AC in Scamp 13'/Electrical, Propane ?'s

[Tirah]

Hi Folks!

I have a few questions (probably dumb ones) I thought I'd run by you, now that I finally have my new -used '85 Scamp 13.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best way to install a standard, window air conditioner in a 13' Scamp (w/bunk option)? Is the closet the best place to put it? I saw a couple of posts about installing in the closet, but I wanted to check to make sure that's the very easiest method before I start working on it.

My Scamp's interior 120 volt outlets are both working fine when I plug my house 120 v outlet into the outside plug of the trailer, but none of the 12 v lights or a 12v fan (fan installed by the previous owner) in the interior are working. Is there a fuse related to the 12 v interior lights, or is this most likely a wiring issue?

When we turn on the refrigerator, we smell propane, but when we turn on the stove, we don't. Is this normal for a trailer that's been sitting for a long time, or is it more likely the frige is broken? We're going to replace the gas lines, and I read somewhere that you might smell more propane as the propane tank gets low, but I wondered if there could be another problem that maybe is typical.

Thanks for any advice/tips/suggestions!
Tirah

[Frederick L. Simson]

My Scamp's interior 120 volt outlets are both working fine when I plug my house 120 v outlet into the outside plug of the trailer, but none of the 12 v lights or a 12v fan (fan installed by the previous owner) in the interior are working. [b]Is there a fuse related to the 12 v interior lights, or is this most likely a wiring issue?

I seem to remember seeing a wiring diagram that shows that there are possibly 2 each 12 volt (direct current) fuses to check, One outside just off the +battery terminal & one inside, ?under the front bunk?.

[shirley munson]

I seem to remember seeing a wiring diagram that shows that there are possibly 2 fuses to check.

I don't know why anyone would AC a 13' trailer. There's nowhere to sit out a hot afternoon inside and most places cool in the evenings. Even on a hot muggy night an Endless Breeze 12v fan would be enough. Or sleep outside. Anything is better than lugging around an ugly air conditioner unless you're camping in the Congo.

[Gina D.]

Because..

In a 13 in the desert, it is like sitting in an oven. Outside is not an option sometimes. It is actually cooler INSIDE than out with ventilation and a fan. BUT.. it still doesn't quite cut it.

I went out in 104 once. I won't be doing THAT again, if I can avoid it.

[Patrick M.]

I don't know why anyone would AC a 13' trailer.

Our parrot Elvis demanded it.

[Tirah]

I don't know why anyone would AC a 13' trailer. There's nowhere to sit out a hot afternoon inside and most places cool in the evenings. Even on a hot muggy night an Endless Breeze 12v fan would be enough. Or sleep outside. Anything is better than lugging around an ugly air conditioner unless you're camping in the Congo.

There are a few reasons we want AC for our 13':

1.) If you've ever been camping with an infant and a two year-old (very loud and "spirited" ones at that), you'll know all about the screaming-child-waking-up-or otherwise-annoying-the-entire-campground thing. When it's hot outside, your campground neighbors are yelling and making a lot of noise, and you can't leave your windows open or your children will scream, an AC is quite useful. We haven't been camping since our firstborn was 9 months old, because the heat and our noisy campground neighbors made him (and us) miserable.

2.) A fan doesn't sufficiently cool you off when the temp is over 80 at night (which it frequently is where I live and typically camp). We have 100-105 degree days periodically throughout the summer, and we often travel to even warmer areas.

An AC is ugly- but then again-a porttapotty is much worse, and a lot of folks have those in their little 13's!

I feel that my 13' is actually pretty large inside. We can easily sit at our dinette and play games on a hot evening. It's larger than the screenroom we used when we tent camped.

[Paul and Libby Smith]

On your 13 foot scamp. I work in the florida sun, welding,and its mighty hot, dont mind the heat much, when iam working, sleeping at night, my thermostat is adjusted to 72 degrees, I also have a scamp WITH AC, if you go camping its nice to be cool at night,so you go to home depot. or lowes and pick up an ac for 85 to 120 dollars,There are several articles in this site you can access on the how to install an ac. wished I lived close, i would help Paul Smith Orlando Fl

[Janine & Jim]

" A fan doesn't sufficiently cool you off when the temp is over 80 at night (which it frequently is where I live and typically camp). We have 100-105 degree days periodically throughout the summer, and we often travel to even warmer areas."

We could not agree more!! It does get pretty hot in these little units. Even our 16 ft Scamp sores to a temp of 100 degrees in the hot summer sun. Infact we did install air this spring, have not had a chance to use it yet but we are looking forward to using it this summer. We installed it in the closet, yes you lose a lot of storage room, but still worth it I think. Go for it!

[John & Sandy M]

(1) Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best way to install a standard, window air conditioner in a 13' Scamp (w/bunk option)? Is the closet the best place to put it? I saw a couple of posts about installing in the closet, but I wanted to check to make sure that's the very easiest method before I start working on it.

(2) My Scamp's interior 120 volt outlets are both working fine when I plug my house 120 v outlet into the outside plug of the trailer, but none of the 12 v lights or a 12v fan (fan installed by the previous owner) in the interior are working. Is there a fuse related to the 12 v interior lights, or is this most likely a wiring issue?

