Trailer Owners Lack of Integrity?

[Bill Nolen]

Is it just me, or is there a increasing lack of integrity being displayed by private travel trailer owners when they are selling their trailers? And, this includes owners of fiberglass trailers!

Lately, I have noticed a number of new owners of used fiberglass trailers, reporting on this forum/web site, that upon arriving home, they discovered serious hidden defects (like rotting floors) that the owner failed to tell them about, lied to them, or had hidden by paint, etc.

Having spent some time in commission sales, I can understand that a person selling on a commission, and needed to make a sale to pay their rent, might not feel the need to tell all the bad things about a trailer. Maybe in the back of their minds they might be thanking that their company's warranty will take care of any problems. Or maybe they are just dishonest!

However, a private seller not being honest to a buyer is something that I find appalling!. Particularity if the buyer is someone buying a travel trailer for the first time!

Nothing is worse I believe, than a person/couple dreaming of the joy that a travel trailer will bring to their life's...and then discover that they have purchased a trailer, from a that very nice honest looking man, that is a piece of junk thatwill require extensive repairs!

Sigh!!!!

Bill

[Glenn Baglo]

Goldman Sachs.

[Jon in AZ]

Unscrupulous sellers and outright scammers are attracted to hot markets in which buyers outnumber sellers. They trade on the fact that a certain percentage of desperate buyers will take risks they would not in a more balanced market.

Your best weapons are a good Buyer's Checklist and a second pair of eyes belonging to someone not emotionally invested in the purchase.

[floyd]

Having bought hundreds of vehicles, including many fiberglass trailers, I have found the vast majority of sellers to be honest.
Many times though, they know less about their vehicle than you might think they should.
I think this is often true of the buyer as well. When something is sold "as is and shown" and the seller has disclosed all he knows about it, then it is incumbent upon the buyer to inspect and recognize any unacceptable flaws before closing the deal.
While flaws can be used to negotiate price, the buyer must then be willing to accept the responsibility for any repairs after purchase.

I once sold an Olds Cutlas with a rusted out frame behind the rear wheels. The car looked good otherwise.
The buyer thought the price was good and was willing to accept my explanation. When I insisted that he get down and look at the damage, he said that it wasn't necessary.
My reply was "It is if you want to buy the car!"

Disclosure is the best policy, but Caveat Emptor is still an apropos admonition.

[padlin00]

So it's okay for a salesman to withhold information but not a private seller?, think I'd call both unscrupulous. Unfortunately there is a reason for the "buyer beware" warning when buying anything used.

Over on one of the Airstream forums you can ask for an experienced current vintage owner to check out a used trailer for you, think there is a list somewhere. As with FG trailers, folks keep them on the road forever. Stuff happen to 20 or 30 year old trailers, it should almost be expected unless you are paying top $.

[Cathy P.]

Sadly, this is risk whenever you are purchasing anything used and the new stuff tends to lack decent quality control. So, my money is still in the bank.

[Jim Bennett]

There is as much, or even more. onus on the buyer to ensure that they have inspected the product they are buying, and understand any problems it may have. As well, I fully believe in the seller being honest and upfront about issues with the product. It is a two way street. No way would I spend my money without being fully aware of the condition of the item, be it a trailer or a lawnmower.

As Floyd pointed out, most of the people he has had dealings with were straight shooters, and my experience is the same. I have thoroughly inspected stuff and found flaws, in addition to what was revealed, and either made the choice not to buy, or offer what I felt was fair. This happened with the '76 Trillium 1300 I bought, where the owner revealed what he thought were the problems, and upon inspection with my brother and myself, found a few other things wrong. I offered him two thirds of what he was asking, and made the deal.

[frank_a]

When we bought our Parkliner (from an attorney), it was nearly new and looked just fine to us novices. It was only much later that we pieced together the fact that it had been in a minor accident we were never told about. The first clue was the microwave fell off the shelf on the short trip home. When I went to put new stainless steel chains on the front, I noticed bolts holding the jack were bent. On inspection of the spare tire, the wheel had a sizable dent in it. Then when I went to check the hub bearings, the hubs were different (one with longer studs than the other), and the grease was different side to side. Finally, the wastewater tank was cracked.

We have dealt with all these issues and are okay now, but there is no question in my mind the the original poster here is right on the money. The attorney we bought the trailer from was very friendly, but in retrospect, displayed a glaring lack of integrity.

The "problem" with good used eggs is they are in such demand, you have to move quick to get one as soon as it's advertised or it's just gone. Again, in retrospect, I wish we had just held off and bought new. Ya learn something new every darn day I guess.

Let the buyer beware.

Frank

[Uplander]

A few tips when buying from a private seller....Upon arrival at the seller's residence take note of his home, the condition of his property etc. if you see a well maintained home and property that is an indication of how he maintains his "stuff". His travel trailer should reflect that level of care.
If the property is a dump with tall grass and evidence of poor maintenance don't expect the RV to be any different!

