Bigfoot 17 remodeling ?'s

[pindraak]

Hello. I am about to tear out most of the woodwork/cabinetry in my Bigfoot, except the bathroom and kitchen. I will be replacing the dinette with a couch and replacing the gaucho/bunkbed with a more elevated twin or x-long twin bed, a dog bed alcove beneath, and redesigned storage areas.

Anyway my question right now is about the post that goes from floor to ceiling that encloses the gaucho area. Does anyone know what is in there, and whether it has a structural function?

It looks to me like it could contain a stout board or steel pole that serves a stabilizing function like a stud, or it could just be cosmetic, aside from holding up the bunk/shelf, which I will remove/redo. I might need to remove/replace it to fit an x-long twin mattress in there. X-longs are supposed to be 80" long, and I'm only measuring about 77.5" at most at the height where I want the mattress.

If there is a big advantage to leaving it intact, I could leave the whole little wall-like structure alone and use a regular twin mattress (75"), but I might rather have a longer bed if possible.

Also, has anyone had any luck painting the fake wood paneling? It looks like it could be some kind of plastic that is very hard to get paint to stick to.

[Donna D.]

Gosh I'm sorry I can't help. BUT, please post pictures as you go along. Sounds like a workable layout for others

If it's plastic you want to paint, try Fusion paint.. formulated for plastics.

[pindraak]

I will get to some pictures soon. I think it will be a much better layout for a single person full time or for long trips. A dinette is okay for family dinners and so forth but not much good for reading or watching video on my laptop, whereas the Ikea couch/bed I am putting in is versatile, servings as a couch for hanging out, dog bed and decent place for a guest to sleep as it sits. I will take care of the table needs by making a lap table or two and some kind of fold-up table that all stow away.

IKEA | Sofa beds | Sofa-beds | BEDDINGE RESMO | Sofa bed

Likewise, for long term/full-time sleeping, I don't think those foam pads are going to be much fun. I am going to try to work out a deal with an Ikea slat frame and relatively thin mattress which will open up space underneath.

And, with no need for a convertible bunk above, that whole contraption seems like a lot of unnecessary weight. When I look at all the material I will remove vs what I will build, I think the trailer might lose a significant chunk of weight overall. I won't be able to weigh before and after, but if someone can give me a real weight on a stock late 80's/early 90's Bigfoot 17, I can weigh it later when finished and get an estimate. I have read that the official dry weight of 1875 lbs is way low.

re paint: I am aware of that Fusion paint, but have not heard anyone except Krylon testify that it works very well. I used it on a couple of plastic shower lining panels once. It stuck okay, but it was a major pain to do, a huge breathing hazard, a worse overspray mess, and never really looked anything like a real brushed-on paint job.

[Michael Pupeza]

I have a 1993 17CB which doesn't have a post next to the door. However, the bathroom is across from the door and may serve a similar support function.
If you look at the older floor layouts, and I think there were 3 (Gaucho, Center Bath, and Front Bath(?)), you should see if that support is really needed. I suspect that the outside molds were the same in manufacturing and that support isn't essential, unless you are in high snow load or roof storage requirements. I think a rooftop AC, like I have, would probably need the bathroom wall or the Gaucho support post! Or, drop a line to the present Bigfoot Owners and see what they recommend.
Good luck.
Mike .....>

Originally Posted by pindraak

Hello. I am about to tear out most of the woodwork/cabinetry in my Bigfoot, except the bathroom and kitchen. I will be replacing the dinette with a couch and replacing the gaucho/bunkbed with a more elevated twin or x-long twin bed, a dog bed alcove beneath, and redesigned storage areas.

Anyway my question right now is about the post that goes from floor to ceiling that encloses the gaucho area. Does anyone know what is in there, and whether it has a structural function?

It looks to me like it could contain a stout board or steel pole that serves a stabilizing function like a stud, or it could just be cosmetic, aside from holding up the bunk/shelf, which I will remove/redo. I might need to remove/replace it to fit an x-long twin mattress in there. X-longs are supposed to be 80" long, and I'm only measuring about 77.5" at most at the height where I want the mattress.

If there is a big advantage to leaving it intact, I could leave the whole little wall-like structure alone and use a regular twin mattress (75"), but I might rather have a longer bed if possible.

Also, has anyone had any luck painting the fake wood paneling? It looks like it could be some kind of plastic that is very hard to get paint to stick to.

[Donna D.]

