The End of Trailer Trailing?

[Cam A]

I'm with Steve; Europe has found diesel to be the answer. Now that low sulphur diesel is available, modern diesel engines can provide both mileage and trailer-towing torque.

[Brian B-P]

...Now that low sulphur diesel is available...

I would suggest a little caution in terminology. Here in Canada, "low sulphur diesel" means a sulphur content of 15 parts per million or less; in the U.S. this is called "ultra low sulphur diesel", and just "low sulphur diesel" could have over thirty times the sulphur content allowed for the new engines. Unfortunately, while theoretically the "good stuff" should have been available everywhere for more than a year, it may not still not be what's coming out of the pump, and I have noticed that it is not at all clear on the pumps which standard is met by the available fuel... it's unleaded gas all over again.

[Dick & Joanne]

Going car shopping after my '92 Geo Metro died in 2002 was an interesting experience. At the time there wasn't even one car on the market that could get the 42-45MPG my Metro got, and damn few that got the 36 MPG of my wife's '97 Toyota Corolla. T



--Peter

Peter,
My 92 Metro is on its second engine. I'll drive it until the wheels fall off and then get another one.

Dick

[pjanits]

I must say I'm a diesel fan. I had an 87 suburban 6.2 litre and I loved it. Drove it for 12 years and I miss it dearly. Did I mention it was 4 wheel drive? Bring on the snow,mud,backroads etc.
22mpg hwy and I could pull anything I wanted to, with room for all the junk you could want.
Just change the oil and fuel filters and drive. No tuneups. It could idle all day and use hardly any fuel.

Alas the price of a new one is out of sight!

[Brian B-P]

I had an 87 suburban 6.2 litre...

That's an excellent example of the type of vehicle in question. Will it go away because it consumes too much fuel and drags down the average too far, or does it get an exemption from the rules as part of a larger and different class of vehicle? Some regulations change at a magic dividing line at something like 8400 lb GVWR, which means oversize truck-based wagons like a Chev 2500 Suburban or (now discontinued) Ford Excursion are allowed to be used as an alternative to cars; they are even allowed pollute more, because they are bigger, even if they are just used to take one person to work.

If that's what we need to buy to tow, then there's hardly any need for the trailer to be particularly lightweight...

[Frederick L. Simson]

Peter,
My 92 Metro is on its second engine. I'll drive it until the wheels fall off and then get another one.

Dick

My '92 Geo Metro is still on it's 1st engine, going strong! It's not the WHEELS falling off that I worry about.
(rattle, rattle)

[Paula Bindrich]

You need to read this article in Fast Company. This seventh grade dropout is retro fitting vehicles with stock parts and getting outstanding performance. Even Schwarzenegger sent one of his cars to him to "fix". He's changing Hummers around to get 60mpg and and doubling it's horsepower. If only the [American] automobile companies would do it this way in the beginning...

Paula

[Gina D.]

My first Brand NEW car was a 94 Metro. I miss the gas mileage...

but thats about all I miss about it. There has to be a compromise between Brickhouse and Tin Can.

My Element was close, for something of it's physical size and capabilities, I was impressed with the milage when not towing. (24-29)

I wish I could have kept it.

[GeorgeR]

You need to read this article in Fast Company. This seventh grade dropout is retro fitting vehicles with stock parts and getting outstanding performance. Even Schwarzenegger sent one of his cars to him to "fix". He's changing Hummers around to get 60mpg and and doubling it's horsepower. If only the [American] automobile companies would do it this way in the beginning...

Paula

In my world of thinking physics will always prevail. Acceleration and gas mileage are contrary; you can’t have both whatever an automotive journalist or a car salesman will tell you. Yes, recently I was testing my 7.3 L diesel and got almost 25 mpg at 45mph with a very, a very light foot. My heavy foot gave me 19 mpg. Chrysler/Mercedes’ Sprinter consistently gets over 20 mpg because of 3L Diesel displacement limitation. As long as we continue to adore acceleration OPEC will love us.

George.

[Paula Bindrich]

In my world of thinking physics will always prevail. Acceleration and gas mileage are contrary;

Rules are meant to be broken and things are not always as they seem. This guy has been thinking outside the box and doing things he's not supposed to be able to do for a long time. Someone tells him it can't be done and he does it.

I'll be the optimist.

Paula

[Brian B-P]

You need to read this article in Fast Company.

I glanced through the article in the print version of the magazine. I thought it was garbage then (although amusing), and the online version is the same. Given the non-technical and biased source (Fast Company), I'm not surprised

This seventh grade dropout is retro fitting vehicles with stock parts and getting outstanding performance. Even Schwarzenegger sent one of his cars to him to "fix".

