Trailer Owners Lack of Integrity?

[mexbob5150]

Its not about asking questions ! Its about asking the right questions ! !

[jimcapon]

Jon, I think you're doing a Pinto-Porsche comp, when you say my son's system is an eBay sale. On eBay, you don't get to touch or taste it and you eat it if the sale item is bogus. A 3 day inspection gives the egg hunter an opportunity to bring their "expert" to look over the rig.
And who says that the egg has to sell at my price. Maybe it's not worth the $3500 I have into it. It could be that the market says my Burro should be $1500. When I put the ad on Craigslist I expected 2 or 3 replies not the 27 I have to date.

[jimcapon]

Bob, your definition of a "Bait and Switch" is incorrect. I have bid over the asking price on the last 6 homes I have purchased including my own home or investment homes. An ad price is an invitation not a contract. And 2 of those investment homes were in California.

[Borrego Dave]

As for Ebay, here's a little tale. With big ticket items you can hire a third party to do an inspection for you at the seller location. Being most listings are 7 to 10 days long you do have plenty of time for it.
Lets just say I learned about these inspection folks the hard way, to late . May be harder to find someone who knows about molded rigs but it is an avenue to look down.

[Bob Miller]

Me thinks that there is some confustication in the discussion....


1. You can touch, taste and inspect items on eBay. Just contact the seller and make arrangements for a tasting session for before the auction closes. If a seller won't allow an inspection that's a red flag to not bid.


2. The issue about selling at the advertised price essentially sez that raising the advertised price is not legal/ethical, not that you can't sell for less than the advertised price. Once it's "advertised", unless otherwise stated, i.e "Accepting offers over $12,000", there is a certain contractual agreement made between the seller and all possible buyers to sell for that price if any and all reasonable requirements are also met.


As an example, when we purchased the Lil Bigfoot we made a cash deposit and got a receipt showing the balance due as well as the terms of payment (cash within 48 hours etc.) When we returned to pick up the trailer the seller had amassed a number of buyers willing to pay over the asking price and wanted the seller to dump our deposit and just give us the money back. As the seller already knew this was illegal in CA, so he offered us a premium to release our deposit, but knew better than trying to sell it out from under us.


Different kinds of sale situations will require different techniques to assure a sale, but changing horses mid-stream (i.e raising price above advertised price, changing the terms of sale i.e making a straight sale offer into an auction etc.) is a no-no.


3. The 3 day inspection and taking bids is OK, but it should be clear up front that the sale is basically an auction, not an outright sale.

[Bill Nolen]

Before I retired I worked for the Federal Government, awarding Governments Contracts.

One day when I was trying to negotiate downward the price for overhauling jet engines with the owner of large company in Dallas, Texas....the owner said to me "Bill, why is it that you are always trying to get me to lower the price, but I'm never allowed to rise it? Are we truely negotiating here?"!

He was right...negotiating should be a two-way street.

Many years earlier in California, when I was in the USMC, and in my teens, I asked a man how much he wanted for a auto part, that I needed for a "hot rod" I owned.

(The part had not been advertised for sale) He told me a certain price....say $25.00. I offered him much less, to which he replied " Nope,I won't sell it for less than $30.00!

When I questioned him about the increase....his answer was the price was going to go higher each time I tried to beat him down on the price.

i have used this tactic only once since that day, and the look on the would-be buyer's face was something to see! I only did it because the guy was giving me a hard time, and bad-mouthing every inch of a small sailboat I had for sell.

Bill

[jimcapon]

You're doing a Pinto-Porsche comparison. You had a contract with the seller of the Bigfoot. You had a meeting of the minds and the sale had all 4 corners covered. Prior to that "meeting of the minds" it was plain old capitalism. The dude had your $ & you had a paper=contract.
An eBay sale & an inspection prior to sale are not one and the same.
And, until a deal is done, It ain't a deal.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by jimcapon

Bob, your definition of a "Bait and Switch" is incorrect. I have bid over the asking price on the last 6 homes I have purchased including my own home or investment homes. An ad price is an invitation not a contract. And 2 of those investment homes were in California.