Ken, lots of folks here have used Fusion paint on plastics used on the exterior... like vents, etc. to protect from UVs. But you're right, those are small pieces and can be sprayed outside.

[pindraak]

Donna:

I have to admit that my one experience with the Krylon was successful. I may have successfully used it to spray paint a boom box too, I can't remember what I used. I imagine the complaining is because there are so many different types of plastic and it probably doesn't work very well on some, especially less solid and more flexible plastics. I'll consider using it on vents and so forth.

MP:

I wonder how it is attached well enough, top and bottom, to be structural. If I can figure out how, then I might be able to replace it with something as minimal as a steel tube, if I decide to remove it. I think it might be worth some trouble to fit an x-long in there. I wonder whether those few inches of entryway cabinet are that useful anyway.

Here is a draft of the intended layout, assuming the post structure stays as is, with a standard twin mattress:

[Tom Trostel]

Ken,
I have no idea of the interior structure of the wall, but here is a link to a photo of it. What year is your Bigfoot?

1980 Bigfoot :: rear gaucho bed & bunk picture by tomNjo - Photobucket

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by pindraak

I won't be able to weigh before and after, but if someone can give me a real weight on a stock late 80's/early 90's Bigfoot 17, I can weigh it later when finished and get an estimate. I have read that the official dry weight of 1875 lbs is way low.

I only weighed one 17' Bigfoot during my rally weigh-ins but IIRC it was the same floor-plan as yours:
LENGTH__MAKE_____MODEL______AXLE___TONGUE__TOTAL
17.5' _____Bigfoot__________________4040_____360______44 00

This would be a fully-loaded as-towed-down-the-road weight.

[Gina D.]

LOL! Let me know when you are done. I lust after a BF 17 side gaucho and have intent to do with it almost exactly as you are, for exactly the same reasons.

[pindraak]

My Bigfoot is a 1988. The weigh stat above says "17.5" feet, which I gather weren't made until 2005, so there could be a difference. I found mention that the dry weight of the 2004 is listed at 2610 pounds, which is over 700 more than the equivalent official listing for mine. If my trailer were loaded that heavily, it would exceed the axle rating by 500 pounds.

I guess I'll never know the "before" weight, as it is not worth the trouble to me to haul it somewhere and weigh it right now just for curiosity. I am going to try to keep things as light as possible, using my capped truck bed for most of my storage needs, minimal camp-type kitchen gear, etc... I plan to apply the same philosophy I used for international travel in limiting luggage to one carry-on bag. The only heavy things I plan on adding are an air conditioner and extra batteries.

[Tom Trostel]

Our 1980 15B17G weighed 2290 lbs. at a CAT scales when we first got it. That number does not include the tongue weight. This was without any camping gear, water, battery or air conditioner; but with propane. I assume our dry weight is 2400-2500 lbs. with new AC and battery. Our early model lacks a hot water heater, shower, and gray water tank and has a very small frig. As the newer 17' models were filled with more features the weight went up.

[pindraak]

I gutted out all the wood from the gaucho area today. The little wall is just a 1x6 board and 1/4 inch plywood across the front. I doubt it provides much support, but it could.

Raising up the bed enough to make it a loft with a dog bed underneath doesn't look like it will work. The wheel well/housing takes up too much of the floor space by the door, and raising up the bed high enough would result in the mattress intersecting the windows. This would make them useless as there would be no way to operate shades/curtains properly and/or the sun would be right there in my face while sleeping. The only option would be to black them out permanently, which I don't like for a number of reasons.

That top bunk thing was really heavy, and the whole lower slider + closet area contained what I consider a lot of unnecessary wood and hardware, so the trailer probably will lose some weight. I think I will put in a lighter shelf above, just for clothes and coats, maybe even a sort of wire basket of some kind.

If I leave the gaucho wall intact, the bed space is 75" long - just right for a standard twin. If I want to put in an x-long twin, I'll have to remove the wall, and it will come out to even with the door, so no wall at all. It could still be doable. For structural support, I could install a pole right at the corner of the bed, which would be stronger than a 1x6 and closer to the middle anyway.

[Matt in SV]

Originally Posted by pindraak

I guess I'll never know the "before" weight, as it is not worth the trouble to me to haul it somewhere and weigh it right now just for curiosity.

Maybe you could weigh the stuff you take out of it to get a rough difference?

