Used FG Eggs: Are Buyers Crazy?

[marijke]

In case someone wants a very cool Biod, there's one for sale at

"Beter Is Ons Devies" :: Onderwerp bekijken - BIOD EXTASE

If you're on the eastern seaboard, transport would not be that expensive :-)

This might be off topic, but the pictures are great!

[Steverh]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I've had both.. well, still have both. I bought the 1988 16' Scamp when I was really looking for a 13'. Thought that was what I could afford. Funny how that happens!


Then decided it was time for something bigger with a better layout (for me) for longer, much longer trips. Had Escape build me Ten Forward to MY wants. ZERO regrets. Although since I've owned it for 16 months I guess it could be considered a used trailer, but it's still new to me. Just got home from camping for four days... NIRVANA!


The only time I've ever worried about what a car/trailer costs is when I know I'll be selling it in the future. My Escape 5er is going to be an estate problem for my daughter


I say buy what you want, can afford and your tug can pull. And I hope you have as much fun as I do!

this is exactly what I just did. I don't want a huge truck as a tow vehicle so wanted a lightweight FG trailer that was big enough for my purposes. I researched FG trailers during the last year of my career and for a long list of reasons the Escape 19 was my first choice. But I did not like the waiting list for a new one and was going to settle for a Casita 17. Then an Escape 19 popped up for sale and only 40 miles from where I live. And it had ALL the options I wanted. Expensive but as a single, never married man recently retired I guess its a matter of perspective, I could easily afford it. I did try to talk the owner down in price but the interest in this particular trailer was so high (7 calls in less than one day from listing) I couldn't let it slip away. I probably paid $3K to $4K more than its really worth but the market is what it is and that did not really bother me. Like you I have no intention of ever selling it and if I ever did it would be to replace it with a new version of exactly the same Escape trailer. I guess my situation is a special circumstance that probably would not apply to most.

[LyleB]

Originally Posted by Carl Pa

I wanted new B/C I did not want a project, done work all my life. Plus i am not handy with plumbing and electric. Do not want to replace a new floor, frame and whatnot. You have to be lucky to find something in good condition at price that is only a couple of K from new. Was not willing to chase one all over the country looking for one only to be disappointed. Am not well versed in what is in good shape in a RV, so played it safe and got new. I like it and that is all that matters. Carl

I normally think similarly, but my reasoning for buying used this time is as follows:

- I've never travelled with a trailer, not certain I will like it.
- Since I've never done it, not sure what features and sizes I would prefer.
- Not much experience towing a trailer.
- Buying used, I won't be out much if I decide to sell in a year or two.

By buying now, I can start using it now, instead of having to wait for a manufacture date, I get to practice towing with a trailer I won't be as upset about damaging if I mess up, I can better judge if a 13 or 16 foot is better for me, and finally, I can better judge what features/options I really want, not what I think I want. Along with these reasons, I'll have a trailer to satiate my wanderlust while I order and wait for my dream trailer to be created.

One more advantage, I can practice the maintenance and repair items that come up on a used trailer instead of a pristine new one. Things like plumbing repairs, rivet replacements, removal of interior furniture if necessary. Much more relaxed doing these things on an older trailer first.

[Bob Miller]

In buying "Used" the price one has to pay becomes what it's really worth. If you don't think so, try telling the DMV that although you paid, say, $20,000, that it was only worth $15,000 and want the sales tax reduced to the lower figure. LOLOLOL

[CampyTime]

In so many ways, this is a "to each his own" topic but still intrigues me. I would have liked to buy new, but delivery would have added boucou bucks on to the top for me and driving to Backus was not in the cards at the time.

In the end, I bought a 1 year old trailer for much less than PO paid just a year prior. Had slipped off the ball and had several ouchies repaired at Scamp. She still has stress cracks that showed up later and a few other dings but I bought what I could swing and love the trailer to pieces. I take care of her and accept the defects that someday I may take to a gelcoat guy to restore but wow. Nice features and has my name all over it. Once you have an egg in my experience you're all about it. Whether new or used, she's your baby to love and care f

[CampyTime]

Care for. And I made great friends along the way. A trailer I could afford and I take my knocks and accept them and make her my own. At this point I just love to mess around with her and have a few beers on a summers day waxing her to a shine to my delight. Small things and simple pleasures.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by CampyTime

In so many ways, this is a "to each his own" topic but still intrigues me. I would have liked to buy new, but delivery would have added boucou bucks on to the top for me and driving to Backus was not in the cards at the time.
That
In the end, I bought a 1 year old trailer for much less than PO paid just a year prior. Had slipped off the ball and had several ouchies repaired at Scamp. She still has stress cracks that showed up later and a few other dings but I bought what I could swing and love the trailer to pieces. I take care of her and accept the defects that someday I may take to a gelcoat guy to restore but wow. Nice features and has my name all over it. Once you have an egg in my experience you're all about it. Whether new or used, she's your baby to love and care f

Originally Posted by CampyTime

Care for. And I made great friends along the way. A trailer I could afford and I take my knocks and accept them and make her my own. At this point I just love to mess around with her and have a few beers on a summers day waxing her to a shine to my delight. Small things and simple pleasures.

