What a Weekend

[Bonnie]

Remember the old Hee Haw song.... "IF it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all...."

Well, I'm having much more fun than should be allowed.

Seems a (I supposing here) new neighbor of the stroller pushing set has decided to clean up the neighborhood. Unfortunately for me and several neighbors along the street, that includes our travel trailers. When I moved into this area, TTs were parked in driveways and at time of use, on the street. No one has had any issue with this. Until now.

Apparently, the zoning regulations are not enforced until someone makes the trek to the zoning office to complain. Which happened. My lovely little egg was deemed derelict and unregistered in the letter I received from the zoning board. Well, they didn't look too hard, because it is registered and works just fine thank you.

As my ex-OTR trucker friend was backing the Egg Krate up the driveway to get it off the street; one of the other TT owners stopped by. Apparently parking a TT in the driveway isn't going to fly either. They said they aren't moving theirs and they are going to fight the ticket. I asked them what the tickets would cost us and they said nothing. I think I will check out my rights here, but man, what an inconvenience. Does anyone know if you can get a restraining order for a PITA neighbor, so they can't walk by your house and get upset about your perfectly harmless TT?

I have determined, I can't back my rig for beans. I know how to back a trailer, but could not manage it with the short wheelbase of the Wrangler and the Egg. After several trips around the block and over an hour of trying. I called my friend, offered lunch and all the laughing at me I could stand, if she'd just be soooo kind as to get the trailer onto the driveway. Which God bless her, she did. She told me later she even found it difficult to manage. Guess that's another skill I'll have to work on.

[Roger H]

Bonnie,

Remember that free advice is worth what you pay for it. Go to your local zoning office and get the orndinance(s) that pertain to the issue at hand. I can understand them limiting parking to some period of time on the street (and maybe long-term yard storage), but driveways are built and intended for the parking of licensed vehicles. Consult an attorney if you need clarification of any of the provisions of the ordinance.

See exactly what it says, and then campaign for an ordinance change to read what it is you want it to read. If worst comes to worst, I'm sure you'll gain enough signatures for a local ballot initiative. More than likely, your City Council when faced with packed chambers, will amend the ordinance in the fashion you want.

Good luck with this one!

Roger

[Robert Brummett]

There's always some pecksniff that wants to improve the world according to their own version of what's right. Unfortunately there are probably more folks without TTs than with. Hard to tell what kind of "packing" that chamber will get if it comes to that. Good luck!

[Brian B-P]

Local regulations vary widely, and I don't pretend to know anything about those in St. Louis. Also, my posts are free, so you know what they're worth! Nevertheless, a couple of items to ponder...

While driveways are indeed for parking vehicles, residential neighborhoods are for residential activities, not necessarily business or recreational ones. It is not uncommon for municipal regulations or subdivision covenants to limit the size or type of vehicles which are parked in driveways, particularly in front of the house.

Trades people who take their work vehicle home (e.g. plumbers) often find that they cannot park it in their driveway, and it is common to require recreational vehicles - both motorhomes and trailers - to be parked beside or behind the house, and often behind a fence. I know people with garages having doors on both the front and the back, so their trailers can be pulled right through and stored in the back yard even though there is not space to get by the house/garage on the side.

Bylaw enforcement officers are likely to be both better informed and more reasonable than a random pesky neighbor - particularly one who complains to the city without even talking to you first. I suggest talking calmly with the enforcement people - remembering that they are not your adversary - and explaining that the trailer is both licensed and quite functional. The trailer may still not be legal for other reasons, but they can help explain that.

[Bonnie]

It's going to be quite the shock, if this neighborhood has covenants, because I've never seen them. Far as I know we don't have a neighborhood association, but that might not be totally accurate. I don't pay dues, nor do I get any sort of mailings about neighborhood info.

No room beside the house for the TT. I'm thinking about downsizing and now I have more reason.

The Zoning office is my first stop on Monday or Tuesday. Working 3rd shift makes those sorts of things really a pain. I will find out what my legal options are too, along the way. I had already investigated storing the TT at a regular storage place, but the renovations will be so much slower then.

I may also choose to make a zoning change effort. There's plenty of boats, tt, SeaDoos and such in the neighborhood.

Zoning enforcement by complaint is not very helpful.

Bonnie

[BobB]

The Good Sam Club published an "RV Parking Rights Manual". You might want to talk to them, as they have been involved in conflicts all over the country for years. It is important to find out what the ordinance or CC&R actually says is prohibited, ie sometimes an RV can be stored behind a fence or screen, but not in front or on the street. We have a CC&R prohibiting RV storage, but it's rarely enforced, so people are currently keeping them on their property in our neighborhood. I gather that city ordinances, once in place, are tougher to deal with. Good Luck!

