USA tug Rip Off! - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-12-2015, 09:34 AM   #15
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I was surprised to see that Jeep is actually raising the tow limit for the 2 door Wrangler from 2000 lbs to 3500 lbs with the 2016 model. In the past you had to get the 4 door unlimited to get the 3500 lb rating.
I wish Subaru would put the Foresters rating back to 2400 vs the current 1500.
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Old 10-12-2015, 09:56 AM   #16
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I bought a full size pickup truck because I wanted a full size pickup truck . I would have bought my truck whether I planned to tow a travel trailer or not. Not everyone wants to drive a small SUV nor was I tricked into buying a truck by some Machovelian plot fabricated by the Auto Manufacturers. We recently looked at some "ultralight " stick built trailers and the lightest trailer was over 4500 lbs dry weight. It appears trailers are getting bigger and heavier just like our homes. Maybe the auto industry is just following the trend.
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:50 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
Perhaps Chevrolet/GMC's re-entry into the mid-sized truck market will prompt others to return and compete against Toyota and Nissan.


But I got the impression that the o.p. was lamenting the lack of sedans with adequate towing capacities, vs. having to buy pick-ups.
I too was hopeful when GM announced the return of the Colorado.
Unfortunately it is HUGE and could only be called a fullsized truck by any reasonable standard. It is larger and more expensive than previous fullsized pickup platforms.
In my town there are streets which are sometimes completely blocked by oversized pickups which take two parking spots wide and long enough to literally block the street lane behind them. No really, an average man can not even look inside the box.... when is this going to end.
The old carpenter's adage (paraphrased) applies here...
Measure your garage twice, buy your truck once.

I would like to see the white line lane marker on in town streets with angle parking and if your truck won't fit behind it, you don't park there.
Already many parking structures even can't fit a so called "fullsized" truck.
Looking from above, we are starting to look like an "N"gauge world with "O"gauge trucks blocking the streets.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:06 AM   #18
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I'll have to agree, Floyd. Trucks are very popular out here in the rural West, and the parking lot a Walmart is typically clogged with oversized trucks that stick out beyond the end of the parking space. I was next to a double cab Tundra last week where almost the entire bed stuck out into the driving lane! My inner vigilante wants to carry a roll of masking tape and mark on the truck's body where the end of the parking space is...
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:13 AM   #19
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Europe has a rating system very much like the SAE rating now in voluntary use by the US manufacturers, but it is not voluntary. Each vehicle must be tested and all of the towing equipment type accepted ant tested and mounted in accordance with manufacturer's instructions. It has been said here that this may limit choices, but there are many types of small trailers available over there and they are quite highly developed unless you consider their system of mechanical surge brakes primitive.
What I would like to see is mandatory, standardized, tow testing, even for vehicles that are not recommended to tow. How expensive could this be? This way marketing is not the driving force behind tow ratings.

Why is the Smart car rated to tow 500 lbs, when my Firefly, with a much longer wheel base, is not rated to tow anything?
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:18 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I bought a full size pickup truck because I wanted a full size pickup truck . I would have bought my truck whether I planned to tow a travel trailer or not. Not everyone wants to drive a small SUV nor was I tricked into buying a truck by some Machovelian plot fabricated by the Auto Manufacturers. We recently looked at some "ultralight " stick built trailers and the lightest trailer was over 4500 lbs dry weight. It appears trailers are getting bigger and heavier just like our homes. Maybe the auto industry is just following the trend.
I was just at the California RV Show at the L.A. Fairgrounds and I did see a number of 17' &19' single axle stickys under that weight. A few down around 2700 lbs and a about 6 in the 3500 lb range, albeit all dry weights and no where near FGRV weight's. But they are all bigger in all directions. A 3400 lb sticky with tilt out ends, that can sleep 8 comfortably, for well under $18k is hard to walk by when one has a big family and a modest budget.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:55 AM   #21
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I was just at the California RV Show at the L.A. Fairgrounds and I did see a number of 17' &19' single axle stickys under that weight. A few down around 2700 lbs and a about 6 in the 3500 lb range, albeit all dry weights and no where near FGRV weight's. But they are all bigger in all directions. A 3400 lb sticky with tilt out ends, that can sleep 8 comfortably, for well under $18k is hard to walk by when one has a big family and a modest budget.
We have 2 large RV dealerships in our area . The smallest trailer they sell is a 24 ft.
They say the demand for trailers under 24 ft is so small that it doesn't pay to stock them.
Both dealers said their largest selling trailers were 28-34 ft 5th wheelers. We have hunted out of a 27 ft trailer ( 6 guys ) and I can guarantee you we did not sleep comfortably.
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:06 PM   #22
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I saw, while traveling through Europe this fall, many vehicles common in this country towing trailers of comparable weights to our trailers. Vehicles that we are led to believe not capable of towing.
........
Not all cars are made to accept a trailer hitch. Remember when cars had real bumpers, and you could go to your local U-Haul shop and rent a clamp on hitch?
Today, you need to find a model that has built in attaching points (bolt holes) at the rear of the side frame members where an after market hitch bar can be added. Some unit body constructions do not have the structure to support the added loads. "Trucks" and truck based SUVs tend to have a body mounted on a frame. they have the stuff to do the job.
Ya gotta have the Right Stuff!
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Old 10-12-2015, 03:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
We have 2 large RV dealerships in our area . The smallest trailer they sell is a 24 ft.
They say the demand for trailers under 24 ft is so small that it doesn't pay to stock them.
Both dealers said their largest selling trailers were 28-34 ft 5th wheelers. We have hunted out of a 27 ft trailer ( 6 guys ) and I can guarantee you we did not sleep comfortably.
I guess that also is an answer to why auto manufacturers don't want to make smaller vehicles that can tow trailers over 1500 lbs (or even less).

