Women travelling alone - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 11-05-2012, 07:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John McDonald View Post
What is the purpose of this ins.? Why does a group need it and a single RVer doesn't?
Cheers John
I do not know the answer to that. But I do know that this issue of the legal definition of "group" vs. the legal definition of "individuals" was the basis of Nancy's being granted the waivers... She defined "The Oregon Gathering" as 250 individuals (more or less) who just happened to camp in the same place at the same time every year. While the activities may have looked organized, we aren't an organization.

On the other hand, "Sisters on the Fly" is an organization.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:26 PM   #16
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Frederick its the reason why when ever the topic of what goes into organizing a meet comes up I suggest that meet organizers if at all possible stick to state/provincial parks and dont try and negotiate any special deals with the rangers or special usage deals. Instead make it appear to the Rangers that it really is just a "Meet-up" group and not an organized event hosted/run by any one party or group of people. Best to keep the organized part of the meet as low profile as possible.

If you rent a full facility as we do in BC the owners insurance company will down load the liability to the meet organizer & they will tell you that when you book the campground. This rings true on both sides of the border. I actually had a little lecture from or local police on this topic after an incident at one our meets. Unfortunately I haven't nor has the local Tin Can group been able to find insurance to cover the trailer meets here in the North at anywhere near as cheap as it can be obtained south of us. The last time I checked it would have worked out to about $30 a trailer to get 70 trailers covered.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by John McDonald View Post
OK, I will show my ignorance. What is the purpose of this ins.? Why does a group need it and a single RVer doesn't?
Cheers John
John, my understanding of the issue is that anytime you have a large group of people gathering together in a social atmosphere the odds of something not so great happening increase well over what happens in a campground were no one knows anyone else in the campground and are less social. Having organized a number of large meets and attend a more than a few others, my observation is there may be more than a little truth to that assumption. As a result the campgrounds insurance companies want that increase in risk to be downloaded to the meet organizer.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:23 AM   #18
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One of the reasons, a BIG reason, I often refer to the Northern Oregon Gatherings as Not Organized Gatherings. Love ya all, but cannot afford to take on ANY of the liability. If we should ever need to "rent" a hall or meeting area... everyone would chip in to pay for it... in cash.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:42 AM   #19
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(n 11 years of RV rallies I have never heard of such a thing. One does not buy liability insurance when you rent a hall for a wedding or event.

It seems like people, either campground owners or insurance agencies seeking a revenue source.

Basically another tax of sorts.... one that will reduce the probability of an event occuring
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:40 AM   #20
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(n 11 years of RV rallies I have never heard of such a thing. One does not buy liability insurance when you rent a hall for a wedding or event.
Norm it has only really become an issue for trailer meet organizer here on the west coast in the last few years. Have you ever paid something called a meet fee? if so it was probable used in part to pay the insurance costs.

In regards to renting halls, when you rent them you have to sign a long contract - or at least the ones I have rented require it. The owners of the hall normally carry an insurance policy that covers them for social events such as dances and weddings etc. but most campground owners or state parks dont have coverage for such social events. In the case of a hall rental you can be sure the cost of the insurance rider is built into your rental fee and in some cases such as the last one I did the hall owners takes a the rider out on your behalf - all in the contact.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:02 AM   #21
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Slightly off topic, but I belong to a small nonprofit "Friends of (Local State Park)". We do projects and maintenance of trails, etc for the park. One important source of funding is grants. Recently we have had to show proof of liability insurance for our group to apply for a grant. This has been true only for the past 3 or so years.

So, the larger point is that any organized group seems to be a potential target for a lawsuit. Everyone involved seems to want to make sure that those around them are insured so they are not the only "deep pocket".
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:44 AM   #22
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Carol...Absolutely I have never paid a 'meet fee; for a rally and never signed a contract to rent a hall that required me to carry liability insurance.

It's amazing what we do to complicate life. When I was a mayor, the first day a resident sued the town because he slipped on the leaves, it was fall afterall, claining we had impared his sexual ability.

