Water into Gas.

[Pete Dumbleton]

Detroit's automakers have purportedly seized, er.. bought out patents of items that improve gasoline mileage like the carburetor, etc.

I love a good conspiracy theory, but the carb one breaks down quickly. Automakers aren't petro guys, they are auto guys, so anything that would give one manufacturer a marketing edge would quickly be introduced, not suppressed. Also, Detroit could secretly buy up a lot of patents but how would that affect a Chinese, Indian, Japanese, German, etc., manufacturer?

[Palmer M]

Paul Bostick,
Thanks for that post. The most interesting part is that people may install some "mileage booster", and then modify their driving habits, hence producing the "savings".
My father gets an average of 22.5 MPG out of his '05 Pontiac Aztek, which I can improve to 26.5 on a two-hour trip, all from gentle acceleration, planned deceleration, near-zero stops, and using momentum instead of the accelerator. That's about a 4% gain, just by switching drivers. If someone installs a system, and then becomes a "hyper-miler", then the fuel savings can't be attributed to the new device. You must drive the same way, and measure your mileage the same, before and after, to see if there's a benefit!
I have seen the website asking you to spend $50-100, but they are just re-selling what's out there for free. Like everybody else, I will just have to try it to see if it works.
P

[Darwin Maring]

I had a Chevy Sprint made by Suzuki (4door, manual shift, 3 cylinder) that I purchased new in the 80s that got 55 Miles Per Gallon. ( Yes 55MPG and why can’t we purchase one of these today?) This car morphed into the Geo Metro and the mileage went down.)

I sold it to a fellow employee and he came to see 3 days later and said I must have been driving it wrong because he was getting 75 MPG and then several days later he stated he was getting 129 Miles per gallon.

I was taking gas to work and filling his tank.

A really funny story and I was asked to ROAST him with this story at his 20year luncheon.

[Joe Z]

darwin.....
that was really good LOL I was getting so excited when you got to the 129 mpg part and then "Boom" you where putting gas in his tank. that's funny
Joe

[Patrick M.]

Some more info on this scam: http://aardvark.co.nz/hho.shtml

[CD Smith]

Some more info on this scam: http://aardvark.co.nz/hho.shtml

Gee! The question I have is are they getting paid for every click on their website?

[Chester Taje]

I got pure clean mountain water for sale

[Edward Shook]

Hay Ches you hang on to that water it will be worth a lot more than oil some day. Probably a lot sooner than we think. You can live without oil but not water.

[Chester Taje]

Hay Ches you hang on to that water it will be worth a lot more than oil some day. Probably a lot sooner than we think. You can live without oil but not water.

[CD Smith]

An analysis that might help everyone understand the problem. Who knew that it would take more than 1 kw of power to generate H2 equivalent to just 1% of the fuel I use towing.


Water_to_H2_Analysis.pdf

[Palmer M]

EXCELLENT analysis Charlie!
Darwin, the Metro's mileage went down because they started putting power steering and air con on all of 'em. In late '96, I ordered one - 4 door, 4 cylinder, 5 speed, but with no PS and AC, and I also easily got 55 MPG. I was disappointed if my city mileage was ever below 40. Never missed the power steering on such a light car; in fact, it was an improvement. Also never been a big fan of air conditioning.
P

[Bob Bruns]

I had a Chevy Sprint made by Suzuki (4door, manual shift, 3 cylinder) that I purchased new in the 80s that got 55 Miles Per Gallon. ( Yes 55MPG and why can't we purchase one of these today?) This car morphed into the Geo Metro and the mileage went down.)

I sold it to a fellow employee and he came to see 3 days later and said I must have been driving it wrong because he was getting 75 MPG and then several days later he stated he was getting 129 Miles per gallon.

I was taking gas to work and filling his tank.

A really funny story and I was asked to ROAST him with this story at his 20year luncheon.

I did the same thing to a friend at work to and a week or two later I take gas away he was very werard till i told him what i had done. Bob

[Darwin Maring]

So Palmer M, I would purchase a Sprint today if they still sold them. I wonder what the H is wrong with Detroit and Suzuki that they took them off the market. With all thet MPG I still could not use the express lanes here in Virginia.

I actualy had 2 of them. When I got rid of the 4 door I bought a new Turbo Sprint and it got 42MPG and was one of the fastest cars sold that year in the US.
3 cylinder, stick shift, turbo, intercooler, fuel injected and it was a Blast to drive.

It did not have power stearing, I had to manually rool up/down the windows however it did have air. It was so lite that I drove it for a day with a flat back right tire and the tire never looked flat. Couldn't figure out why it felt loose in the back so got out and kicked the tires.

[CD Smith]

I bought a 1960 Renault 4CV to drive back and forth from Ft. Lauderdale, FL to Coral Gables (University of Miami). Every time I took it in for service I complained about the gas milage. They claimed it should get 47 MPG and all I could get was 45 MPG.

I guess driving a lot at 70 MPH had a lot to do with the poor milage.

[andy s]

Ok I will jump out and tell you that my neighbor a retired TRW engineer andI have been experimenting with Hydroxy boosters and for those to say its bunk no problem you just keep beliving that.
Here is the facts.. much more complex than the plans..Thers lots of voltage problems to over come
theres a problem with heat. etc etc.
Here are the first results from our test model... 17.3% increase in MPG. Not much but it is a start.

Like so many others, I too am always looking for ways to think out of the box. For instance, I have burning used vegetable oil (grease) in my E-350 Ford 7.3 liter diesel for about two years, did the conversion myself. I stock pile the oil and have plenty to keep me going for awhile. Nothing is free, I have to collect the oil and filter it and that takes time and time is money, but it's working for me. Sure is nice passing filling stations.