Real Estate is an entirely different animal and sale conditions and procedures are very carefully governed by law. It involves a third party (Realtors, etc) and immediate sales are not usually a possibility. Add to that, the statement "Accepting Offers" is more common than not in 10 ads I just randomly reviewed. I wouldn't ever confuse R.E sales with consumer sales, it's two different worlds.

In the purest sense, "Bait and Switch" is when you are enticed to buy a product with a low price and when you arrive to purchase it, the product isn't available and an upsell is attempted.

If a seller posts a price at which an item is available and then elects to raise the price, at least in CA, it can lead to problems. But, as we were discussing seller ethics or a lack there of, this is a picture perfect example of those with a lack thereof.....

[jimcapon]

Baloney...a B&S is when you advertise a 1959 356 Porsche for $5000 and when you get to the seller has a 1974 Pinto and starts telling you that they're the same pointing out that both cars have 13inch wheels, seats 4,
very close(size) engines, two doors etc etc
As far as Real Estate, to me they're one and the same as any other contract situation. There is no textbook for RE contracts and another for all other sales.
And over half of my income is coming from Calf RE deals and I did business there for over 20 years.

[Bill Nolen]

Can we call a time out here?

Bill

[MyronL]

I've bought two used, old FB trailers in my time and in both cases there was floor rot. In the first one it was very obvious, after I got it home and began the rebuild, but never was mentioned in the description. The pictures did no more than make you very suspicious.

In the second one I bought, rot was quite hidden by a dazzling, shiny new parquet floor. These were eBay auctions -both were a long drive from my house. I paid more than I should have in both cases ---but, when you want the trailer you want the trailer. I also pretty much knew for each one what I was getting into and the price was what I was willing to pay.

When I sold these two they were in far far better condition yet I went to great pains to be as forthcoming and honest about them as I could, pointing to many flaws, non-working parts, but of course I also made sure everything was looking great. I emphasized a repeated warning not to see the trailer in the same light you would something right out the factory door.

Like I said, when you want the trailer you want the trailer. Both these buyers were novices with stars in their eyes. Both, a few weeks down the road, called me and complained about things they now did not like.

Whatayagonnado?

[floyd]

Originally Posted by jimcapon

Baloney...a B&S is when you advertise a 1959 356 Porsche for $5000 and when you get to the seller has a 1974 Pinto and starts telling you that they're the same pointing out that both cars have 13inch wheels, seats 4,
very close(size) engines, two doors etc etc
As far as Real Estate, to me they're one and the same as any other contract situation. There is no textbook for RE contracts and another for all other sales.
And over half of my income is coming from Calf RE deals and I did business there for over 20 years.

AHHH!! but just imagine how relieved you would be if they had advertized a 914 Porsche and you found it was a Pinto!

[Anne MP]

Hello and thanks.
As some of you may have seen in the Classifieds and on the daily FGRV post, I recently purchased a trailer in excellent condition, but for which I did not have all the information. It turned out that the trailer is too heavy for my comfort in pulling it with a 2014 Subaru Outback. The PO mistakenly reported the weight, and I had not done all the research and there was no spec sheet in the trailer on inspection.

Otherwise kind people who hold to the principle of "buyer beware", can justify omitting pertinent information. Is that lacking integrity? Not so kind people actively seek advantage with complete lack of integrity. Naive people choose to believe rather than get all the facts to make a proper decision that will impact them alone.

Life wake us up to the extent we choose to take the challenge. There are great insights to be had in listening to other people's experiences. I hope my experience helps other FGRV members. And I want to thank the members who have reached out to give me information. Great information. Just wish I had used the Forums where the nuts and bolts of owning/buying/selling fiberglass trailers is freely passed along.

Still, camping is where its at! So...
Happy Camping and safe travels,
Anne

[Borrego Dave]

Good post Anne. We see all the time newbies looking for a trailer going by the builders specs and we tell them to check the forums "real worlds" weight list. On the other hand, as far as sellers knowing the real weight of their rigs. They use the builders numbers because they never weighed it and it worked well with their tug and have no reason to do it. Was it a fib? No, a moot point to them and a truth to be told. Being molded units are harder to find, first time buyers need to do more homework and not be afraid of walking away and keep looking for the right one. I'm going to chalk this thread up to the 2% rule....98% are on the up and up.