[Pete Dumbleton]

My approach would be to read the Good Sam stuf and take Roger's advice to see everything in writing. Also check your deed, because that's what you agreed to (or not) if covenants exist.

If all else fails, then consider getting your other neighbors together to erect tacky stuf on all your front lawns until your neighbor caves on the RV complaints. I highly doubt either the City or the enforcers (unless you have buttheads; be careful not to make any!!) care if there are no complaints because this really isn't a health or safety issue. Also, when reading the restrictions, keep an eye out for any your neighbor may be violating

[Bonnie]

The Good Sams site was very helpful.

Made it to the Zoning office today. Got the restrictions, which were written in the 60s when the addition went in -- I can't have farm animals. It's literally four pages long including signatures.

Asked for and got a copy of the complaint. Get this. It was my <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">Jeep</span>, the lovely lady was complaining about. I was flabbergasted. The zoning lady asked me if it ran. Yes. If it was registered. Yes. If it had insurance. Yes. I told her it's my only vehicle. She couldn't explain the rationale for that one. Wonder if the neighbors will take up a collection to get me an acceptable vehicle?

There is a zoning regulation about parking TT and boat and such in front of your properly. The rule is beside/behind the house or in the garage. No hope there for me. Asked for and got the request for variance. Each owner has to apply and pay. $200. No assurance it would be approved. If it is; it's permanent. I'm thinking long and hard about that one.

Seems the hardy soul complained about nearly every house in the subdivision which didn't meet her criteria. The zoning lady smiled very sympathetically when she told me she's been on the phone almost non-stop. Apparently I'm not the only one who's a bit peeved.

[Brian B-P]

It's going to be quite the shock, if this neighborhood has covenants, because I've never seen them. Far as I know we don't have a neighborhood association, but that might not be totally accurate. I don't pay dues, nor do I get any sort of mailings about neighborhood info.

Although it is not a covenant in this case, I would not assume that the lack of some sort neighborhood organization means anything. Restrictions which are specific to the subdivision are sometimes applied to ensure some desired aspect of the area, and built into the conditions for municipal approval of the subdivision development, without any sort of ongoing organization to administrate them.

For instance, I can't cut down a living tree in my yard, according to the subdivision covenants, because the developer wanted to ensure a nicely treed environment. Good intentions, but also good that it is not overly strictly enforced, since trees do need to be managed.

[Brian B-P]

There is a zoning regulation about parking TT and boat and such in front of your properly. The rule is beside/behind the house or in the garage. No hope there for me. Asked for and got the request for variance. Each owner has to apply and pay. $200. No assurance it would be approved. If it is; it's permanent. I'm thinking long and hard about that one.

Since it is permanent, I assume that the variance would apply to later owners. This could slightly improve the value and saleability of the property later, especially if these variances get more expensive or less available in the future.

[Curtis F.]

Bonnie, If you don't mind, would you share which of the suburbs of St. Louis you are in? There are so many little towns in St. Louis county.

I'm over in Mascoutah, next to Scott AFB.

Sorry to hear of your hassle. Make sure you respond to them in writing (or what ever is needed to get the complaint and notice removed from your record) explaining how they are wrong.

I got hassled because someone thought I had too many vehcles. Yes, I'm over the number allowed by zoning ordinance. All 5 were parked in my drive way, on the dead end side street, or in my back yard. I offered to start any of them and drive them around the block, but that wasn't good enough. I've since gotten rid of two of the vehicles, so now I'm legal.

Good luck with the volunteer code enforcement officer, other wise know as trouble maker.

Curt

[Bonnie]

Curtis, I'm actually located in Belleville, near SWIC and Scott AFB, too. When I signed up I chose STL because no one would know where Belleville was. Guess I should change it. It's the St. Claire County Zoning Board that's the enforcing entity. They have been very helpful. I have no complaints about that side of this saga at all.

As an aside, it looks like there's a lot more eggs in the area than I thought. We should plan an egg gathering somewhere close. I'd love it.

