Trailer Weights in the Real World - Page 15 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 12-07-2012, 08:28 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
That's a lovely philosophical statement, and sometime I'd really enjoy getting together with you and my many sophist friends over a bottle of Chianti and a couple of joints to discuss it at length...
Things have changed recently in Washington.

I think it is important to set a standard, which Frederick has done, and keep it consistant. The results may not be exact, but what is? I would say that keeping the trailer level, plus or minus less then a degree, should be accurate enough.

Frederick, what do you guess the margin of error is?
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:29 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post


How am I to reconcile that philosophy with the sterner scientific one expressed below?



Francesca
I suggest you take your trailer to a local truck stop and weigh it on a certified scale. I don't remember if state weigh stations are open to public when not in use by the state in Washington, they are in Oregon and free when available.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:45 PM   #199
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Accuracy is how close you can get to the bullseye. Often a matter of chance. Precision is shooting all your arrows to the same location however far from the mark. Always a measure of, yep, David nailed it, consistent (not perfect) technique.

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Old 12-07-2012, 11:33 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
You're making me crazy, Frederick.
And you've returned the favor. I think we're even.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:49 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
Frederick, what do you guess the margin of error is?
Since my wheel-weighers display weight in 20 pound increments, "Tolerance" is +/- 20 pounds, making the margin of error 40 pounds.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:03 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson View Post
And you've returned the favor. I think we're even.


I'm not picking on you, despite any impression(s) some may have to the contrary. I don't expect perfection...it's just that your formal invalidation of the Burro weight results appeared to me to say that you do.

I'm still unclear as to why the (knowable) couple of inches height difference across his six foot axle makes his results invalid while at the same time the (unknowable) height of the coupler across the longer axle-to-ball distance on various trailers evidently doesn't matter at all.

I just don't understand why it matters in the one dimension but not in the other, that's all.

And I ask not to harass you, but because you're considered the expert around here, and since I'm experimenting with a weighing method of my own it's important for me to understand the dynamics involved.

Thanks!

Francesca
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:41 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
I'm not picking on you, despite any impression(s) some may have to the contrary. I don't expect perfection...it's just that your formal invalidation of the Burro weight results appeared to me to say that you do.
I will grant you that. I had added my opinion to the spreadsheet in post #1, and upon reflection re-edited it to remove my opinion from that Location. It is, after all just an opinion. For all I know that fully equipped Burro DOES weigh less than a gutted and stripped Compact Jr. I can acknowledge being wrong, as I have been more than once.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:40 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post


I'm not picking on you, despite any impression(s) some may have to the contrary. I don't expect perfection...it's just that your formal invalidation of the Burro weight results appeared to me to say that you do.

I'm still unclear as to why the (knowable) couple of inches height difference across his six foot axle makes his results invalid while at the same time the (unknowable) height of the coupler across the longer axle-to-ball distance on various trailers evidently doesn't matter at all.

I just don't understand why it matters in the one dimension but not in the other, that's all.

And I ask not to harass you, but because you're considered the expert around here, and since I'm experimenting with a weighing method of my own it's important for me to understand the dynamics involved.

Thanks!

Francesca
Depending on the height of the center of mass of your trailer, any side to side "tilt" on a single axle trailer (one wheel higher than other) would effect the distribution of weight on the two wheels due to the center of mass shifting to one side or the other. So if you weigh each side with one wheel off the ground and the other on the ground, your total weight could be in error as each measurement may be inaccurate.

Similar issues could exist with tilt in the front to back direction. In this case, the proportion of load supported on the wheels and the hitch could be changed if the trailer is not level.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:35 PM   #205
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There was a suggestion to link this post to this thread:

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Originally Posted by samcrimm View Post
Hey everyone,

Took my stripped out trailer to the scales today and it has an stripped out weight of 1120 pounds, A little heavier than I would have guessed but that's me. I also hauled off all the crap I took out of the trailer and it weight 560 pounds. It was not a complete trailer on the inside when I got it, so I am sure it weighted more than 1680. Hope this helps someone down the road.

