What pickup?

[Greg H]

Originally Posted by BCDave

Just as an aside.... I have deactivated both the airbag system and the ABS on my "new" 4Runner.

I feel a LOT safer if it is ME driving rather than a computer, and after seeing first hand what airbags do to people in a crash, I figured I owed it to my family and any potential passengers to get those things OUTTA there!

(Of course the ABS light and the airbags warning lights are both on, so I'm gonna have to do a bit more fishing in behind the cluster to find those bulbs and pull them out!)

Don't tell your insurance co. about that.

[mcbrew]

Gotta cut them there seat belt out, too. They's just a-waitin' to strangulate ya!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

Gotta cut them there seat belt out, too. They's just a-waitin' to strangulate ya!

KEEP YOURS!

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by floyd

KEEP YOURS!

I wrap mine twice around the neck before buckling it in.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by BCDave

Just as an aside.... I have deactivated both the airbag system and the ABS on my "new" 4Runner.

I feel a LOT safer if it is ME driving rather than a computer, and after seeing first hand what airbags do to people in a crash, I figured I owed it to my family and any potential passengers to get those things OUTTA there!

Dave, I appreciate its a personal decision based on experince but as someone who has suffered a head injury I would be not be comfortable in a car with the Air bags deactivated.

Broken bones and burns heal way faster than a head injury which may never heal. The long term problems of a head injury resulting from what at the time seemed like a simple bump on the head can result in life long problems that anyone who has experienced would not want to wish on their worst of friends.

Its my understanding that a large percentage of deaths and serious injuries related to airbags have involved children and many involved children who were allowed to sit in the front seat of the car or incorrectly placed by the driver in the rear (lack of booster seat or certified car seat?) Apparently a lot of people dont read their owners manuals.

To keep this somewhat on topic its also my understanding that the air bag systems in newer cars and the use of newer certified child car seats and booster seats for children make air bags systems a lot safer than older systems. When shopping for a new car it might be worth while to check out what differences in the new systems and what the research is on the system in the car someone might be considering purchasing.

I personally would rather go with the odds that mine or my passengers heads (assuming they are seated correctly in the car) arent as likely to be banging up against something hard by using the air bag system than the odds that I or a passenger may end up with a couple of broken thumbs or other more serious bone injuries as a result.


As said its a personal thing and don’t wish to start an argument about the stats but I think the simple bump to the head issue is something we often dont totally appreciate the ramifications of. I know I didnt until I had to learn to live with it. Happy to see many high profile athletes are now making their struggles with head injures known in order to increase public awareness.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Dave, I appreciate its a personal decision based on experince but as someone who has suffered a head injury I would be not be comfortable in a car with the ABS system deactivated.

Broken bones and burns heal way faster than a head injury which may never heal. The long term problems of a head injury resulting from what at the time seemed like a simple bump on the head can result in life long problems that anyone who has experienced would not want to wish on their worst of friends.

Its my understanding that a large percentage of deaths and serious injuries related to airbags have involved children and many involved children who were allowed to sit in the front seat of the car or incorrectly placed by the driver in the rear (lack of booster seat or certified car seat?) Apparently a lot of people dont read their owners manuals.

To keep this somewhat on topic its also my understanding that the ABS systems in newer cars and the use of newer certified child car seats and booster seats for children make ABS systems a lot safer than older systems. When shopping for a new car it might be worth while to check out what differences in the new systems and what the research is on the system in the car someone might be considering purchasing.

I persnally would rather go with the odds that mine or my passengers heads (assuming they are seated correctly in the car) arent as likely to be banging up against something hard by using the ABS system than the odds that I or a passenger may end up with a couple of broken thumbs or other more serious bone injuries as a result.


As said its a personal thing and don’t wish to start an argument about the stats but I think the simple bump to the head issue is something we often dont totally appreciate the ramifications of. I know I didnt until I had to learn to live with it. Happy to see many high profile athletes are now making their struggles with head injures known in order to increase public awareness.

ABS is an acronym for "Anti-lock Braking System" ...NOT "Air Bag System"
I read most of your post before comprehending your point.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by floyd

ABS is an acronym for "Anti-lock Braking System" ...NOT "Air Bag System"
I read most of your post before comprehending your point.