The town's insurance company wanted to settle. I said no; figuring at least people need to take responsibility for walking. We won, the resident backed off.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:26 AM   #23
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Unhappy Warning! The life you complicate may not be your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
It seems like people, either campground owners or insurance agencies seeking a revenue source.
It's probably an unintended consequence of some incident similar to the famous McDonald's hot coffee incident, but something that happened with a group at a campground. We may never know what that incident was... From the perspective of a Campground Operator an individual's incident may be recovered from, but magnified by the multiple participants of a group it becomes totally devastating.
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It's amazing what we do to complicate life.
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo
One individual's innocent accident is another individual's devastating tragedy.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:31 PM   #24
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The town's insurance company wanted to settle. I said no; figuring at least people need to take responsibility for walking. We won, the resident backed off.
The problem for trailer meet organizers such as myself is that in order to fight back you need to hire a lawyer to help you do that. Being in Public office you know doubt had a budget for that type of thing and in many cases local governments have a staff lawyer to handle it or at least one on contract. No personal out of pocket expense to you as the Mayor as a result of choosing to fight back.

I had a real good wake up call on this issue as a result of the last meet we held in BC. An incident took place which resulted in 3 people being injured. As a result of that incident the local authorities where involved in investigating it. But as was clearly pointed out to me by two different authorities involved in doing the investigation there is a very high likelihood that in the event that one of the injured parties files a civil liability case in court due to their injuries, I can and should expect to be named in the case simple due to having organized the meet. Just as the owner of the campground will also be named even though they had nothing to do with the incident either, other than it took place on their property. The parties investigating the incident know as well as I do that what happened had nothing to do with me or the owner of the campground. In fact I wasn't even in the area of the incident when it took place. Regardless I would/will need my own legal representation to put forward my case in order to have my name removed from the proceedings should it end up in court. From personal knowledge of civic liability cases I know for a fact what they have warned me of is very true. Five months later I still sit on pins and needles waiting to see what the final outcome if any will be as a result of that incident and how hard my personal pocket book will be hit should the whole mess end up in court.

Funny enough the majority of those who attended that meet had a great time despite the above mentioned event and the crazy weather. Most have had more than a few good laughs over what happened as they are totally unaware of whats happened since or in the background or the possible not so fun ramifications to me as the organizer. I can only hope that they pass a hat around the campfire at the next meet to help cover my expenses should the situation go south, although I suspect whats collected may not but a dent in the actual costs.

As I said Donna's approach in holding a None Organized meet is a good one, even better still is to buy an insurance package for the meet if you can get one.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:02 PM   #25
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Carol,

Certainly hope your not sued; no one needs the hassle even when innocent. If you get sued wear those shoes to court, that'll distract them at least.

My point about the 'citizen and leaves' was more about the propensity of people to sue over nothing or events they initiated themselves.

Certainly our town had insurance just as an Oregon park must, even if self-insured. My view is that I did not want to encourage the frivilous suit.

Personally I carry a general liability policy and have for decades.

My personal point is that all the attempts at regulation, transfering of normal business costs and like events will cut into the number of people who can justify going to a rally.

RV use is dramaitically down, at least on the east coast. Actually just about every where we went this year campground owners said business was down.

As a really 'old person', I do not worry about costs too much since I'm programed to spend it all before I die. If I run out of money before natural causes take me, at least I will have had 11+ years of RVing. The only thing that could cripple us is hyper-inflation.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:35 PM   #26
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O.K, I'm confused...

The thread Title is "Women traveling alone" (which I sometimes do)...but that subject sorta peters out after post #4.
Weirdly, at least to me, in that post Carol responds to this quote from a "Donna":
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by paris127
I keep thinking there is a group of women out there travelling together and I just need to find them.... I am sure you guys are my tribe. peace Donna
But that post doesn't appear anywhere in this thread prior to Carol's post!?!?

Has the discussion of that subject been moved/renamed/relocated-?

Francesca, at sea as usual...
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:38 PM   #27
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Thanks Norm, my feeling is what will be will be and not much I can do about it and knowing the facts of the situation I am not likely to loose anything other than the legal fees. I also carry personal insurance which would more than cover me any which way it goes but the other real life reality is that to put in a claim for a thousand or so in legal fees may not be in my best interest taking into consideration the insurance deductible and future premium increases which often result from putting in such a small claim.

Seems this has once again gone off on a topic and probable belongs in meet organizing thread more than a single women camping thread! Sorry about that folks! Its just that I dont think a lot of people who attend meets have any real idea as to what goes into organizing them or the expenses to the organizers.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post

Has the discussion of that subject been moved/renamed/relocated-?

Francesca, at sea as usual...
moved/relocated!

Edit to add: Apologizes for taking the thread slightly off topic although not entirely. The discussion regarding the need for meet organizers to carry insurance was the result of a poster wondering why Sisters of the Fly, a travel trailer womens group needs to charge a $60 yearly membership fee.
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