'82 Scamp Axle

[Harvey]

Originally Posted by evanwilliams

I just sent an email asking for the specs for my '84 13' axle and Kent said 22.5" down. Must have been a typo in your email from him.

You may well be correct Evan. I also inquired last year at Scamp & received the following reply from Trent Fisher -

"----- Original Message -----
From: Trenton Fisher
To: Harvey
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 2:27 PM
Subject: RE: 1984 Scamp 13' ???


Hey Harvey

I cannot access information on your trailer. Our factory burned down in January 2007 and we lost all the records prior to that. I can tell you that the original axle should have had a 22.5 degree down angle when it left the factory. It should have been a 4 lug axle with no brakes as well. As for the tail lights you can order those on our internet parts store at scamptrailers.com. Look for the driver side tail light and passenger side taillight under the electrical department.

Thanks

Trent"


I'm still doubtful that the original angle on these vintage trailers was 22.5* down. The leading torsion arms on my 'original' axle were at least 10-15* UP & more likely 22.5*. There was NO flex at all in the torsion arms & it appeared that the 175/70R13 radial tires had been making contact with the underside of the wheel well (at least on severe bumps). I didn't measure it but I'd say there was less than 2" of clearance between the top of the tires & the wheel well. I suppose it is possible that the torsion arm shank (& the rubber bushings) had turned inside the axle tube but it would have had to be at least 40* to end up at the point they were, & I somehow just can't see that happening. I'm more inclined to believe they originally left the factory at maybe 10* (or even 22.5*) up angle and through the years had lost all flex in the rubber bushings, allowing the stub to 'twist' enough that there was no flex left in the suspension. I knew for sure that I wanted more 'lift' & I also wanted to add brakes so I ordered the 22.5* down angle leading arm axle & the 'high profile' side mounting brackets. When I removed the original axle I 'torched' off the old bracket sides, leaving the upper part (1/4" steel) as a place to weld the new brackets to rather than the relatively thin trailer chassis. It also aided in locating the new axle as it was a 'starting place' to square the new axle to the coupler. I also ordered the 5 on 4.5 lug pattern. The new tires/wheels (ST175/80D13) are somewhat taller (a little larger diameter) than the radials I took off but with the new axle I still have 6" clearance between the tire & wheel well. Just my opinion but I'd say the folks at Scamp are using current specs when answering questions about the vintage trailers. I understand newer trailers (since the fire) have trailing arm torsion axles & probably do indeed start with an up angle. We've had several members here mention the 'low' ride & loss of 'flex' in their older trailers. In my mind I just can't reconcile that with a 22.5* down angle leading arm axle . If the rubber 'torsion suspension' lost that much resilience & actually turned that much in the axle tube, why would it stop at that point & still provide some support instead of turning more & actually put the tire in constant contact with the wheel well??


These pix show the old axle torsion arm, both street & curb side, ground clearance with the old axle, a not very good pic of the new axle leading arm (street side) & ground clearance with the new axle -

[evanwilliams]

I think you're right, Harvey. If the rubber inside the axle was shot enough to let it rotate from 22.5* down angle to about 10* up angle (what mine looks like now) I'd think the axle would just completely fail and let the tire rest against the top of the wheel well.

I want to keep my trailer a little low so I can still get it inside the garage so I think I am going to order my axle as 10* down, which I'm hoping will make the leading arm about level when the trailer is on the ground resting on the axles and still give me a couple more inches of wheel well clearance and a softer ride.

One thing I'm not sure about is if I should go with the "high profile" brackets or if that would be too much lift over my current axle (in addition to the 10* down arm) to get my trailer into the garage. Does anyone have any experience with the hi pro brackets vs stock '80s axle mounting height?

[stevewolverton]

Hi Andrew,

Originally Posted by Andrew Gibbens

Just to hijack the thread, are you (that is, the original poster) the Steve Wolverton of Puffin fame?

Yep - it's me.

[stevewolverton]

Evan,

Originally Posted by evanwilliams

I just sent an email asking for the specs for my '84 13' axle and Kent said 22.5" down. Must have been a typo in your email from him.

My email from the beginning post in this thread came from Trent who stated it was 22.5 up. That's what caused me so much confusion.

I'm going with the Flexiride so I can just dial in the stance I want on my camper.

Thanks,
Steve

[Andrew Gibbens]

The Dexter axle data sheet available online gives all the information needed to work out what start angle will give what ride height, though you'll need to do some adding 'n' subtracting.

This is the current Dexter #9 sheet, but you might want to go via the Dexter home page to get the up-to-date version.

Look for the table shown in the attachment below as that contains all the info you need. You then need to crawl under your trailer to measure the current height from the ground to the underside of the frame rails where the axle sits - this, plus whatever rise you want, tells you what result you want from the table.