Ask a lot of questions...look into his eyes when he answers your questions. Move in close when questioning the seller (this is an interrogation technique used by investigators) get inside his comfort zone and you will detect his character and perhaps his honesty.

If the seller is willing to give you a detailed tour of his RV chances are you will detect his pride of ownership and maintenance.
Ask when was the last time he had the bearings re packed in the wheels.....ask how old the tires are (do not rely on the tread ware as an indication of age.
After he tells you how old the tires are check the date codes on the tires to confirm his honesty ot lack thereof. "trust but verify"....Ronald Regan had it right!
When buying from a dealer it is easy to tell if the salesman is being less than truthful....his lips will be moving when he speaks.....
If you are not a long time RV owner bring along someone who knows the product to help you inspect it.
Remember the old boatyard saying...."a little putty and a little paint makes 'um look like what they ain't ".

BUYER BEWARE.....used cars, used RVs, used boats...same-same.

[Dextersp1]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

Having spent some time in commission sales, I can understand that a person selling on a commission, and needed to make a sale to pay their rent, might not feel the need to tell all the bad things about a trailer. Maybe in the back of their minds they might be thanking that their company's warranty will take care of any problems. Or maybe they are just dishonest!

I'm sure the sellers you are describing have made similar justifications e.g. caveat emptor

[Darral T.]

Cathy, I looked at used before purchasing my new Scamp. The one I ALMOST bought was just 1 yr old. I did as some others suggested...asked LOTS of questions...about everything working, manuals, etc. He finally said, "This is too much...". I ordered new....

Just remember, at LEAST "new" comes with at LEAST a 1 yr warranty- some warranties may be longer on some appliances. So if they (Scamp, Casita, etc) do shoddy work that's obvious and causes you problems, it's their baby regardless. But of course, it's still an aggravation either way.

Originally Posted by Cathy P.

Sadly, this is risk whenever you are purchasing anything used and the new stuff tends to lack decent quality control. So, my money is still in the bank.

[SallyBEE]

This is what the Airstream group reminds newbies to beware of. You can add a lot of spit and polish to anything to cover a variety of structural issues and unfortunately when we first started RV hunting we saw things from both private sellers and commercial that well, did not restore my faith.

We had narrowed our search to fiberglass, vintage Airstream, and possibly something like a Hi-lo.

Examples:
1. There was the Airstream 87 Excella (top of the line in its day) that had been a hunting cabin. Now, if you see this in an ad, please run because it could mean a LOT of work. Now, we had agreed on work being okay but when we talked on the phone, nobody said that you could see the outside through several places in the floor or that the frame was separating from the body. Really, the private seller said,"that's what that is a sign of?"

2. The Hi-Lo from the commercial dealer who said "no leaks in the past or present" but with the whole ceiling bubbled-bubbles on the outside if you knew where to look and brown lines running down the wall that they clearly tried to wash off had the salesman looking at me strangely and asking where I got my RV experience because he supposedly didnt see this when they took it in as a trade in. Are you kidding me?

3. Frankly, the most honest persons we dealt with came from this site where we did end up buying our 19 foot Scamp.

[Flyboyscamp]

Just comes down to being fully aware of your seller, ask many many questions, and if possible, a pre buy inspection at a RV center. We talked many times to our seller in South Carolina,mane developed a sense of trust. Once we met, he showed us everything on our Scamp that in fact worked! He was caring, and honest. The interior is like new, and everything worked out fine.

[rbryan]

There have always been unscrupulous sellers in every market. I think what you may be seeing is that there's an increase in dishonesty and a decrease in integrity in general - not just with buying/selling, but in society as a whole. Owning a fiberglass trailer doesn't automatically make you an honest fellow. Some bad folks have them too. As others have said, (especially in the society we live in today) caveat emptor.

[dbir]

Originally Posted by Uplander

A few tips when buying from a private seller....Upon arrival at the seller's residence take note of his home, the condition of his property etc. if you see a well maintained home and property that is an indication of how he maintains his "stuff". His travel trailer should reflect that level of care.
If the property is a dump with tall grass and evidence of poor maintenance don't expect the RV to be any different!

I completely agree with this, i buy and sell a lot of toys/vehicles, its pretty easy to tell which ones were quick flips, wrecked repairs, and which ones are legitimately well enjoyed and just time to move on. Ask lots of questions, the good ones will talk and talk about their experiences, answering questions, and sharing a passion for that trailer/vehicle.

I keep a folder and notepad on every vehicle i own - receipts and documentation for work done - it helps me so if i have to go back and find a part number or year i've done something i know. Each time i tow my trailer i mark it down - i can then track when i re-torqued the lugs, or greased the bearings - i go as far as tracking tire pressure over time - it helps me spot problems before they become big.

I do these things for my own piece of mind - but when it comes time to sell something it really helps remove the unknown, it should also be noted that when i sell something i do significant research into the market value, and put a firm price on it - with the supporting documentation i don't need to hagel on the value.

