'82 Scamp Axle - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-03-2012, 06:06 AM   #15
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Just to hijack the thread, are you (that is, the original poster) the Steve Wolverton of Puffin fame?
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Roy in TO View Post
I think someone with a band saw should cut through the rubber on a dead axle and post it so everyone knows what happens inside. It would be like giving your body to science, but in this case it would be the engineers. Us!
pretty sure all that happens is the rubber weakens and sags so unless it was multi colored rubber it wouldn't look like much.

my questionis this though,,,new high performance specs are to use urethane bushings in things like sway bars, control arms ...
wonder if urethane would outlast rubber in these suspensions?
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:00 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Andrew Gibbens View Post
Just to hijack the thread, are you (that is, the original poster) the Steve Wolverton of Puffin fame?
I've kinda wondered about that too Andrew. Last time I saw Steve & The Puffin was at LCG-II in 2007 I think. Unless my memory fails (not unlikely ) Steve at that time was either thinking of or had sold The Puffin & was considering another build??
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:12 PM   #18
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Sorry Roy, but my trailing arm 2004 came with a 22.5 up angle...
Sorry Floyd, my response was with respect to the OP's initial question of deciphering a short form order and stating what Dexter reccommends.

Each person needs to determine what best suits their needs.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by john warren View Post
pretty sure all that happens is the rubber weakens and sags so unless it was multi colored rubber it wouldn't look like much.

my questionis this though,,,new high performance specs are to use urethane bushings in things like sway bars, control arms ...
wonder if urethane would outlast rubber in these suspensions?
The rubber compresses and loses it's elasticity. There are pictures posted but the photographs could better show exactly what happens. The deformation is permanent.
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:22 PM   #20
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I just sent an email asking for the specs for my '84 13' axle and Kent said 22.5" down. Must have been a typo in your email from him.
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:31 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by evanwilliams View Post
I just sent an email asking for the specs for my '84 13' axle and Kent said 22.5" down. Must have been a typo in your email from him.
You may well be correct Evan. I also inquired last year at Scamp & received the following reply from Trent Fisher -

"----- Original Message -----
From: Trenton Fisher
To: Harvey
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 2:27 PM
Subject: RE: 1984 Scamp 13' ???


Hey Harvey

I cannot access information on your trailer. Our factory burned down in January 2007 and we lost all the records prior to that. I can tell you that the original axle should have had a 22.5 degree down angle when it left the factory. It should have been a 4 lug axle with no brakes as well. As for the tail lights you can order those on our internet parts store at scamptrailers.com. Look for the driver side tail light and passenger side taillight under the electrical department.

Thanks

Trent"


I'm still doubtful that the original angle on these vintage trailers was 22.5* down. The leading torsion arms on my 'original' axle were at least 10-15* UP & more likely 22.5*. There was NO flex at all in the torsion arms & it appeared that the 175/70R13 radial tires had been making contact with the underside of the wheel well (at least on severe bumps). I didn't measure it but I'd say there was less than 2" of clearance between the top of the tires & the wheel well. I suppose it is possible that the torsion arm shank (& the rubber bushings) had turned inside the axle tube but it would have had to be at least 40* to end up at the point they were, & I somehow just can't see that happening. I'm more inclined to believe they originally left the factory at maybe 10* (or even 22.5*) up angle and through the years had lost all flex in the rubber bushings, allowing the stub to 'twist' enough that there was no flex left in the suspension. I knew for sure that I wanted more 'lift' & I also wanted to add brakes so I ordered the 22.5* down angle leading arm axle & the 'high profile' side mounting brackets. When I removed the original axle I 'torched' off the old bracket sides, leaving the upper part (1/4" steel) as a place to weld the new brackets to rather than the relatively thin trailer chassis. It also aided in locating the new axle as it was a 'starting place' to square the new axle to the coupler. I also ordered the 5 on 4.5 lug pattern. The new tires/wheels (ST175/80D13) are somewhat taller (a little larger diameter) than the radials I took off but with the new axle I still have 6" clearance between the tire & wheel well. Just my opinion but I'd say the folks at Scamp are using current specs when answering questions about the vintage trailers. I understand newer trailers (since the fire) have trailing arm torsion axles & probably do indeed start with an up angle. We've had several members here mention the 'low' ride & loss of 'flex' in their older trailers. In my mind I just can't reconcile that with a 22.5* down angle leading arm axle . If the rubber 'torsion suspension' lost that much resilience & actually turned that much in the axle tube, why would it stop at that point & still provide some support instead of turning more & actually put the tire in constant contact with the wheel well??


