What are these and why does everything still work?? - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-04-2016, 11:01 AM   #15
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I like MarkyVasquez' comment "if they included the capacitors that fell out they are needed for a reason." Manufacturer's generally don't add 'extra stuff' to a product and increase the cost unless there is a benefit. In this case the benefit is the filtering and the associated protection of the powered devices.

Thinking about your last post, the converter supplies power which does not have to come from (drain) your battery. It either eliminates or reduces the drain depending on the total load and the converter's capacity. If the total load exceeds the converter's capacity, the battery supplies the portion of the load that exceeds the charger's capacity.

So, using a separate dedicated charger, it seems that you would be trading the converter's capacity for the capacity of the charger. One may be higher than the other.

That said, I'll yield the floor to someone who knows more about this.
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:47 AM   #16
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It will be interesting to see others remarks. The more I ponder this - the better of an idea it sounds. I mean, you have to be on shore power anyway for a converter to work. So the only things that will be using 12v are lights (all LED), possibly fridge control panel, ceiling vent fan (night time only), possible water pump for very short periods of time if no city water. We heat with the roof heat strip or a cube heater, so we dont use the furnace fan at all. While these 12v things are on, the charger will be doing its thing. I cant imaging the battery charger not keeping up with this. And if your not on shore power - the converter is useless. So why not just keep it simple - ditch the converter all together???

The more I think about it - this also reduces the risk of spikes or issues in the 12V from a bad converter (like one with broken off capacitors). The battery will filter all the 12V. This setup seems very simple. I cant believe folks don't do this more offer vs messing with a converter. If the charger can keep up - your golden. The only other negative is you must have a battery installed for 12V to work, but no worries as I always have a battery installed.

What am I missing?
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:03 PM   #17
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"It will be interesting to see others remarks."

Plus one here.

It seems that the fuse and breaker panel is semi-integral to the converter on my 2012 Casita. So, there is the question of how you would maintain your circuit protection.

I have read the praises of converting the Parallax converter to a Progressive Dynamics unit. I believe this change left the factory fuses and circuit breakers in service, but it has been some time since I looked at how the various parts are situated.

http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/4...tion_guide.pdf

So, that's a $200 plus labor option. I'm hoping for a simple & cheap approach to pan out...
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:35 PM   #18
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"It will be interesting to see others remarks." It seems that the fuse and breaker panel is semi-integral to the converter on my 2012 Casita. So, there is the question of how you would maintain your circuit protection.
This all started yesterday as I installed my battery charger and noticed the damaged converter. While doing that, I could not get back behind the bench to access a lot of the wiring runs for doing a tidy job and zip-tying everything factory fresh. Instead of removing the entire bench fiberglass, it looked like I could remove the converter and then reach in thru the hole once the converter was removed. That worked great.

As it turns out, my converter has only 4 wires to it total. 2 (110v +/-) wires coming from the 110v circuit breaker to power the converter. And 2 (12v +/-) going from the converter to power the 12v fuse panel. Thats it!!! Remove those 4 wires, pull the converter, and your done. All the 110v breakers and 12v fuses will still function as should.

The whole reason for all this is I dont want to use the converter to charge my battery period. I installed a group 31 AGM, and the requires a different charger made for AGM (hence the installation of the battery charger). So if Im not going to use a converter to charge the battery, why use it at all, is my thoughts.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:31 PM   #19
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Yes, I recall a warning in regard to the incompatibility of the Parallax and AGM batteries.

I had a Progressive Dynamics charger and distribution panel in my teardrop trailer with an AGM battery and they seemed to work and play well together. Hence, I had read up on this previously, and chewed my lip quite a bit over the $200 ante for the Progressive Dynamics. So, no action to date.

I am interested in the charger - what did you install Joe?

And, Group 31. Hmmm. Maybe more bigger, more better? I was just reviewing battery sizes yesterday and was wondering if I might fit a bit more than the current Group 27 with 95AH.
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Old 04-04-2016, 02:20 PM   #20
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I am interested in the charger - what did you install Joe?

And, Group 31. Hmmm. Maybe more bigger, more better? I was just reviewing battery sizes yesterday and was wondering if I might fit a bit more than the current Group 27 with 95AH.
I installed a charger called a CTEK 4.3MUS. It is a smart charger and works on AGM in the correct setting. Its compact and a quality unit. I actually had it on an old car which had an Optima in it, but I sold the car so I thought - hey, lets put this in the Casita.