No, he's not really getting much of anything. He makes a big deal of putting a diesel in Hummer H1 and getting better fuel economy than the "stock" gasoline engine... duh, all real HMMWV's (the military original) are diesel, and the gas engine is only for the Hollywood wannabes. The stock HMMWV diesel, by the way, is an outdated engine, since the HMMWV is a 1970's design; this guy is putting in a more current Duramax, just as GM would if they bothered to sell this obsolete model.

And Arnie neither knows anything about technology nor cares about resources or the environment. He does have a lot of money.

He's changing Hummers around to get 60mpg and and doubling it's horsepower. If only the [American] automobile companies would do it this way in the beginning...

No, he's not. Those are unsubstantiated claims. The wild and stupid claims for the turbine H3 confirm that this guy is a crackpot, although clearly he is capable - like thousands of backyard mechanics across the continent - of swapping engines in vehicles. Those who don't understand the technology should not be faulted for not realizing this, but this is why healthy skepticism about information sources is a good thing.

I'm very glad that competent businesses do not try the junk that this guy sells... but he apparently does a good job for entertainment programs such as Pimp My Ride - I saw the episode about his Duramax diesel Chevy and it was a cool ride.

[Byron Kinnaman]

I glanced through the article in the print version of the magazine. I thought it was garbage then (although amusing), and the online version is the same. Given the non-technical and biased source (Fast Company), I'm not surprised


No, he's not really getting much of anything. He makes a big deal of putting a diesel in Hummer H1 and getting better fuel economy than the "stock" gasoline engine... duh, all real HMMWV's (the military original) are diesel, and the gas engine is only for the Hollywood wannabes. The stock HMMWV diesel, by the way, is an outdated engine, since the HMMWV is a 1970's design; this guy is putting in a more current Duramax, just as GM would if they bothered to sell this obsolete model.

And Arnie neither knows anything about technology nor cares about resources or the environment. He does have a lot of money.


No, he's not. Those are unsubstantiated claims. The wild and stupid claims for the turbine H3 confirm that this guy is a crackpot. Those who don't understand the technology should not be faulted for not realizing this, but this is why healthy skepticism about information sources is a good thing.

I'm very glad that competent businesses do not try the junk that this guy sells... but he apparently does a good job for entertainment programs such as Pimp My Ride - I saw the episode about his Duramax diesel Chevy and it was a cool ride.

What I saw that interested me was the turbine/electric version. Might just work.

[Brian B-P]

What I saw that interested me was the turbine/electric version. Might just work.

A turbine/electric hybrid is a viable design... but it won't do what he claims, because the well-known turbine will not generate power efficiently enough to move the H3 with the claimed economy, even if the supercapacitors (themselves an interesting and promising technology for hybrids) are perfect. And what about 600 hp worth of electric motors? Serious auto manufacturers have been trying turbines for decades, and they just are not sufficiently efficient in small sizes.

The burst-mode turbine operation is also a very poor match for our towing application, which calls for sustained significant power for hill-climbing (at least for those of us who venture into mountainous areas).

[peterh]

. . . recently I was testing my 7.3 L diesel and got almost 25 mpg at 45mph with a very, a very light foot . . .

I heard an interesting article on NPR last Friday. I was stuck in traffic on I-5 heading to Vancouver, WA from Portland, OR when an article came on talking about reducing traffic jams and congestion. The engineer being interviewed was suggesting that our existing freeways can handle today's higher traffic volumes by adjusting the speed limit downward to 45 mph which, after taking in to account following distances, vehicle lengths, the dynamics of vehicles merging and changing lanes, is the point at which driving speed and the carrying capacity of our freeways meet.

The article suggested that, if we changed speed limits on urban freeways where congestion is a problem to 45mph, traffic would move more smoothly in the hours leading up to and following peak use hours and provide more uncongested freeway lanes for peak use drivers. And, since people's effective speed limit when stuck in traffic is five miles an hour or so, a 45mph limit would actually increase (not decrease) the freeway's effective speed limit.

I think this is a cool idea. Not only will people save time and frustration, they'll save gas that would have been burned while sitting idle in traffic and reduce air pollution, we'd also be reducing the number of traffic accidents and costs (in lives and insurance rates). And setting the speed limit to 45mph, which happens to be pretty close to the average speed at which our vehicles get their optimum fuel efficiency, would mean that our vehicles get their best gas mileage while driving the freeways that see the highest number of vehicle trips.

Sounds like a pretty cool way to reduce traffic congestion and make driving more pleasant, reduce fossil fuel consumption, and improve air quality without spending a lot of money.