(3) When we turn on the refrigerator, we smell propane, but when we turn on the stove, we don't. Is this normal for a trailer that's been sitting for a long time, or is it more likely the frige is broken? We're going to replace the gas lines, and I read somewhere that you might smell more propane as the propane tank gets low, but I wondered if there could be another problem that maybe is typical.

Thanks for any advice/tips/suggestions!
Tirah

(1) I've seen closet installations. Be sure that the condensate doesn't drain into the cabin tho! We have a factory installed roof AC and without it you end up sleeping in a puddle of sweat during the summer (85 degrees and 95% Rh is the normal during the summer around here).
(2) There are two fuses in the 12V circuit which should be checked. What is the condition of your battery? My understanding of the 12V system is that the 120 powers the 120 circuit directly. The 120V also feeds into a on-board charger for the battery and the battery powers the 12V system.
(3) Is the flame burning in the refrigerator? The thing is a dickens to see (at least in our '99 Scamp). Does the refrigerator work on AC? If it works on AC the refrigerator is probably fine and the trouble is in the propane burner system.

[Tirah]

(1) I've seen closet installations. Be sure that the condensate doesn't drain into the cabin tho! We have a factory installed roof AC and without it you end up sleeping in a puddle of sweat during the summer (85 degrees and 95% Rh is the normal during the summer around here).
(2) There are two fuses in the 12V circuit which should be checked. What is the condition of your battery? My understanding of the 12V system is that the 120 powers the 120 circuit directly. The 120V also feeds into a on-board charger for the battery and the battery powers the 12V system.
(3) Is the flame burning in the refrigerator? The thing is a dickens to see (at least in our '99 Scamp). Does the refrigerator work on AC? If it works on AC the refrigerator is probably fine and the trouble is in the propane burner system.

Thanks so much! I'm going to check everything again, now that I have some more leads. I guess I should be studying the appliance manuals a little bit more. We're definitely going to install AC in the closet with a drain in the bottom and tube that takes condensate outside the trailer.

Now if I can just figure out how to sew cushion covers easily and quickly!

[Tirah]

On your 13 foot scamp. I work in the florida sun, welding,and its mighty hot, dont mind the heat much, when iam working, sleeping at night, my thermostat is adjusted to 72 degrees, I also have a scamp WITH AC, if you go camping its nice to be cool at night,so you go to home depot. or lowes and pick up an ac for 85 to 120 dollars,There are several articles in this site you can access on the how to install an ac. wished I lived close, i would help Paul Smith Orlando Fl

Thanks! That's what I was thinking. I've seen them for dirt-cheap at Walmart and Home Depot. I don't mind the heat during the day, either, but it's hard to sleep in it at night!

[Gigi]

Hi, ya, Tirah!

For cushion covers, the best tip I saw on the forum and one that I employed, was getting a piece of plywood cut the same shape as each cushion and then stapling the fabric on. The board is always on the bottom so you wouldn't see the staples at all. My suggestion would be to cover the bottom with lining material anyway so the staples don't scratch the fiberglass. It also offers more support if your foam is older. I think 1/2 inch would be fine. I'm not so sure my upholsterer didn't use 1/4 inch and smaller staples. If you want, you could add some layers of batting, too, to get the cushions a little more plump. I use the spray adhesive and lay the bat down. It holds well.

If you wanted to spend some time later on the cushions, you could always add piping and multiple fabrics. Pillows will also add a bunch of color and pattern.

The fabric I choose was drapery fabric but mostly cotton. It's scotchgarded and really does repell spills. It's also very cool, much cooler than my old cushions.

Good luck!

[Tirah]

Hi, ya, Tirah!

For cushion covers, the best tip I saw on the forum and one that I employed, was getting a piece of plywood cut the same shape as each cushion and then stapling the fabric on. The board is always on the bottom so you wouldn't see the staples at all. My suggestion would be to cover the bottom with lining material anyway so the staples don't scratch the fiberglass. It also offers more support if your foam is older. I think 1/2 inch would be fine. I'm not so sure my upholsterer didn't use 1/4 inch and smaller staples. If you want, you could add some layers of batting, too, to get the cushions a little more plump. I use the spray adhesive and lay the bat down. It holds well.

If you wanted to spend some time later on the cushions, you could always add piping and multiple fabrics. Pillows will also add a bunch of color and pattern.

The fabric I choose was drapery fabric but mostly cotton. It's scotchgarded and really does repell spills. It's also very cool, much cooler than my old cushions.

Good luck!

Wow! That is a GREAT idea! Now why didn't I think of that? That sounds much, much easier than actually sewing everything together. Good idea on the Scotchgard, too! I was trying to think of a way to waterproof the cushions without encasing them in some ugly plastic. The plywood idea will save me from having to do the really tedious sewing. I'd rather just work on sewing trim and all that fun stuff!

Thanks for the great tips, Gigi!