As far as the Hydrogen generator goes there is tons of information available and I believe that there are folks who are actually getting good results. I can understand being skeptical and I am still somewhat skeptical. That's why I put the (only for entertainment purposes only) I am not endorsing this or recommending it, it's for you to decide for yourself. It looks like it's cheap enough to put the parts together and simple enough to do yourself with maybe some expert advice. I will let you know how it goes as me and some friends are going to put one together and try it. With a 25 to 35% increase in fuel economy it might be worth a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained,right.

I thought some of you would get a kick out of my avatar, how many of you thought there was really a bug crawling on the computer screen? LOL Charlie

Ok I will jump out and tell you that my neighbor a retired TRW engineer and I have been experimenting with Hydroxy boosters and for those who say its bunk no problem you just keep beliving that.
Here is the facts.. much more complex than the plans..Thers lots of voltage problems to over come
there are problems with heat. Also explosion if not done correctly!
Here are the first results from our test model... 17.3% increase in MPG. Not much but it is a start.
We are testing it on my 04 Nissan Frontier 3.3 V6.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Ok I will jump out and tell you that my neighbor a retired TRW engineer andI have been experimenting with Hydroxy boosters and for those to say its bunk no problem you just keep beliving that.
Here is the facts.. much more complex than the plans..Thers lots of voltage problems to over come
theres a problem with heat. etc etc.
Here are the first results from our test model... 17.3% increase in MPG. Not much but it is a start.






Ok I will jump out and tell you that my neighbor a retired TRW engineer and I have been experimenting with Hydroxy boosters and for those who say its bunk no problem you just keep beliving that.
Here is the facts.. much more complex than the plans..Thers lots of voltage problems to over come
there are problems with heat. Also explosion if not done correctly!
Here are the first results from our test model... 17.3% increase in MPG. Not much but it is a start.
We are testing it on my 04 Nissan Frontier 3.3 V6.

I would like to see the dynamometer print outs for this increase in mileage. Do you happen to have a copy that you can share?

One more thing when will the write up show up trade magazines. I get several and I'd like to be on the look for this one.

Thanks
Byron

[Patrick M.]

Here are the first results from our test model... 17.3% increase in MPG. Not much but it is a start.
We are testing it on my 04 Nissan Frontier 3.3 V6.

Very interesting. My questions are:
1. How many miles did you track mileage before adding the device. Do you have a detailed record of every fillup?
2. How many miles have you operated the device to achieve the 17% increase? Do you have records?
3. Have you switched back and forth, testing the car with and without the device? Do you have records?

[CD Smith]

I would also like to ask that your TRW engineer neighbor use a more scientific method.

Like plotting engine fuel trim parameters (available via the OBDII system) for both 'with' the device and 'without' the device.

Because there are so many extraneous factors that affect MPG (wind, traffic, road surface, when and where you purchased fuel, etc.) just using miles traveled divided by gallons added to the tank is not a valid demonstration of the effectiveness of you device in increasing MPG.

[Mike Watters]

Geo Metro/Chevy Sprint/Pontiac Firefly (Canadian version) -
We used to have a metro. Ours was the 2-seater convertible. Loved that car. It was easily the most reliable car I've ever owned too! I usually averaged about 45mpg on the freeway. Top up or top down didn't seem to matter much. It was great in crosswinds too since the profile was so low.

After we got our full-size van, it was a real kick going between them. Get used to driving the van and then step into the Geo and you felt like you were driving a go-cart (they sat REALLY low to the ground).

The convertibles got somewhat lower mileage than the regular Metros because they put freakishly wide tires onto them. Probably a good idea though. I know how I drove mine and the wider tires were getting used.

Burning gas/hydrogen mix:
Of course the apparent mileage goes up. It's not because of any increase in efficiency of the engine however - it's just because some of the energy to run the engine is coming from the hydrogen instead of the gas. It's the equivalent of putting 10 gallons of gas into your car - then adding 10 gallons of alcohol and claiming it makes you go further on your 10 gallons.
The question becomes: where's the hydrogen coming from? In the "hydroxy" example it's from hydrolysis of water. That takes more energy than you get back from burning the hydrogen. In short: it's a losing game. The only way something like that becomes beneficial is if you are able to somehow take advantage of energy that is being lost or wasted otherwise. Kinda like how the heater on your car comes as a freebee. Uses the waste energy that comes off the engine in the form of heat.

Also - assuming the hydrogen is pulled out using electrolysis - the hydrogen and oxygen come off at different poles - making them fairly easily separable. There's not much reason to hang onto the oxygen since there's plenty in the atmosphere - so just handling the hydrogen as a separate unit would reduce the "boom" factor considerably.

[andy s]

I would also like to ask that your TRW engineer neighbor use a more scientific method.

Like plotting engine fuel trim parameters (available via the OBDII system) for both 'with' the device and 'without' the device.

Because there are so many extraneous factors that affect MPG (wind, traffic, road surface, when and where you purchased fuel, etc.) just using miles traveled divided by gallons added to the tank is not a valid demonstration of the effectiveness of you device in increasing MPG.

Well it seems it you are doubtful or you are very interested.
All that I have said here is all I will tell.
You can go on line and find a ton of information.
Again for those that do not belive it works..just keep on beliving what you want.
For those that belive it could work, well it does. You will have to do you own research just as I have done and draw your own conclusions.
They doubted electricity, the phone and going to the moon! Nothing is impossible.