Year Scamp 13 weight was 1,000 pounds? - Page 4 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-30-2015, 01:50 PM   #43
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So Carol, you made me look…

in the data from Trailer Weights in the Real World I noticed a number of trailers from several manufacturers that appeared to be underweight on the tongue (at least by the conventional 10% standard). What I did find interesting is that the ones that appeared to be the most underweight relative to total weight were all double axle trailers. 2 of the 4 listed Fiberstreams and 3 of the 7 listed Escape 19s appeared to be significantly underweight on the tongue.

I would love to hear what folks have to say about that observation. Conventional wisdom, as I have heard it, is that double axle trailers are inherently more stable. Does that, in turn, invite careless loading, or is there something else going on here?
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:27 PM   #44
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When I purchased my Escape 19' in 2013, the batteries were installed in a vented box within the front passenger side dinette bench seat of the trailer. Since then, in order to get a more favorable distribution of weight within the trailer, Escape have moved the batteries onto the front of the trailer, either in the front storage box or on the frame. Escape will no longer install the batteries inside the trailer. Seems to me that Escape is taking an active role in helping to ensure that their trailers have an appropriate weight distribution direct from the factory.
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:51 PM   #45
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Safety Guides and Videos

"It is unfortunate that the manufacturers don't make a small investment in "How To" books for their trailers. To me this could be a differentiator in the market place. For those of you have looked at Kimberley Caravans under General Chat, you'll note that they have 15 short books that provide information that is helpful to the buyer and owner. To my knowledge not a single NA manufacturer provides a single book."

Yes, manufacturers should get more involved in safety issues--it's in their best interest too. It would not take much of an investment.

Safety education is a problem of Human Nature being involved--that is, just want to get going , never mind a lot of reading. If the manufacturers had a few different choices--simple but direct safety brochures with diagrams & pictures, or even kind of a basic "quick start guide" (like the one that comes with a camera, cellphone or printer along with the 144 page guide that almost no one ever reads) , and some videos. All those things help. The videos may be the best way, but not the only way, needed to get the messages across to the impatient public.

Mark
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Old 04-30-2015, 03:50 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
So Carol, you made me look…

2 of the 4 listed Fiberstreams and 3 of the 7 listed Escape 19s appeared to be significantly underweight on the tongue.

I would love to hear what folks have to say about that observation. Conventional wisdom, as I have heard it, is that double axle trailers are inherently more stable. Does that, in turn, invite careless loading, or is there something else going on here?
Same observation made and whats more startling regarding the differences in weights is there is a 210 lb tongue weight difference on the same brand/size/age trailer with the lightest tongue weight vs the one with the most weight on the tongue. But the difference in axle weight is the opposite - the trailer with the lightest axle weight is also the heaviest on the tongue. Appears to me to be two extreamly different approaches to loading the same trailer. Perhaps a better question may be what was the guy with the same trailer that is loaded up more conventionally weight wise doing differently from the others?

I also know Frederick has not done any weigh ins at the Bandon meet for the last few years and I may be mistaken but I don't think he has done a weigh in since the change in location of the batteries took place, so I am not sure that can be used as an explanation for the big swing in tongue weights - simply moving the batteries forward about 4' or so isn't going to account for a 200lb + weight difference on the tongue regardless.

The Fiberstreams I have no idea as to historically what one could have or should expected them to weigh originally coming out of the factory. Frederick owns at least one of the ones listed maybe even be that his trailer appears more than once on the list. Perhaps he can shed some light as to why some appears to have light tongue weights based on conventional towing wisdom.
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Old 04-30-2015, 04:31 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Same observation made and whats more startling regarding the differences in weights is there is a 210 lb tongue weight difference on the same brand/size/age trailer with the lightest tongue weight vs the one with the most weight on the tongue. But the difference in axle weight is the opposite - the trailer with the lightest axle weight is also the heaviest on the tongue. Appears to me to be two extreamly different approaches to loading the same trailer. Perhaps a better question may be what was the guy with the same trailer that is loaded up more conventionally weight wise doing differently from the others?