While under the trailer with a tape measure it would be good to check the 'D' dimension (centre of hub to ground) for your current wheels if you are keeping those, and use that actual dimension instead of the sample wheel/tire dimensions shown by Dexter.

[Harvey]

Originally Posted by evanwilliams

I think you're right, Harvey. If the rubber inside the axle was shot enough to let it rotate from 22.5* down angle to about 10* up angle (what mine looks like now) I'd think the axle would just completely fail and let the tire rest against the top of the wheel well.

I want to keep my trailer a little low so I can still get it inside the garage so I think I am going to order my axle as 10* down, which I'm hoping will make the leading arm about level when the trailer is on the ground resting on the axles and still give me a couple more inches of wheel well clearance and a softer ride.

One thing I'm not sure about is if I should go with the "high profile" brackets or if that would be too much lift over my current axle (in addition to the 10* down arm) to get my trailer into the garage. Does anyone have any experience with the hi pro brackets vs stock '80s axle mounting height?

Dexter's website shows the height difference between standard brackets & the high profile is 1" (for a #9 axle). On my trailer the high profile brackets added 1 1/2" (1/4" old bracket, 1" HP bracket, & 1/4" bracket thickness over the thickness of the mounting bracket on the axle) since I left the top of the original axle bracket on the chassis as a welding point rather than try to weld the new brackets to the thinner chassis tubeing that while in good shape, has 28yrs of use & road corrosion that might weaken it if welding new material to it.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by Harvey

These pix show the old axle torsion arm, both street & curb side, ground clearance with the old axle, a not very good pic of the new axle leading arm (street side) & ground clearance with the new axle -

You can tell the original start angle from those pictures. You take one line bisecting the torsion arm, the second line bisects the diamond weld going to the axle tube from front to back. The difference between them was the original start angle.

The top two look to me to be about 10 up.

[CliveAlive]

Originally Posted by stevewolverton

Hi Andrew,



Yep - it's me.

And not wanting to hijack the thread, but inquring minds wanted to know. What is a Puffin? It took some digging, but is this it?

[Harvey]

Originally Posted by CliveAlive

And not wanting to hijack the thread, but inquring minds wanted to know. What is a Puffin? It took some digging, but is this it?

That's the one! Very well known on the Teardrops and Tiny Travel Trailers forum a few years back. Haven't seen Steve on there for more'n 3yrs now. The Puffin was/is a very well done tiny travel trailer & Steve received lots of Kudos for his build. Glad to see he's still interested in camping with a tiny travel trailer even if it ain't 'homebuilt'

[evanwilliams]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gibbens

The Dexter axle data sheet available online gives all the information needed to work out what start angle will give what ride height, though you'll need to do some adding 'n' subtracting.

Well I just crawled out there with a tape measure and found the center of my hub is about 2.5" above the torsion tube of the axle, giving me a -2.5" H loaded, by using Dexter's specs and nomenclature. This puts my current axle between the 10* up (-2" loaded) and 22.5* up (-3") axles on Dexter's spec sheet. I can get my hand between the top of the tire and wheel well but it only feels like ~2" clearance, according to Dexter you should have 3" clearance from full load for "Bump Clearance" so all I really need is an extra inch of clearance to have a smooth and safe ride.

I like the way my trailer currently sits (and gets into the garage) so I think I'm going to look into getting the 0* axle, that gives -1.08" H under full load, or about 1.5" lift over my current axle (and probably a little more as my 1350# trailer will not be a full load for this 2200# axle).

So if I call Dexter Axle and use the specs (other than down angle and tire bolt pattern) given to me by Kent at Scamp I would get this:
9TF22, 4 on 4.5, idler with brake flange, high profile bracket, easy lube, 63x49 ¾, 0*.

Does this seem right if I want to use my current wheels?

Thanks for all the great info so far.
-EW.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by evanwilliams

Well I just crawled out there with a tape measure and found the center of my hub is about 2.5" above the torsion tube of the axle, giving me a -2.5" H loaded, by using Dexter's specs and nomenclature.

The Dexter specs actually say "top of bracket" which is essentially the bottom of your frame. The specs you choose will also depend on the mount height and the AP bracket kit if you choose to use one.

[evanwilliams]

Originally Posted by Roy in TO

The Dexter specs actually say "top of bracket" which is essentially the bottom of your frame. The specs you choose will also depend on the mount height and the AP bracket kit if you choose to use one.

Roy, you spot the details! Dexter does indeed say H is center of spindle to top of bracket. I'll need to crawl out there and get the correct measurements and redo my math again to be sure I get the ride height I want. Thanks for the catch.

