Trained and certified by the red cross or read a brochure about it online once.

Less experience you have under your belt, less first hand knowledge the more reluctant you should be to push the limits. People both do crazy things and get lucky and do what seems crazy but they have the skills and knowledge to make it work and work well. All three the noob, the crazy and the opposite points of view are just about as certain as death and taxes to show up in any thread on this subject.

Can't argue politics on this forum so we have to make do with what we have
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:35 PM   #108
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I'm assuming that the tongue weight is measured before anything heavy is added anyway.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:39 PM   #109
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Manufacturers tongue weight is often a W.A.G. and, at the very best, is for a bare and empty trailer.
Your tongue weight is when it's loaded and ready to go, which is also why you need to know how much the entire rig weighs when it is loaded so you will know how much your tongue weight has to be. But, after you do it a few times it tends to work out OK.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:38 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
Know where your wheel wells are in your trailer and as much as possible try to keep weight near the imaginary line between them with about 10% more in front of it.

Ideal tow would be all the weight near the center with just a bit forward of axles, all very low.
Such important information and it is rarely mentioned.
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:26 PM   #111
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Dry hitch weights listed by trailer mfrs can be off by quite a bit. For one thing, they may not include LP tanks and/or battery. And they often don't include optional equipment. They are somewhat of a starting point, but it's really advisable to weigh that hitch (usually you can use a bathroom scale for FG eggs' hitch weight) before you plunk down the money to buy, and again when you are loaded for camping.

It would be very dangerous to have, say, a 2300 lb 16' Scamp loaded so as to obtain a 165 lb hitch weight. A 2300 lb Scamp should have 230 lbs or more on the hitch (some folks get away with 200 lbs, but some of those same people get some rear end wiggles). But a 13' Scamp weighing, say, 1600 lbs with a 165 lb hitch weight would be good.
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:15 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
Hi Ellpea
There is a basic guideline to provide for good tracking and minimize/prevent sway that you have to have about 10+% of the trailers weight on the tongue. If it gets much below that the weight in the back will take over and you will have what is, technically, called "The tail wagging the Dog". If you look at the youtube video that was posted today in the thread titles "Not a Happy Camper..." you will see what the extreme condition can quickly become.
Hi Bob,
Thanks, I do understand this part, and definitely wouldn't suggest (or try) too much weight in the back. My question just concerned excessive tongue weight, and all of the WDH stuff. If some TV's can't take a WDH, and they also have a limit on tongue weight, my question was "could the problem of excess tongue weight be resolved by shifting some of the trailer's contents farther back." Not to reduce the tongue weight to less than 10%, but possibly to reduce it to the acceptable 10%.

I did see the Not Happy Camper (very sad) and also the Youtube video demo using a toy truck and trailer on a treadmill-type surface... demonstrating weight distribution and sway. Very informative and helpful!

Best,
LP
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