CTEK Multi US 4.3 - CTEK Battery ChargersCTEK Battery Chargers

As for the battery, I bought a Duracell group 31 from Sams and it "barely" fit into the compartment - but it did fit!! Yea - just for the more bigger more better factor! I had to mount the hold in bracket a little closer to the door, but that's it. Its a heavy sucker tho!!

Duracell® AGM Deep Cycle Marine and RV Battery - Group Size 31 - Sam's Club
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:04 PM   #21
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Thank you Joe.

If I've got numbers right, this is a change from a 6300 series Parallax voltage converter that could produce a peak output from 25 to 45 amps (depending on the specific model) to a charger that is limited to 4.3 amps peak capacity.

I don't know how much of that 25 to 45 amps (300 to 540 watts) from the converter could actually be applied to charging the battery, but it's available to run 12V loads when AC power is connected.

Depending on your usage, this change could be very limiting in that even when AC power is connected you will be dependent on the battery for meeting any loads higher than about 4 amps (about 50 watts). And perhaps even loads under 4 amps if the charger's control circuit doesn't see enough voltage drop to respond and produce power.

Or, that might work out fine for you. I guess a lot depends on how large the loads are and when they are applied.

John published some measured electrical loads from his Escape trailer here. I ran across this when I was searching for the amps draw for my fantastic fan; it had run the little 35 AH battery in the teardrop down surprisingly (to me) quickly. Maybe it will serve to help project what your peak loads might be.

Just Finding Our Way: Scamp 19

Where did all our informed posters go? We might have to wait for the after-dinner crowd for the 'good' information.
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:07 PM   #22
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Do you know anyone who is a ham radio operator or is into DIY electronics? If so, I'd bet they would be happy to re-install the capacitors into your converter. If you want to remove your converter and mail it and the loose parts to me, I'd be happy to repair it.

--Dan Meyer
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:17 PM   #23
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You won't you'll be able to run your unit on a charger. When charging a 12vdc lead acid battery, a typical charger supplies around 1.5-3 amps constant current, a lower topping current then finally a float charge current that can be as low as 100 ma.

A single 25w 12vdc bulb will draw 2.1 amps.

....Disregard..I didn't see previous, I thought you intended to run off a charger by itself.
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:55 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Civilguy View Post
Thank you Joe.

If I've got numbers right, this is a change from a 6300 series Parallax voltage converter that could produce a peak output from 25 to 45 amps (depending on the specific model) to a charger that is limited to 4.3 amps peak capacity.

I don't know how much of that 25 to 45 amps (300 to 540 watts) from the converter could actually be applied to charging the battery, but it's available to run 12V loads when AC power is connected.

Depending on your usage, this change could be very limiting in that even when AC power is connected you will be dependent on the battery for meeting any loads higher than about 4 amps (about 50 watts). And perhaps even loads under 4 amps if the charger's control circuit doesn't see enough voltage drop to respond and produce power.

Or, that might work out fine for you. I guess a lot depends on how large the loads are and when they are applied.

John published some measured electrical loads from his Escape trailer here. I ran across this when I was searching for the amps draw for my fantastic fan; it had run the little 35 AH battery in the teardrop down surprisingly (to me) quickly. Maybe it will serve to help project what your peak loads might be.

Just Finding Our Way: Scamp 19

Where did all our informed posters go? We might have to wait for the after-dinner crowd for the 'good' information.
Mike, this is great info!! The link to "finding our way" is very useful!

One thing I keep in mind is even that 25-45 amps from the converter to charge the battery - I cant use it at all because the converter will not work with my AGM. So I cannot use the charging pert of the converter at all. If the converter is installed, I actually have to be diligent to have the battery cutoff switch OFF so the converter does not charge it.

As for the watts I need vs what the 4.3 will charge - lets use the chart from the finding our way. I am omitting the AC items as they will be running on AC shore power, including any laptop or phone charging.