--Peter

[Steve L.]

The turbine/burst/recharge mode caught my eye as well although I admit my thoughts turned to the size of the wiring required to move vast quantities of amphours in a hurry back into a battery or even a "super" capacitor. A problem solved, no doubt, by superconducting wires with zero resistance. At least they wouldn't have to be very long wires.

I must admit the story has the cues that appeal: The little guy going up against the evil conglomerates.

[Steve L.]

I heard an interesting article on NPR last Friday. ...our existing freeways can handle today's higher traffic volumes by adjusting the speed limit downward to 45 mph..

Personally, I don't believe this NPR guest for a moment. Is there credible evidence that when the national speed limit was 55mph there was less traffic congestion than now?

I'll go visit NPR later to see if they've archived the interview. I'm curious as to the specifics.

[Patrick M.]

I don't know why the car makers haven't brought those nice diesels they're selling in Europe over here. Instead, and apologies to all who have one, we have the large, loud pickups roaring up and down the campground, or idling for 15 minutes at 6AM next to me while they get ready to leave. Okay, rant over.

I bought an Isuzu Trooper II turbo diesel in 1985 and other than having to locate the only 3 stations that sold diesel in Scottsdale, we were pretty happy with it. Well, other than the time we went to Brice and it wouldn't start in the morning and I found out when I got home that three of the four glow plugs were burned out. Oh, and the time when my local station gave me a few gallons of water with the diesel. And lest I forget, when a main bearing failed and a new crankshaft cost $1,000 which was cheap next to the repair labor.


As for Goodwin, I'd love to see an independent audit of his claims, and I hope I'm dead before I have to go stand in line at McDonald's to get my ration of cooking oil to refine to bio-diesel.

[Brian B-P]

The turbine/burst/recharge mode caught my eye as well although I admit my thoughts turned to the size of the wiring required to move vast quantities of amphours in a hurry back into a battery or even a "super" capacitor. A problem solved, no doubt, by superconducting wires with zero resistance.

The very large capacitor ("supercapacitor", "ultracapacitor", etc) is used in some heavy-duty hybrid applications for this reason: the power density (rate of energy transferred in or out of a given size of storage device) is high compared to batteries, even if the energy density is low. These capacitors are now commercial products, made by companies such as Maxwell and used by manufacturers such as ISE Corporation. People like Johnathan Goodwin are not doing what the evil conglomerates won't do, he's just making amateur copies of their designs and applying them in ways which are not technically or economically viable... and milking it for publicity.

I can see this bit of technology as being applicable to our tugs: a vehicle with enough engine for sustained loaded hill-climbing would not benefit much from hybrid technology at continuous speed on the highway, but would benefit the non-towing majority of the time with improved urban economy - that might help more powerful vehicles pass the average gas mileage requirement. The capacitors might be a good energy storage method because they are well-suited to high-power boosts to help us make that occasional passing maneuver or merge onto a highway, complete with trailer.

Superconducting wires between components, unlike the capacitors, are not "ready for prime time". Too bad.

[Brian B-P]

I don't know why the car makers haven't brought those nice diesels they're selling in Europe over here.

I suppose this was a rhetorical question, but....

• North American fuel has just caught up to the low sulphur content standard required for the best Euro diesels.
• Advanced turbodiesels are more expensive to build, heavier, and more complex, than gasoline engines of the same power output; since fuel economy is not highly valued by consumers, there is no justification for these engines. That may shift with the latest average fuel economy requirement.
• In some cases, they have brought those engines here. A current example is the Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD; this is the same engine in the Sprinter mentioned by GeorgeR, although at a different rated power output. I'm sure those who keep up with this subject can supply other examples.

[steven jones]

i've recently swapped a low-mileage, high-compression JDM Paseo engine (5e-fhe) into my Toyota Tercel, with the intention of turbo-charging it for rally-racing purposes... i expect i'll be able to tune it for 180whp, & 36+mpg...
but i'm also going to buy another JDM turbo-diesel (1N-T) that i can swap in when this engine wears out... only about 67hp @ 4500, but almost 140ft/lbs torque @ 2500, & it's rated at 70+mpg...! this was an engine that Toyota was putting in Tercel/Corolla chassis cars for overseas market... in USA/Canada, we were only given gas engines that got about half the mpg's i dunno why they didn't import them here back in the 90's... Americans didn't want to buy diesel cars...
i'd like to setup a shop to convert small Toyotas to diesel & biodiesel... my 2000lb Tercel (or a 2600lb Corolla) can tow a 1600lb 13' trailer when equipped right...
--- steven

i edited/reposted for more accurate content...