When my trillium goes up for sale it will include all of the pictures from when i took possession, the roof repair i completed, the receipts for the interior overhaul, notes including the date stamps on my replacement tires, mileage traveled, etc.

As a seller i want to sleep at night as well.

[Darwin Maring]

Beware of Sales people wearing PLAID.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

Is it just me, or is there a increasing lack of integrity being displayed by private travel trailer owners when they are selling their trailers? And, this includes owners of fiberglass trailers!

Lately, I have noticed a number of new owners of used fiberglass trailers, reporting on this forum/web site, that upon arriving home, they discovered serious hidden defects (like rotting floors) that the owner failed to tell them about, lied to them, or had hidden by paint, etc.

Having spent some time in commission sales, I can understand that a person selling on a commission, and needed to make a sale to pay their rent, might not feel the need to tell all the bad things about a trailer. Maybe in the back of their minds they might be thanking that their company's warranty will take care of any problems. Or maybe they are just dishonest!

However, a private seller not being honest to a buyer is something that I find appalling!. Particularity if the buyer is someone buying a travel trailer for the first time!

Nothing is worse I believe, than a person/couple dreaming of the joy that a travel trailer will bring to their life's...and then discover that they have purchased a trailer, from a that very nice honest looking man, that is a piece of junk thatwill require extensive repairs!

Sigh!!!!

Bill

Certainly there are sellers who are not forth right. I don't believe that its a growing situation among private sellers.

Buyer beware has been a rule of thumb since there has been buyers and sellers. Every buyer has the responsibility to be knowledgeable or to 'employ' a knowledgeable person.

Today with the immense data base it is possible to be knowledgeable better than ever. That said we do keep electing the same politicians....just kidding.

[redbarron55]

To some extent I think some of the owners don't know much about taking care of their egg and what it's condition really is.
Many think that the musty smell is just that and putting down some linoleum takes care of the floor problems, etc.
Also many don't know that the frames are cracked and rusty as they are, or they see some metal welded in and think that is OK.
Having bought a 16' Scamp that I knew needed some work I was relatively amazed by what I found when I started taking the thing apart to fix what I knew about!
The frame cracks on the left side because the right side where the door is located is flexing. Repairing the cracks on the left wit some nice patches don't help the cracks in the top of the pass under tubes that you can't see unless you remove the floor over it!
from the factory this junction is totally inadequate for the long term loads and the rifht side will probably crack again.
The Pop rivets are a continual source of problems along with in maintained windows and other vents and openings of one kind or another.
The OSB board is prone to swelling and rotting if it gets wet and there are many opportunities for this as well in the older trailers.
By the way I said Scamp, but these things apply pretty equally to the entire range of fiberglass trailers with the "basement" floor and the right frame cut down for easier access.
All of the same ills are waiting in the even more leak prone stickbuilt trailers as well, of course.
At least the fiberglass trailers can be worth rebuilding, but many here are involved in bigger projects than we had hoped for initially. I know I am and I thought I looked pretty closely.
Must smell, mildew and mold, welding (probably poor quality), old axles, leaking anythings really are signs that the trailer will need extensive work.
If a floor repair is necessary that means that everything comes out and has to be reinstalled and probably fixed too.
When I am done with my project the old Scamp will have a portion of the original frame, the fiberglass shell, aluminum trim strip, door and windows left original. Everything else will be new to that trailer, new or rebuilt.
Probably better than direct from Scamp and built to meet (what I think are) my needs and desires.
It will be a little heavier, longer, and have new paint as well.
So my hope is I have the equivalent or better as a new Scamp and it will be paid as we go rebuilding. No corners cut and the best way I can figure to get the job done.
Then the question is how much is a 1986 17' (now) Scamp super deluxe with front bath, twin beds, full oak cabinets, mini split 9000 BTU A/C, tankless Water heater, New Flexiride axle, bulldog hitch, LED lights throughout and 14" tires worth?
I guess you have to camp the investment out!

[Steve L.]

I agree with the perspective that the general population of weasels is appropriately represented in the fiberglass travel trailer market. I also know that it seems like everyone’s a victim these days. No personal responsibility for making a bad purchasing decision. Personally, what I hope for are honest answers to direct questions. I don’t expect them to offer up every issue they can think of that might effect every possible customer. For example, I smoke cigars in my trailer. (I consider it children repellant.) If that matters to the customer they better ask about it.

[John Linck]

Originally Posted by Uplander

A few tips when buying from a private seller....Upon arrival at the seller's residence take note of his home, the condition of his property etc. if you see a well maintained home and property that is an indication of how he maintains his "stuff". His travel trailer should reflect that level of care.
If the property is a dump with tall grass and evidence of poor maintenance don't expect the RV to be any different!

My nephew is a frugal fellow who has accumulated a couple of rental houses. When meeting a new prospective tenant he insists on meeting them at their car or walking them to their car after showing his rental. He says you can tell a lot about how a person is likely to treat a rental house by how he cares for his car. Owners of messy, cluttered cars don't get leases.