[Roy in TO]

Thanks Evan.
It might have something to do with replacing 2 axles already. Changing to a leading arm on my boler American involved a lot of math. So much that the guy who builds trailers and was welding mine on said, you do the calculations if it does not fit or work then it is your problem.

[floyd]

Here's a couple of pictures of what I believe to be a Puffin. It is a little different from your picture but could be a variation.

[jwhitten]

Hey Steve,

First of all I'm a big fan. I found your boat resto first and then read your entire puffin thread, but I came late to the party so I was a lurker. Thought I'd join here so I can get input from you and the others. I've been in the market for a little fiberglass number to spruce up since I'm not so confident of my build from scratch skillz.

Are you gonna detail the restoration of your Scamp here to inspire the rest of us? "We're not worthy, were not worthy, we suck! I'm hoping I can follow your progress and do the DIY thing. This is my first try at anything like this. If I can find a camper to call my own.

(Also can't wait to live vicariouslly through you with all your camping/boating buddies.) LOl. How many ladies you up to now dawg?

JW

[stevewolverton]

Originally Posted by floyd

Here's a couple of pictures of what I believe to be a Puffin. It is a little different from your picture but could be a variation.

Yep. That was the 2nd version I built.

[stevewolverton]

Hello JW,

Originally Posted by jwhitten

First of all I'm a big fan. I found your boat resto first and then read your entire puffin thread, but I came late to the party so I was a lurker.

Awesome. I'm glad you liked that stuff. I've done a few boats and campers. I'm really looking forward to see what I can pull off with the Scamp - I've wanted one for many years.

Are you gonna detail the restoration of your Scamp here to inspire the rest of us? "We're not worthy, were not worthy, we suck! I'm hoping I can follow your progress and do the DIY thing. This is my first try at anything like this. If I can find a camper to call my own.

I'm going to do more than a write-up - I'm going all out on this thing. We're going to take photos and make video of the rebuild. It's also going to get the pimp treatment - wood floors, upgraded windows, AC install, Airstream blind treatment, custom counter top, custom cushions, bathroom/shower install, new axle, frame reinforced and modded, new paint, satellite tv, surround sound, etc. etc. We have the camper at J's (Jacque) parent's shop - so this is the first time I have the luxury of a shop for my project, rather then doing it under a shade tree. Should begin the build this week. We moved all my tools to the shop last weekend.

camping/boating buddies.) LOl. How many ladies you up to now dawg?

I've left that life behind. I must have done something right in a previous life because I landed a keeper. She's helping with the rebuild too. I'll try to keep -> her <- on video more than my ugly mug.

Thanks,
Steve

[jwhitten]

I've left that life behind. I must have done something right in a previous life because I landed a keeper. She's helping with the rebuild too. I'll try to keep -> her <- on video more than my ugly mug.

Dude you are my freaking idol! Holy crap! Was going to josh ya about the keeper thing, but wow. Your keeping a playmate. Guess that sayin about quality not quantity really is true. *drools* And she comes with a shop? and is helping? What does she do and does she have a sister?

I'm going to do more than a write-up - I'm going all out on this thing. We're going to take photos and make video of the rebuild.

Looks like I got connected just in time. Can't wait to see what comes next. Meanwhile I think I'll narrow my search for a Scamp. They seem to be more available than some others.

Off to search craigslist.

JW

[stevewolverton]

Hi JW,

Originally Posted by jwhitten

Your keeping a playmate. Guess that sayin about quality not quantity really is true. *drools* And she comes with a shop? and is helping? What does she do and does she have a sister?

She may or may not have been a bunny - I will neither confirm nor deny. She actually glassed the floor in my '58 Larson, so she's going to be very useful with the Scamp glass work we have planned. We're ditching all the rivets and glassing everything to the insides after we replace the floor. We're also going to clean up the outside - remove vents, ducts, water fills, etc.

Looks like I got connected just in time. Can't wait to see what comes next. Meanwhile I think I'll narrow my search for a Scamp. They seem to be more available than some others.

It appears that way. My first choice was a Burro/Uhaul, but we found the Scamp relatively close (2.5 hours) so we jumped on it.

Off to search craigslist.

Good luck on your search!

Steve

[johnvt]

I am also in need of an axle. does leading arm mean that the arm points towards the front of the pivot point / trailer and trailing arms towards the rear of the pivot point/ rear of the trailer?. All these degrees, how does one know what the camper cam with originally? I have an 84 16ft casita that I have totally torn down. I pulled the frame out from under it the paint the frame and my suspicions where confirmed. No more travel in the torsion axle. the end of the arms is above the pivot point and she towed really bouncy. I had anticipated all my repairs in this resto process except this on. Urggggg. I took my vacation to finish this but will now not reach my goal for camping in 2 weeks. Are these axles made to order or are they ready to go/ship? what can u expect to pay for one. thanks for any input.