I also know Frederick has not done any weigh ins at the Bandon meet for the last few years and I may be mistaken but I don't think he has done a weigh in since the change in location of the batteries took place, so I am not sure that can be used as an explanation for the big swing in tongue weights - simply moving the batteries forward about 4' or so isn't going to account for a 200lb + weight difference on the tongue regardless.

The Fiberstreams I have no idea as to historically what one could have or should expected them to weigh originally coming out of the factory. Frederick owns at least one of the ones listed maybe even be that his trailer appears more than once on the list. Perhaps he can shed some light as to why some appears to have light tongue weights based on conventional towing wisdom.
Just a reminder - With Frederick's blessing, I've been keeping an Excel Spreadsheet version of "Trailer Weights in the Real World" that has been updated many times by owners weighing their own trailers. There are currently 137 entries. A filter/sort function has been added by
Steve LaBoard that lets you look at specific brands, lengths, etc.

The file can be found here.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:12 PM   #48
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Jon, I really appreciate the work you, Frederick, and Steve have done to make that data available, up-to-date, and well-organized. I use the spreadsheet often, and refer many inquiries there. Sure wish there were a one-stop quick link...
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:17 PM   #49
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I did some more playing with Jon V's spreadsheet (had it calculate the percents) and noticed that quite a few of the Hunters were also very light on the tongue, including one that was below 4%. Seems like that's another model for which loading is critical. Ironically, all of the Scamp 13s, which started this whole conversation, were solidly in the 10-15% window.

Okay, I confess... I'm a data junkie!
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:01 PM   #50
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"It is unfortunate that the manufacturers don't make a small investment in "How To" books for their trailers. To me this could be a differentiator in the market place.

Mark
Go to the Scamp website and check out the many "How To" videos they have on every system on a Scamp as well as hook-up, towing and set-up.
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Old 05-01-2015, 07:26 AM   #51
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To read a book you pick it up and read it.

To view a video you have to have a device to view it on and have a connection. You have nothing if either one of the above is not available.


Not to mention that it may be impossible for someone to be standing in front of the trailer, appliance etc. while viewing said videos.


Videos can be very helpful as a supplement to printed material, but be it 2015 or not, there is still a place in the world for hard copy.
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:32 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
To read a book you pick it up and read it.

To view a video you have to have a device to view it on and have a connection. You have nothing if either one of the above is not available.


Not to mention that it may be impossible for someone to be standing in front of the trailer, appliance etc. while viewing said videos.


Videos can be very helpful as a supplement to printed material, but be it 2015 or not, there is still a place in the world for hard copy.
Add up all the hard copies that came with my trailer and you have to keep your back straight to lift them!
There's the brochures and the owner's manual, plus a manual for every device on board replete with pictures How-Tos and parts lists.

If that ain't enough there's the manufacturer's website , the website of every contributing manufacturer, and of course MFROG (and others).
There are printers if hard copies are needed.

If all that fails... there is always a trip to a fiberglass rally where hands-on help and training is available for the asking.
Don't forget Smart phones and with DATA no less.

Heck , new cars are coming with built-in WIFI and a big screen dash. looking out the windshield or reading the owner's manual just isn't entertaining enough anymore!
It seems TMI is getting to be the real problem!
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Old 05-01-2015, 10:32 AM   #53
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Hmmmmm... I've yet to see a manual for a Scamp, but I am sure that they exist somewhere.


But I think that you make my point, most of your suggestions require that the buyer/owner do something that the manufacturer should have done, but didn't do.


And I tried printing out one of those videos, didn't work out so well...
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Old 05-01-2015, 10:48 AM   #54
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My Scamp came with a written manual AND DVD's loaded with videos to back it up. Plus, they packaged all the manuals with the awning, fridge, A/C etc. Well, everything but the Dexter Axle which to me was the most critical!! Anyway, they didnt weigh me down.... .

Hey guys...NOTHING will ever replace good common sense which means asking questions, looking at manuals, videos..... well you know what I mean.

But honestly, with my 5 personal years of RVing with the Scamp, (also when I was a kid) I've seen situations with ALL types of campers and think-- You should NOT own an RV!! And I'm sure yall have seen the same thing.