Good post . Raz

[honda03842]

The amount of stuff that came with our trailers was seriously overwhelming. Actually we wished that we could of picked and chosen over the 'stuff' instead of taking it all home. One nice feature of working on our 'used' trailers was getting to learn about the trailer and making it fit our needs instead of the marketing department.

I do realize that the exchange rate is a tremendous benefit for buyers with US dollars, and for Escape sales. If I were considering buying an Escape I would certainly being doing it now.

For many people, particularly for young Newbies, spending a lot of money on a new trailer could be a major family choice. For those retired with a little money it's not so much of an issue.

There's definitely a market for both new and used buyers. Plainly shown by the new trailer order rates and how quickly used trailer sell.

[tractors1]

Ditto on 1st time owners - used is an affordable way to dip the toe into the world of trailers/campers to see if it works for you and yours without the big ticket $ as you can resell for about the same price (more if you are handy and fix/improve/upgrade it.) Many have done the upgrades from backpacker/tent camper/truck camper/trailer as we've aged. It's a process to figure out what you like. Along the way I decided what I needed for long trips with wife, dogs, and the occasional grandkids to the point that I knew exactly what I needed - at that point I bought new to my design.

I was always able to sell prior rigs for as much (or a shade more) than I paid after a few years of use because I did maintenance (and documented same) plus modified them with well-done mods (features) that were not available from the factory.

Fiberglass doesn't wear out. Appliances and moving parts do, but if a trailer gets maybe 30-40 days of use each year, it takes decades to wear those out, and all of them are pretty cheap (under $1K) to replace in the grand scheme of things.

[Thinh]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Ok, I'm probably risking my life by asking this question. But are buyers nuts to pay the asking prices for pre-owned trailers? If I understand correctly, a new basic Scamp 13 can be purchased from Backus for less than $11,000. Why would anyone want to pay $3500 to $5000 for a 25, 35, or 40 year old 13'? Especially when they're liable to need another grand or two (or more) to refurbish them? A 30-40 year old trailer could need a new axle, the frame is rusty and it's not easy to tell if it will soon need repair, the cushions probably could stand to be replaced, and there's no warranty on any of the components (fridge, AC, water pump, etc) if they should fail.

Yes, the old Boler or Casita or Scamp can be fixed up. Sometimes a buyer might get lucky and find one that needs next to nothing done to it... for a while. One can't say the same for stick trailers, which may harbor potentially a larger number of serious hidden problems. But most folks just want to buy something they can camp in right away, something that won't give them any trouble. The percentage of buyers who enjoy fix-up projects is relatively small, I think, relative to the total number of buyers. So I don't get it. What are people thinking when they pay so much for a well-worn or even worn-out egg, when they could have had a new one with warranty, perhaps even built exactly the way they'd like it?

I paid 1,800Canadian dollars for a 1980Trillium. After a year taking easy to re-do it as a hobby with another 1,500Canadian dollars on it, at least somebody agreed to pay me 5 thousands of US dollars for mine and I did not sell it....Just let you know....

[Mike Magee]

I love a bargain as much as anyone. Yes, sometimes a bargain can be found and a person can wind up with a very nice trailer for far less than new. But such bargains are few and far between. More likely, I think, the buyer of a decades-old egg is paying a hefty price and bearing the (not inconsiderable) risk of hidden problems.

Some people have said that I've overstated used egg prices. So let's take a look at some, shall we? Not trying to denigrate any sellers, but showing the asking prices. Here's a 32 year old Scamp 13, basic model with ice box, and visible FG damage, for $5,000. 1983 13' Scamp trailer | Las Vegas, NV | Fiberglass RV's For Sale
This 32 year old basic 13'er might be a bit more of a deal, provided the floor, frame, and axle are ok. Only $3750. 1983 13' Scamp trailer | Early Tx | Fiberglass RV's For Sale
How about a 37 year old Scamp 13? Fridge needs work and cushions need covers, but at least the floor is redone... for $5200. 1978 13' Scamp trailer | Portland OR | Fiberglass RV's For Sale
Here is a 41 year old unit for $3900. 1974 13' Scamp Camper | Bossier City, LA | Fiberglass RV's For Sale
Most of these look like they were bought with few or no options, so they should be compared to the price of a bare-bones new 13'. I suppose if a person is very handy and can fix almost anything himself, the financial risk of buying something that old is minimal. For the person who does not have the wherewithal to do what could amount to extensive repairs, these prices seem ridiculously high. (We have read tales on this forum of people who bought an older egg and ended up finding big, expensive problems they never expected.)