Thanks Floyd! I know that - just needed a reminder - as I said bonks on the head are not a good thing!!!

[Adrian W]

We started towing our 2005 16' Scamp (Side Dinette, Front Shower & Head) with a 2003 Ford Ranger Ext.Cab & it did well, but wanted a little more leeway, e.i. weight to keep the trailer in check in an emergency & more safety features. Therefore we went with a 2009 Ford F-150 Reg. Cab Long Bed, which gave a little better MPG and had the most safety features as standard equipment at the time. It has front bags, like all did, but also side air bags as well as side curtains.

We would not be using it as a daily driver & normally there would only be the two of use. We went with a regular cab without any of the extras (manuel windows & door locks) a base model. Went long bed, it just gives the best ride. We also choose the one with the tow package and extra large fuel tank.

We added a A.R.E. Molded Fiberglass Topper (the Ranger had a tonno cover) which with the hight of the new pickup beds would be easier to get thing in & out of the bed and for the security it gives.

We are very pleased with the F-150, very comfortable to travel in & to drive, get about 17 mpg towing, better if not dealing with grades, passes. About 20 mpg without the trailer.

Our Current Rig:


Retired Ford Ranger:


It does have the ABS braking as well as some kind of anti-sway system while towing. The head rests are tilted toward the front slightly to help prevent whiplash, too.

[BCDave]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Dave, I appreciate its a personal decision based on experince but as someone who has suffered a head injury I would be not be comfortable in a car with the Air bags deactivated.

Broken bones and burns heal way faster than a head injury which may never heal. The long term problems of a head injury resulting from what at the time seemed like a simple bump on the head can result in life long problems that anyone who has experienced would not want to wish on their worst of friends.

Its my understanding that a large percentage of deaths and serious injuries related to airbags have involved children and many involved children who were allowed to sit in the front seat of the car or incorrectly placed by the driver in the rear (lack of booster seat or certified car seat?) Apparently a lot of people dont read their owners manuals.

To keep this somewhat on topic its also my understanding that the air bag systems in newer cars and the use of newer certified child car seats and booster seats for children make air bags systems a lot safer than older systems. When shopping for a new car it might be worth while to check out what differences in the new systems and what the research is on the system in the car someone might be considering purchasing.

I personally would rather go with the odds that mine or my passengers heads (assuming they are seated correctly in the car) arent as likely to be banging up against something hard by using the air bag system than the odds that I or a passenger may end up with a couple of broken thumbs or other more serious bone injuries as a result.


As said its a personal thing and don’t wish to start an argument about the stats but I think the simple bump to the head issue is something we often dont totally appreciate the ramifications of. I know I didnt until I had to learn to live with it. Happy to see many high profile athletes are now making their struggles with head injures known in order to increase public awareness.

I would agree with everything you said - BUT

Before I retired I was in a job where I had a secretary. Her sister was in a very minor crunch-up in New Westminster (for those who do not know New West - think streets with steep hills - like San Fran!) She was in her car on one of those hills when the vehicle ahead rolled back and tagged her bumper, setting off her airbags. The "Blamo" resulted her getting both eardrums burst and her sunglasses shattered costing her the sight in one eye. (her thumbs were OK) Her car was still completely drivable. Would they have saved her life in a hi-speed cruncher - maybe, but when a 10 mph cruncher can leave you deaf and blind - I'll just wear my belts, thank you very much! (And I really wish they were 5-point belts, not just the "shoulder and lap belts" system.)

[Joe Z]

Point well taken.....never thought of that

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by BCDave

I would agree with everything you said - BUT

Before I retired I was in a job where I had a secretary. Her sister was in a very minor crunch-up in New Westminster (for those who do not know New West - think streets with steep hills - like San Fran!) She was in her car on one of those hills when the vehicle ahead rolled back and tagged her bumper, setting off her airbags. The "Blamo" resulted her getting both eardrums burst and her sunglasses shattered costing her the sight in one eye. (her thumbs were OK) Her car was still completely drivable. Would they have saved her life in a hi-speed cruncher - maybe, but when a 10 mph cruncher can leave you deaf and blind - I'll just wear my belts, thank you very much! (And I really wish they were 5-point belts, not just the "shoulder and lap belts" system.)