The 17' Coleman, with the full bed tipouts at each end, does a good job with two families of four on board, 4 adults in the beds and 4 kids on the couch/dinette beds. When my ex's son wanted to sleep 8 it, unfortunately, ruled out FGRV's by default. But that part of the family always travels in mobs.
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Old 10-12-2015, 03:18 PM   #24
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One of our best friends bought a large 5th wheel and a diesel truck to tow it. The bed is 37" off the ground, as high as our kitchen counters. He needs a ladder to get in the back of his truck. Actually the bed is almost too high to tow his fifth wheel.
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Old 10-12-2015, 03:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
What I would like to see is mandatory, standardized, tow testing, even for vehicles that are not recommended to tow. How expensive could this be? This way marketing is not the driving force behind tow ratings.

Why is the Smart car rated to tow 500 lbs, when my Firefly, with a much longer wheel base, is not rated to tow anything?
We no longer seem to "need a good nickel cigar", but we apparently haven't weaned ourselves from a constant mantra of "there oughta be a law" just yet!
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Old 10-12-2015, 05:49 PM   #26
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Perhaps if fuel prices in the States were to reach parity with Europe, then tow ratings would, too.

I'll at least count it a blessing that they haven't. We have a large continent to explore!

I'll also count it a blessing that, with a 1500 pound egg in tow, I have a lot more options than with a 5000 pound sticky.
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Old 10-16-2015, 09:21 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
What I would like to see is mandatory, standardized, tow testing, even for vehicles that are not recommended to tow. How expensive could this be? This way marketing is not the driving force behind tow ratings.



Why is the Smart car rated to tow 500 lbs, when my Firefly, with a much longer wheel base, is not rated to tow anything?

More to the point Dave, why is the Smart rated to tow and yet my MB E320 wagon is not rated at all? It is a common tow vehicle throughout Europe


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Old 10-16-2015, 11:10 AM   #28
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I think the towing capacities and what gets rated in Europe reflects the very strict and much reduced speeds that trailers are allowed to be towed at as much as anything. Also the US population does have more vehicles of larger size, probably a reflection of many things, cheaper fuel prices being a good candidate for the biggest influence.


So in Europe those smaller vehicles WILL be more likely to be used for towing BUT at much lower speeds than allowed in this country. Speed has a massive impact on stability and stopping ability. Given a greater market driven need, combined with strictly enforced maximum speeds and license requirements. They come up with what works from both a marketing & legal perspective.


Here we know that folks will be driving 20 mph faster if they want, and 20% over weight too if they want. With a more profitable and marketable larger vehicle as an option what legal department or sales department is going to say the company should give towing capacities for small & marginal tow vehicles? Not to mention anyone with a license can tow a pretty big trailer irrespective of any demonstrated understanding or skill required for that type of driving.


Then there is the size of our campers - boomers retiring do not generally want the small pop-up we might have camped in as a child with our parents. Many also want to buy a tow vehicle that leaves room to "upgrade" the camper later if desired. We take more stuff, tend to camp with more amenities than we did in the past. You can see it in the State Parks, number of sites with 50 or 30 amp service is very high, growing up many of these same parks had no flush toilets, and few electric sites and those would have been 15 or 20 amp service. We wanted a hot shower we pretty much had to spend a night at a private campground such as KOA. Or heat and pour the water ourselves.


Not that everyone has these requirements or camping style but as an overall market there is a lot more business and more profitable business to invest ones money in larger and more feature rich inventory. And that does take a bit to haul down the road at 70 mph, 112 kph for our neighbors to the north.


I'm guessing 25 - 35 hundred is the "sweet" spot for towing vehicles other than pickups. Otherwise it probably was not marketed with much emphasis on towing.
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