A trailer that's been re-done is worth more, no disputing that. But I'm seeing trailers that look run-of-the-mill, with 30-40 years of wear and tear, offered for half the cost of a new one! To my mind, such a trailer should bring only 15-20% of new, or less than that if they aren't in "ready to camp" condition with everything working.

[Glenn Baglo]

We only know that those are the asking prices.

[Johnny M]

The seller will typically believe his trailer is worth more until he becomes a buyer, and a buyer will typically believe the same trailer is worth less until he becomes the seller. My experience says this is very true in general and even more so with fiberglass rv's, however, we did get a very nice deal on ours even though we have put quite a bit of work into ours and are still not finished.

Also FWIW and IMHO, fiberglass rv's (aside from their general smaller size) are a much better trailer in general all things considered than the typical larger stick built trailer...

[Glenn Baglo]

I wonder how much the conversation on this site and others raise the expectations of sellers and the asking prices.

[Johnny M]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I wonder how much the conversation on this site and others raise the expectations of sellers and the asking prices.

Good point

[Sands]

If one wants to buy one of these trailers one has to be a little crazy because that is the way the market is right now. Long wait lists for new, used going quickly. Case in point: we just bought a 2003 Scamp. I was watching the sale notices and Craig's list closely and initially responded to the ad within 4 hours of the first posting. The seller informed me the trailer was already tentatively sold! After getting answers to a few questions about the trailer I asked to be put on as a back up buyer in case the deal fell through. As luck would have it the deal did fall through and we got an email saying 'trailer's yours if you still want it'...

Looking at the archives of sales past, it looks like FGRV's have always held their value well, but it seems the wait for new built is getting longer and longer and the sales of used getting shorter and shorter. I think one of the factors that could be driving the current market is the wave of baby boomers reaching retirement age. The buying segment of the market is expanding faster than the manufacturing end can keep up with, and since there were never that many FGRV's manufactured (comparatively speaking), the used sales are doing very well also.

At any rate, we are crazily happy with our new-to-us Scamp. We're going from 2,000 square feet of living space to 80, and looking forward to it; how crazy is that? To quote a bumper sticker I saw recently "I'm not a complete idiot; some parts are missing!"

[Bob Miller]

Quote from Post #51... But I'm seeing trailers that look run-of-the-mill, with 30-40 years of wear and tear, offered for half the cost of a new one! To my mind, such a trailer should bring only 15-20% of new, or less than that if they aren't in "ready to camp" condition with everything working.


It sounds like you are trying to equate FGRV deprecation with vehicle and sticky deprecation.


Then look at supply and demand. With a 3 to 15 month backlog, the supply for new units today is, basically, zero and, with many used items , it's the demand, not intrinsic value, that determines price.


As long as there is demand and buyers, the price for used FGRV's is what the price is .... When there are no longer demand and buyers, the prices will go down.

[Scamper Jim]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I wonder how much the conversation on this site and others raise the expectations of sellers and the asking prices.

My observation has been that whenever a new "Buyer's Guide" for something is produced, it generally results in asking prices increasing. However, the more information there is regarding a product or service, the more efficient the market becomes at reaching a fair, market-clearing price.

Buyers and sellers can make more-informed decisions among alternatives. It reduces the number of opportunities for a buyer to take advantage of a clueless little old lady, or a seller able to take advantage of an uninformed buyer by getting an absurd price.

If you want to see overpriced, how about that real estate listing in San Francisco recently of a small shack on a narrow piece of property listed for $2,000,000!

If it’s too high, don’t buy; if offer is too low, don’t sell. You are free to do either, that’s why it’s called a free market.

[David and Nancy]

Those of us that have the fiberglass bug tend to place more value in the aesthetics of FG trailers than in the nuts and bolts. I have a close friend who wanted a small, inexpensive camper to tow behind his 4-cyl. Toyota truck. I convinced him that a 13' FG was exactly what he needed. He is not handy and doesn't want to constantly repair things. Just go camping. We are off the beaten track here in Wyoming, so used units are generally very far away. Sold before we can even get there. And "affordable" units have many years and miles of serious wear and tear. Sure, the fiberglass is durable but the lightweight frames are not. And appliances, pumps, heaters, AC's etc all wear out at the same rate as in sticky trailers. After two years, my friend has completely given up this idea and is still camping in the back of his pickup. I feel my advice wasn't right for him and he should have been more open-minded about light-weight non-FG units which he could be enjoying right now. When you are near 70 years old maybe you don't really need a trailer that will last 30-40 years?


That said, I love that I could sell my Bigfoot for at least what I paid for it in less than a week. But I am keeping this one.

[honda03842]

It's like buying anything. Sometime you find a good deal.

I know someone who bought a '79 Scamp 13 for $1000, another person who bought a 1995 Casita 16 for $3000 and a 1991 Scamp 16 for $6000.

The range of prices are often wide,