[John Perry]

Bonnie,

I hate to be a contrarian, but I would not presume on the good nature of my neighbors to look at my trailer on the street in front of my home for an extended period of time.
There are probably more than you know that do not like it in front of your home.
Do your self a favor and go to a large parking lot or field and practice backing your trailer. Use your mirrors when backing up, angle them down slightly so you can see both the jeep the trailer and you will notice the trailer movement much more quickly. I used to tow my ATV trailer and my aluminium boat with a Suzuki Samuria so I know what short is.
I am an old guy and have have an RV of some sort all of my life, so please don't think that I am unsympathetic to you problem, I have been through it a time or two.

Good luck, I hope you you will be able to keep it in your driveway.
John

[Curtis F.]

I hope you can get the variance approved. Are you on a thru street or one of the dead-enders? Are there cars or pickups regularly parked on the street?

Sending you a PM

Curt

[Bonnie]

Round two is underway. The trailer was written up specifically this time. I'm going to see about getting the variance paperwork submitted. Just got the money together to afford it. Wish I could put that money into the trailer, instead of what may end up being just a fool's hope. Shoot.

[Gina D.]

Not that I agree with the rule here.. but, here it is, and the "Spirit" of it makes perfect sense.

All the residential roads here are pretty much one lane, but 2 way streets. Just enough for the snowplow to get by, or a fire truck. The more vehicles in the street, the more difficult the passage for big machines.

You are not supposed to park on the pavement here, you have to pull up onto the side as far as possible. Makes sense, and is just common courtesy.

The county feels your driveway or parking deck is strictly for your car. If you have one, you must park it there. If your trailer is in your driveway, then your car is in the street. SOOO.. they ban RVs from being parked in car parking areas, and they can only be on the street for 72 hours.

MY trailer is in my driveway, as is my car. i have no other vehicles on the street, so I feel I meet the spirit of the law, even if it is not the letter of the law.

If I should have a neighbor complain (I am not worried about it unless I get a new one) I will apply for the variance based on medical needs (I have to be warm due to COPD and this is a known power grid disaster area)

Will I get it? I don't know. I hear they are near impossible to get.

I have yet to figure out why it's legal for my neighbor across the way to have his beat up offroad Jeeps in his driveway and I can't have my trailer. His Jeeps are strictly recreational, non daily transport. I am not complaining about them for sure. It's his property and they do no harm, he should be able to park them there. I just don't see the difference in how they are classified, given the purpose of the law.

[Bigfoot Mike]

Round two is underway. The trailer was written up specifically this time. I'm going to see about getting the variance paperwork submitted. Just got the money together to afford it. Wish I could put that money into the trailer, instead of what may end up being just a fool's hope. Shoot.

I am so sorry to hear about your issues. I know exactly what you are going through.

Good Luck, Mike

[Gerry]

Not knowing how large a town you live in or anything else about the area I think I would have gone the route of getting the OLD ordinace changed.
If as Dona has said there is room and no danger to the flow of trafic and as far as snow plowing they post parking bans (don't move it and it gets towed at your expense) here in Maine for the major towns and here where we live the plow will just go around your car (hopefully not takeing the side off) so parking on the road is at your own risk.
If your town goverment works anyway similar to ours you would get a partition from the town office and get X amount of signatures (make sure they are registered voters) and then that done (around here anyway, an obscure monthley meeting the issue will be brought up and voted on and changed or it may be put to the town to vote on (which hardley ever happends with mundane town ordinaces.
Just my thoughts.
Gerry the canoebuilder
As Pete said Keep an eye on that neighbor for any...ANY infractions they have.

[Ed Harris]

Bonnie
Sorry to hear about the ongoing and Bizarre troubles with this.

Is that giant Bus RV still parked down the street?

I am amazed that some people feel that their way is the only way.
As far as I could tell your tiny egg was as far from the street and being any kind if eyesore as is possible for your street.
I think the fact that they complained about your Jeep really says it all......CRAZY!

I guess they don't even think you should have a car?

Anyway good luck,all this will even out someday.

Ed

[Linda R002]

I am so sorry to hear about your issues. I know exactly what you are going through.

Good Luck, Mike

We too know what you are going through. Before we bought our house, we checked about parking our RV, since the house didn't have a way to drive to the back yard. The website put up by the city said trailers could be parked beside the driveway. So we bought the house then found the website was incorrect. The city says, RVs must not only be on your property but 15 feet back from the imaginary sidewalk line. And a carport needs to be that far back too. Driving around one block we saw 29 rv's and car ports that violate that rule but the city says, until someone complains, they don't have time to act. We finally found a way to construct a carport sideways to cover our trailer so at least we are legal but it sure isn't what we wanted. I'm just glad we did because it just takes one complainer to make everyone in the neighborhood be under attack.

Please keep us informed of your developments.