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Old 01-13-2013, 12:04 PM   #206
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"Originally Posted by Andy B
I weighed my 1980 Burro 13 when I brought it home. There was no battery and the propane tank was half full. There was no camping gear in the trailer, all the cabinet doors, cubby covers, cushions, sink, ice box, and cook top were installed. There is no water tank, water pump. or furnace and no spare tire or leveling jacks.

I jacked up 1 side, put two bathroom scales with a short piece of 2x8 bridging the scales, under the tire, lowered the jack and added the weights from both scales together. I then measured the other side the same way and measured the tongue weight using only 1 scale.

The weights were:
Door side 398 lbs
Street side 320 lbs
Hitch 90 lbs

Total weight 808 lbs

When I removed the body to replace the floor, I weighed the frame including the axle, but no wheels and it weighed 235 lbs."


After review of this explanation, I believe I found the flaw in this result that I failed to see before. Because he weighed one tire at a time without noting whether the trailer remained level (correct) or was tilted due to the height of the scales under just one tire (incorrect) I must believe his result to be invalid.
Since I am the one who's weight measurement is being questioned, I will respond with some additional information.

Prior to weighing the trailer I thought about the angle difference by having the scales under one wheel and considered putting blocks of the same height under the other wheel, but decided that the error would be so small that it was not worth the effort. Since this has generated some discussion I made some measurements. The distance between the center of each tire tread is 62.5". The height of the scales plus 2x8 bridging is 3.5". I made a mock assembly with these dimensions and measured that the weight shift on each wheel due to the angle is only 0.16" inboard (less than 3/16"). I calculated that the shift results in an error of 1 pound on the heavier side and 0.8 pound on the lighter side. Lets call it a 2 pound error. This confirms that it was not worth the effort to put spacer blocks on the side without the scales.

I was wondering how accurate the bathroom scales are, so I took the same 2 scales used to weigh the trailer, used the 2x8 bridge and piled a bunch of large unopened dog food and birdseed bags on the bridge. With the weight on the bags totaling 152 pounds, the scales read 147 pounds. Assuming the weights on the bags are accurate there is an error of 5 pounds.

Assuming the scale error is linear (it may not be) the scale accuracy would result in the following errors:
measured 398 may actually be 411.5 pounds
measured 320 may actually be 330.9 pounds
measured 90 may actually be 93.1 pounds

This totals up to 836 pounds rounded off, add the 2 pounds for the angle inaccuracy and that comes to 838 pounds. So the total inaccuracy is 30 pounds and the Burro may actually weigh 838 pounds rather than 808 pounds.

Using Frederick's scales and method, the 2 pound angle inaccuracy would be eliminated. His scales only display in 20 pound increments, applying 20 pounds to each of the 3 measurement locations is considerably larger than the bathroom scale method. In addition the accuracy of the scales would need to be added since the 20 pounds is only what the display indicates not the scale accuracy. The bathroom scales show 1 pound increments.

Andy
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:16 PM   #207
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Excellent clarification...thanks a bunch, Andy!

Francesca
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:35 PM   #208
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If you want to make the .xls format available and assuming it is OK with Fred, email a copy to me & I will post it (and, of course a link to it) on my website.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:24 PM   #209
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I happened upon this thread that was started by Fred a good while back and have taken the liberty of converting his first page to the data that was last shown. I have saved it in 2 formats for excel 2010 and older copies prior 97-03 sw. I could format into a RTF or word doc if desired. Hats off to a lot of measurements that I saw were taken and the forum exchange on the last 15 pages. I am posting the document in a PDF searchable format. Landscape format

Please send me a PM if you would like me to email you a spreadsheet copy since the forum wont allow a excel format.
Fed if this is not acceptable then please delete the attachment.
thanks
More than one way to skin a cat (with all due respect to PITA).

I should have looked at it closer when I printed it.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:30 PM   #210
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If you want to make the .xls format available and assuming it is OK with Fred, email a copy to me & I will post it (and, of course a link to it) on my website.
No problem. If fred says okay then will do. In mean time I printed in landscape mode to capture all the data.
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