These pix show the old axle torsion arm, both street & curb side, ground clearance with the old axle, a not very good pic of the new axle leading arm (street side) & ground clearance with the new axle -

Attached Thumbnails
Copy of IMG_1826.JPG   Copy of IMG_1818.JPG  

IMG_1695.JPG   IMG_3347.JPG  

IMG_3348.JPG  
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:08 PM   #22
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I think you're right, Harvey. If the rubber inside the axle was shot enough to let it rotate from 22.5* down angle to about 10* up angle (what mine looks like now) I'd think the axle would just completely fail and let the tire rest against the top of the wheel well.

I want to keep my trailer a little low so I can still get it inside the garage so I think I am going to order my axle as 10* down, which I'm hoping will make the leading arm about level when the trailer is on the ground resting on the axles and still give me a couple more inches of wheel well clearance and a softer ride.

One thing I'm not sure about is if I should go with the "high profile" brackets or if that would be too much lift over my current axle (in addition to the 10* down arm) to get my trailer into the garage. Does anyone have any experience with the hi pro brackets vs stock '80s axle mounting height?
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:17 PM   #23
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Hi Andrew,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Gibbens View Post
Just to hijack the thread, are you (that is, the original poster) the Steve Wolverton of Puffin fame?
Yep - it's me.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:21 PM   #24
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Evan,

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Originally Posted by evanwilliams View Post
I just sent an email asking for the specs for my '84 13' axle and Kent said 22.5" down. Must have been a typo in your email from him.
My email from the beginning post in this thread came from Trent who stated it was 22.5 up. That's what caused me so much confusion.

I'm going with the Flexiride so I can just dial in the stance I want on my camper.

Thanks,
Steve
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:29 PM   #25
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The Dexter axle data sheet available online gives all the information needed to work out what start angle will give what ride height, though you'll need to do some adding 'n' subtracting.

This is the current Dexter #9 sheet, but you might want to go via the Dexter home page to get the up-to-date version.

Look for the table shown in the attachment below as that contains all the info you need. You then need to crawl under your trailer to measure the current height from the ground to the underside of the frame rails where the axle sits - this, plus whatever rise you want, tells you what result you want from the table.

While under the trailer with a tape measure it would be good to check the 'D' dimension (centre of hub to ground) for your current wheels if you are keeping those, and use that actual dimension instead of the sample wheel/tire dimensions shown by Dexter.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:36 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by evanwilliams View Post
I think you're right, Harvey. If the rubber inside the axle was shot enough to let it rotate from 22.5* down angle to about 10* up angle (what mine looks like now) I'd think the axle would just completely fail and let the tire rest against the top of the wheel well.

I want to keep my trailer a little low so I can still get it inside the garage so I think I am going to order my axle as 10* down, which I'm hoping will make the leading arm about level when the trailer is on the ground resting on the axles and still give me a couple more inches of wheel well clearance and a softer ride.

One thing I'm not sure about is if I should go with the "high profile" brackets or if that would be too much lift over my current axle (in addition to the 10* down arm) to get my trailer into the garage. Does anyone have any experience with the hi pro brackets vs stock '80s axle mounting height?
Dexter's website shows the height difference between standard brackets & the high profile is 1" (for a #9 axle). On my trailer the high profile brackets added 1 1/2" (1/4" old bracket, 1" HP bracket, & 1/4" bracket thickness over the thickness of the mounting bracket on the axle) since I left the top of the original axle bracket on the chassis as a welding point rather than try to weld the new brackets to the thinner chassis tubeing that while in good shape, has 28yrs of use & road corrosion that might weaken it if welding new material to it.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:45 PM   #27
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These pix show the old axle torsion arm, both street & curb side, ground clearance with the old axle, a not very good pic of the new axle leading arm (street side) & ground clearance with the new axle -
You can tell the original start angle from those pictures. You take one line bisecting the torsion arm, the second line bisects the diamond weld going to the axle tube from front to back. The difference between them was the original start angle.

The top two look to me to be about 10 up.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:03 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by stevewolverton View Post
Hi Andrew,



Yep - it's me.
And not wanting to hijack the thread, but inquring minds wanted to know. What is a Puffin? It took some digging, but is this it?
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