If this is the case, I would hesitate to ever buy a car from that company. There is no reason the airbags should have gone off. All airbags should not be judged based on a poorly made car. Not all airbags, ABS, traction control, crumple zones, etc. are created equal.

[BCDave]

There are several methods of triggering the airbag deployment. One is the "contactor" which goes off when a compression of the switch occurs. On some vehicles, this is built into the front bumper. (THAT is what I deactivated on mine, by simply clipping a wire). On all vehicles made since 1998 an accelerometer is also used. (Mandatory on all) It is (mandatory) set to blow in a 10 mph collision. So, no matter what you buy, if the bags will blow in a collision at 10 mph, you risk sight & hearing by being "protected" in the event of an otherwise very minor "bonk".

In her case, the vehicle that rolled back into her car was an old (converted for other use) school bus, which resulted in a "heavy" impact at only a few mph.

Her car was considered to be a write-off - even though it was still perfectly driveable (not even headlights broken!) but it was the cost of repairs to the interior due to airbag deployment (plus the cost of replacing the bags themselves, and associated mechanisms) that drove the vehicle repair cost into the "not economically repairable" zone.

If airbags had accelerometers that trigger the big bang at - oh say - 30 mph instead of 10 mph, I'd never mess with 'em, but risking my health in a parking lot bump is just not worth it . (at least for me - your views may differ) Having said that, I can't do much about the accelerometer built into mine, so it may very well deploy the baggies in a parking lot anyway! In a perfect world, I'd replace the steering wheel with a non-bag-equipped one, esp since the NHTSB rated my '97 4Runner as being quite safe for all persons on board EXCEPT the DRIVER, who would likely be killed or seriously injured in the event of a 'severe" frontal crash. So - I'm gonna get killed in a bad wreck anyway, and the bags increase my odds of getting severely injured in a minor one! So, if I want to cut down my chances of injury, lets get those bags outta there if possible!

The real lesson is "don't get into an accident!". However, in her case, she had NO say in the matter. She suffered her injuries entirely due to another driver's inability to get a heavy (manual trans) vehicle going from a stop on an uphill grade without rolling backwards. The immediate cause of injury was the "safety features" on her car, and the "law of unintended consequences" and she paid a very heavy price for the mandated "safety features".

I read (somewhere - a few years ago) that in the event of an impending collision, your best bet is to cross your arms in front of your face to protect yourself FROM the bags - however, this is just SO counter-intuitive that I very much doubt anyone has actually remembered to do that when they are heading into something.

[mcbrew]

It is NOT mandatory that airbags go off in a collision over 10 MPH. The accelerometer is there to prevent the airbags from going off in cases like you mentioned. Newer style airbags have different stages... Basically a low and high powered deployment, depending on the severity of the accident.

[Radar1]

Some good information about air bags is available on the NHTSA website, including allowable deactivation situations.
What You Need to Know About Air Bags, DOT HS 809 575

[Carol H]

I suspect it depends a lot on the age & make of the car as to when and how airbags go off. I only just realized today while I had a small dog in the front passenger seat of my 07 Subaru that it senced something sitting in the seat that weighs less than x so many pounds and a little red light came on telling me that the front passanger air bag system had been deactivated. Suspect this is for the protection of children should they be in the front seat, as most serious injurys from airbags involve children. I know that my 01 Subaru did not have that feature.

[floyd]

Attachment 41154

Originally Posted by Radar1

Some good information about air bags is available on the NHTSA website, including allowable deactivation situations.
What You Need to Know About Air Bags, DOT HS 809 575

Even if you accept that airbags are the best thing since sliced bread,it still leaves one question unanswered.
Why is this guy smiling?....

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by floyd

Even if you accept that airbags are the best thing since sliced bread,it still leaves one question unanswered.
Why is this guy smiling?....

Because that's not an airbag... It's a giant powdered donut.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by mcbrew

Because that's not an airbag... It's a giant powdered donut.

That's gonna take a drum of coffee!