[Bob Miller]

[QUOTE=jimcapon;534297]Baloney...a B&S is when you advertise a 1959 356 Porsche for $5000 and when you get to the seller has a 1974 Pinto and starts telling you that they're the same pointing out that both cars have 13inch wheels, seats 4,
very close(size) engines, two doors etc etc


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch

[Bob Miller]

Unfortunately we see a lot of newbie 1st posts that start out with
"Hi, I recently bought a "????" fiberglass trailer and just found this group..."
and the, sometimes, tale of woe begins.


I had a pro-training sales director who often told his dealers, "If you think that the cost of knowledge is high, consider the cost of ignorance."

[Bill Nolen]

I had a new experience a few months ago.

I had placed a "want -to-buy" ad on craigslist stating that I wanted to buy a Compact Junior. One day I received a call from a man saying that he had a Compact ll that he wanted to sell for $2,500.

He had seen my ad and knowing where he could buy a Compact ll, he bought it cheap (less than $1,000 I believe) thinking he could flip it, and make some money.

Taking the forums "buyers check list" I went to look at the trailer. During my inspection I could see many things that was questionable, and might or would need replacement, plus the door had a large gap at the top when closed.

It was impossible to check any of the electrical or water systems because the seller had parked the trailer far from any power or water. No battery was installed.

When i would point out a defect...the seller would agree...yes, it would need new tires. Yes, the water pump might not work...yes, the holding tank might have a crack in it...yes, the front window was cracked and needed replacement....yes, the top cloth needed replacement, and yes the LP tank wasn't up to code! Etc, etc, etc!

He readily admitted that he had seen my craigslist ad, and had bought the trailer to resale. He didn't know a single thing about the condition of the trailer, and could care less. He never lied about the trailer...it was "here it is...if you want it...give me $2,500!"

I decided that too many unknown existed for my liking, and after two weeks of talking, I told him I wasn't a buyer at $2,400, and $1,800 was the most i'd pay.. During this time he was in progress of getting a new title.

In a day or so, he placed an ad on this forum, and sold the trailer the very next day!

I may have passed on a great buy....or on a turkey! However, only the buyer's of that trailer knows for sure!

I'd like to again thank Bob Miller for being very nice, and answering the dozens of questions I asked him during that period, as i tried to make up my mind whether or not to buy the trailer!

Bill

[Uplander]

The marketplace is short on supply (FG Trailers) and long on the list of buyers looking....ergo....you get a lot of interested potential buyers calling....how many show up may be another matter.

In the past I have posted ads on Craigslist with a lot of quality pictures and completed the sale in hours of posting. If you have real buyers responding they will be at your door in a New York minute! My best record was about 20 minutes for the call to come in....buyer at my door in an hour with cash in hand....looked over the item ( a boat) and was gone in about 30 minutes with the item in tow!

If your ad finds a real buyer the item is gone that fast....how many buyers have been to look at your trailer since you first listed it for sale?....how many cash offers ??? Something is not right here!

[John Linck]

Bad negotiating!

Two years ago we sold a Rialta motorhome to a young couple. The sale began with our craigslist ad. The prospective buyers made an appointment to come see and inspect. We spent over an hour going over all the systems with me pointing out all the real and possible problems. They ended up offering the $23,000 asking price. But, they were young and so nice. So I went into hardball negotiating mode and beat the price down to $22,500. They wrote a check and agreed to pick up the Rialta a week later. (Probably the only way I would take a check and not cash) I quickly went to their bank and converted the check into a cashiers check which I deposited. A few days later they drove away in their new RV. Despite my embarrassingly lousy negotiating technique it was a delightful experience.

John

[jimcapon]

Now that I've seen the reaction I had trying to sell my Burro when it's been stuck in a garage for the last 3 years, I agree with your method of selling an egg. Lots of people called but for the life of me, I could not recall how far I got on some of the interior items. For example I pulled off most of the propane items(heater, tanks, lines)as I wanted to replace them with butane or electric or whatever but I wasn't sure if I gave them to the shop who did work on the trailer. I also misjudged the number of folks who wanted to come over to look at the rig with cash in hand when I was 2 weeks away from home. I stand corrected & will have lots of pictures next time and the time to show it.
This morning I notified all the interested parties that I was cancelling the sale until I have more time to deal with the egg hunters who were willing to travel for hours to see my trailer.