[Sandra Lair]

We didn't want to give up any vauable closet space, so we installed our AC right through the back wall at floor level. We had metal supports welded onto the rear bumper to hold it steady. The spare tire was moved to the tongue. It works for us!

Sandra

[D Shubel]

We didn't want to give up any vauable closet space, so we installed our AC right through the back wall at floor level. We had metal supports welded onto the rear bumper to hold it steady. The spare tire was moved to the tongue. It works for us!

Sandra

Sandra, do you have pictures? Please?

[John & Sandy M]

Hi, ya, Tirah!

For cushion covers, the best tip I saw on the forum and one that I employed, was getting a piece of plywood cut the same shape as each cushion and then stapling the fabric on. The board is always on the bottom so you wouldn't see the staples at all.

One additional suggestion (by the way, this is the same way I did our boat cushion replacements).

Be sure to buy the stainless steel staples. Costs a bit more but you won't end up with rust stains (or the things rusting out).

[Sandra Lair]

Yes, I'll try to attach a couple of photos so you can see our "through the back wall" AC installation.
Sandra

[Frederick L. Simson]

We didn't want to give up any vauable closet space, so we installed our AC right through the back wall at floor level.

How well does that work for you? I had heard that in a larger trailer (with a king-size bed) that had a similar arrangement to yours, the owner claimed that the only part that got cool was the "tunnel" under the bed. That person wound up removing the floor mount AC and installing a roof mounted one.

Maybe yours works because your bed is smaller?

[Bob H]

Hi Folks!
Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best way to install a standard, window air conditioner in a 13' Scamp (w/bunk option)? Is the closet the best place to put it? I saw a couple of posts about installing in the closet, but I wanted to check to make sure that's the very easiest method before I start working on it.


Thanks for any advice/tips/suggestions!
Tirah

Hi Tirah,

I installed a AC in the closet and love it! Despite some who may question putting a AC in a 13', here in South Carolina it is a necessity. The humidity here is quite high and a AC is about the only way to be comfortable during the summer.

If you install a AC in the closet, please pay strict attention to three things, outside air ventilation for the AC, separating outside air from inside air, & a condensation drain.

The wheel well makes a great base of support for a window AC. And putting it inside the closet puts it right over the axle, keeping any center of gravity or tongue weight issues to a minimum.

You can install a AC in the closet in such a way that you can slide it outside the trailer to operate...placing the unit on slides so that the normally exterior part of the unit is outside, eliminating any ventilation and condensation problems, or, mounting it firmly on the wheel well and ducting the unit and providing a drain. (That's the way I installed mine.)

I purchased a 5000 BTU Fridgidare unit from Lowes, (You won't need a larger unit, and it's the BTU size that Scamp used to install in closets...I asked them.) The unit I bought was chosen for it's size, particularly it's width. At 15" it gave me approx. 1 1/2" on each side inside the closet cavity.( The closet is 18" less the thickness of the sidewall insulation.)

You must be able to provide outside air to the rear condenser coil of the AC. Normally a window AC gets air from the top and sides of the rear of the unit to be drawn in and blown thru the condenser coil. The air transfers heat out of the coolant and exhausts it outside. If you don't allow any outside air into the condenser, the unit cannot cool and you eventually burn up the unit. My unit's width gave me the room to get air around the sides and top.

Most importantly, an AC operates as a "closed loop", meaning that inside room air and outside air do not mix. Room air is drawn into the front of the unit, thru the coolant coil, and blown back into the room. Again, outside air is drawn in the top, & sides of the unit, thru the condenser coil and back outside. Two separate closed loop circuits.

I'm being really lengthy on all this for a reason...here's why. Whichever way you install your window unit... mounted on the wheel well and vented, or on sliders so that it hangs outside when it's working, you must KEEP OUTSIDE AIR OUT & INSIDE AIR IN. If you don't, your unit will not operate properly. Outside air humidity will freeze your coolant coils, the unit will be trying to cool the great outdoors, and you will never be cool enough. Also, if you have only inside air feeding both air circuits, it's a zero sum gain, the unit will only be able to cool itself, not you. I mention this because that is what the prior owner of my Scamp did when he put in his AC. It was a mess and he burned up his unit...but that's another story.

The last thing I wish to impart is this, be sure you provide a way to let condensation drain out of the trailer, or you will only be causing your plywood floor to rot. When inside air is cooled, it becomes drier since cool air cannot hold moisture as well as warm. That moisture collects inside the AC. Normally, the AC is designed to throw that moisture on the condenser coil to help cool it, but there's always excess. If you do not drain it. It's going to collect in the bottom of the closet and rot your floor.

I'm sure I have given you much more information you need, but I only wish to pass on the lessons I have learned on my Scamp. Installing a window AC in the closet is a smart way to go...if you install it smartly.

I documented my install in pictures...if you wish you can review them. I hope it helps.

Goodluck,
BobH (ConwayBob)
Follow this link:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ki4hee/album...hSo79EBea1WuTUr

To see the story of my rebuild...still a work in progress... check out:
http://conwaybob.tripod.com/scamp/index.html

[Patrick M.]

Scamp use to install them in the closet, and if I didn't have one on the roof that's exactly where I would put one.