04.4 watts Dometic RM2620 Refrigerator
01.9 watts LED replacement lamp
15.5 / 23.3 / 33.8 watts Fantastic Fan
39.4 watts Standard water pressure pump

So Im draining the battery at 75 watts and charging at 50 watts (fan on medium and 5 lights on). But thats ONLY when the water pump is on. Once its off, I'm draining at 40 watts and charging at 50 watts. And if I dont have the fan on, Im draining at 15 watts and charging at 50 watts. So my battery should stay at 100%

Do I have this correct??

To your point tho - why not just fix it and then not be limited! Very good point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Meyer View Post
Do you know anyone who is a ham radio operator or is into DIY electronics? If so, I'd bet they would be happy to re-install the capacitors into your converter. If you want to remove your converter and mail it and the loose parts to me, I'd be happy to repair it.

--Dan Meyer
Dan, that's a very generous offer!! I sincerely appreciate that and its nice of you to take your time to help a newbie member. I'll let you know - I may take you up on it!

Thanks! Joe
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:56 PM   #25
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What are these and why does everything still work??

I would not recommend a battery charger for a converter. They are not filtered or regulated. Even when connected to the battery, their voltage is present on the Casita 12 volt system. The voltage can really vary on a battery charger. If you read the manual on the charger it'll tell you to disconnect the battery cables before charging. I've measured voltages as high as 18 volts on some chargers. They also put out a pulsating DC because they don't have capacitors to smooth out the DC. The battery will work to smooth out most of the Pulsating DC but if your battery ever goes bad any electronics in your Casita can be damaged.




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Old 04-04-2016, 09:07 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by MarkyVasquez View Post
I would not recommend a battery charger for a converter. They are not filtered or regulated. Even when connected to the battery, their voltage is present on the Casita 12 volt system. The voltage can really vary on a battery charger. If you read the manual on the charger it'll tell you to disconnect the battery cables before charging. I've measured voltages as high as 18 volts on some chargers. They also put out a pulsating DC because they don't have capacitors to smooth out the DC. The battery will work to smooth out most of the Pulsating DC but if your battery ever goes bad any electronics in your Casita can be damaged.
AH HA~!!! There is key info I needed and didnt know!! Thanks very much! So I should not charge while using due to these reasons above. Looks like I need to fix/replace the converter!!

Thanks Marky for saving me from disaster (just when I thought I was starting to understand this stuff.....haha!)
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:52 PM   #27
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I would not recommend a battery charger for a converter. They are not filtered or regulated.
Thank you Marky. I guess I could have suspected there would be a reason for all those various bits and pieces in the chargers' circuitry.

I purchased a 2.1 amp 12VDC to 12VDC power supply to operate a little Coby TV/DVD in our teardrop trailer last year as the Coby didn't operate properly on the power from the progressive dynamics PD4000 converter. I clearly have a lot more schooling to do on this stuff and appreciate the help.
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Old 04-05-2016, 12:27 AM   #28
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Joe, my CTEK 7002 has a mode in which you can run your RV on without a battery. Here is what their web site states:

CTEK Multi US 7002 Portable Battery Charger

The Multi US 7002 CTEK battery charger - CTEK's most universal, unique and technologically advanced smarter charger.

CTEK Multi US 7002 Portable Battery Charger Specifications:

For Use With: 12 Volt Lead-Acid Batteries (Wet, MF, AGM, GEL, and Ca)
Type of Charger: Fully Automatic - 8 Step Charging Cycle
Charging Current: 7AH Max
Warranty: 5 Years


The CTEK Multi US 7002 SLA battery charger (Part No. 56-353) is the ideal charger for your caravan, car and boat. The CTEK battery charger is well suited for all-year use. Thanks to its SUPPLY mode the battery charger provides power even without a battery. The SUPPLY mode is indispensable when changing the battery as you avoid losing complicated program settings.

The Mutli US 7002 portable battery charger is perfect for vintage car, boats with one battery, boats with start & service battery, boats with start & service bank, scooter, motorcycle, Quad/ATV, lawnmower, caravan, and tractors.

The CTEK battery charger includes two interchangeable connection leads, one with clamps, and one with eyelet terminals

Features of the CTEK Multi US 7002 Battery Charger
A great all-around universal charger
Fully automatic for charging and maintenance
Patented desulphation function
Compatible with other electronic equipment (no need to disconnect battery from application while charging)
Made for all weather conditions and situations
Designed for safety
Unique supply and recondition mode
8 step charging process

Dave & Paula
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