Ok..my gripe here is, I hear that Escape, Oliver and some others thoroughly go over their trailers with the customer BEFORE they're taken out of the factory. Scamp did NOT do that with me. It was the lil ole fart that needed to retire that rushed me through.... would not take the time to give me "hands-on". Then I struggled with the goofy stabilizers that Scamp puts on the back of their trailers at the first campground and nearly ruined one of them because of it. Hopefully he's gone now and they've changed their introduction to new trailers to someone more caring.

My Scamp did not come with a fire OR carbon monoxide alarm and felt it should. They DO warn in the manual AND vids about CO poisoning which I feel should be covered in a walk-through which should also include wheel bearing maintenance. NOT a 30 min. detail how-to. But just a simple "Keep a watch on your wheel bearings.... ".

I may be off on my thinking, but this is just what I experienced and feel should have been or SHOULD be done.
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Old 05-01-2015, 10:53 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post

Not to mention that it may be impossible for someone to be standing in front of the trailer, appliance etc. while viewing said videos.


Videos can be very helpful as a supplement to printed material, but be it 2015 or not, there is still a place in the world for hard copy.
Well the reality is Bob that every Scamp DOES come with paper manual as well as one for each appliance, that one can sit in front of their appliance and read while trying to figure out what is wrong with it and they have done so for YEARS - even my 24 year old trailer came with a complete package.

But the reality of the new digital age is that those paper manuals supplied by the appliance manufacturer may now only be one page long showing you the very basic use of the item and directing you to a website to download the PDF for full instructions for the item. I have purchased a number of items in the past couple of years that did not come with anything other than an 2 page instruction card. If you want more details as to operation you need to go online and download the PDF and store it on your laptop, iPad or smart phone and sit with that in front of the item while you try and figure out how to use it.

In the old days we could at least expect a DVD/CD to come with the item with the complete instruction manual on it. With the death of the DVD/CD player on computers that practise has pretty well vanished as well. Digital documents only are the new reality.

As most people here who have been around awhile know Scamp is the most old school of all the trailer manufactures when it comes to using new technology. It only been in the last 8 years or so that they even had e-mail. The webpage up until just a few years ago was a simple one of only a couple of pages directing you to call them on a 1-800 number. No online parts store, no interactive videos - it was about as simple a webpage as a company could have & still be in biz. By the photos on the old webpage they looked like they were lost in the 70's.

Bottom line is if Scamp stops supplying paper manuals for people such as yourself who are not wishing to embrace the new digital world I don't think it would be something they choose to do but were like you forced to do!
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Old 05-01-2015, 11:06 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darral T. View Post
My Scamp came with a written manual AND DVD's loaded with videos to back it up. Plus, they packaged all the manuals with the awning, fridge, A/C etc. Well, everything but the Dexter Axle which to me was the most critical!! Anyway, they didnt weigh me down.... .

Hey guys...NOTHING will ever replace good common sense which means asking questions, looking at manuals, videos..... well you know what I mean.

But honestly, with my 5 personal years of RVing with the Scamp, (also when I was a kid) I've seen situations with ALL types of campers and think-- You should NOT own an RV!! And I'm sure yall have seen the same thing.

Ok..my gripe here is, I hear that Escape, Oliver and some others thoroughly go over their trailers with the customer BEFORE they're taken out of the factory. Scamp did NOT do that with me. It was the lil ole fart that needed to retire that rushed me through.... would not take the time to give me "hands-on". Then I struggled with the goofy stabilizers that Scamp puts on the back of their trailers at the first campground and nearly ruined one of them because of it. Hopefully he's gone now and they've changed their introduction to new trailers to someone more caring.

My Scamp did not come with a fire OR carbon monoxide alarm and felt it should. They DO warn in the manual AND vids about CO poisoning which I feel should be covered in a walk-through which should also include wheel bearing maintenance. NOT a 30 min. detail how-to. But just a simple "Keep a watch on your wheel bearings.... ".

I may be off on my thinking, but this is just what I experienced and feel should have been or SHOULD be done.
You did get a follow-up on your way home though. I often think this is better anyway since it gives time to digest that first "bite" of information given at the factory.
I recommend newbies go to a ScampCamp soon after purchase where they can get a good exposure to information and have questions answered.
I have bought a lot of cars and even houses, and have never gotten a seminar with any of them, same is true of the tools and appliances I have bought over the years.
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