Regards

Matt

[Daryl R]

I think there a couple advantages to leaving the little wall in place. One roof support, and two keeps the trailer a bit more rigid around the door (stops the wall from sagging out). As for painting I sanded the plastic film off the paneling, not hard but very dusty. I didn't have much choice in the matter but I would of rather had not to do it. I really don't want painted walls.

[BobB]

Ken,

I would not remove anything that appears to hold up the roof. This is particularly important if you plan to add a roof air conditioner. Many (all?) of the early gaucho models had a smaller refrigerator than the center bath models and were a little lighter. Bigfoot 17 footers that were made before 2000 were substantially lighter than subsequent models with more options and more luxury. Advertised dry weights are unreliable, so it is important to weigh your trailer.

[pindraak]

OK. I have now removed all the dinette wood as well. Unfortunately, there was a bit of water damage around the bottom edges, some still wet. It appears water has been leaking through the floor level storage hatch by the door... Bigfoot 17 owners beware! Luckily the floor still seems solid. It appears small amounts leaked in over time and were sponged up by the dinette wood as opposed to leaking down into the subfloor. Also luckily, the prior owners kept it under a car port for most of the last 14 years.

It has also damaged the wood where the base of the door attaches. The door itself sags in/near the closed position and has to be lifted into place to shut, and looks pretty bad cosmetically. Since I'll have to take it off anyway to reconstruct the rotted wood, I am going to look into replacing it altogether.

As to the structural function of the wall, attached is my design drawing. I think I can make the depicted structure out of three lengths of thin-walled steel tube, something like bicycle tubes, then use screw-on flanges to attach it at the five attachment points. The result should be lighter and stronger than the existing wall, and the bottom cross tube will keep the mattress from sliding out.

[Daryl R]

I'm not sure how much lighter it will be or stronger, the top flange is only going to be attached to 1/8" ply you might catch the 1" x 3" under the ply but I think you will miss it.

The original wall should have attachment to the trailer side, do you have triangulation to prevent racking with the suggested structure?

I wish I could explain myself a bit better

Daryl

[pindraak]

How is the 1x3 arranged on the roof? If it is transverse, like ribs, the new attachment could be aligned automatically. If they run lengthwise, I might have to regroup. Even then, if I could find the studs, I could attach a square of thick plywood, as a plate, to distribute it to the studs.

As for triangulation in the middle part, I was thinking about adding a rod or smaller tube or something right up near the wall, to complete the rectangle.

[Daryl R]

The 1x3 is right where the wall is presently screwed into the ceiling it is taped flush into the foam and the 1/8" ceiling is glued to the wood/foam. It is a backing block so works well with the little wall not so good with the point application.

These trailers were pretty well thought out, but designed thirty years ago with the best materials they had at the time. As far as I can tell everything had two purposes, both function and structure. The cabinets, walls and beds all made the trailer a unit.

If you really need the room have you thought about building a thinner wall. I believe mine was made of 1x4 with 1/8" skin(ply) glued, light and strong. maybe you could use 2x2 not as strong front to back but just as strong side to side. I work with both metal and wood I think the weight difference would be minimal. If the wood wall was made like the original.

Really think things through as you take something out, as what ever you replace it with has to be just as strong, most of the structure is minimal so you can't really go less. Every piece has a reason and it is not really apparent. The bed frame on the gaucho is solidly attached to 4 walls made more rigid but the cabinet fronts under it. It is all light material, but makes the trailer light and strong, it is a structural member.

[pindraak]

I could see what you mean about the structure when I was taking things out. It looked flimsy, but was strong due to the geometry. What I'm putting back in should be just as good or better, I think. It will be simpler overall but made of stronger materials with bigger triangulation areas - I will probably use 2x2, birch thin-layer plywood and maybe a few L brackets. They used what appeared to be 1x1 and 1/8 inch Lauann and much more elaborate structures to make convertible beds. The couch in the front may be better than the dinette - smaller box side-wise, but going all the way across, and the boxes made by my new bedframe and closet are likewise bigger and simpler. That bunk shelf was made out much heavier material than needed for clothing storage or boxing that space.

Making a new thinner wall out of wood would be easier than fabricating what I have drawn out of steel and fastening it. However, I think it might need to be a mere inch thick to accommodate an x-long twin. I was thinking it could squeeze up against a tube better than a wall, so the tube could be thicker. I was hoping to have the end of the bed open, in addition to being longer, as in my picture. A mere 75" bed with a wall on either end could be a bit of a drag, as I am about 71" tall standing.

If I ran a 1x4 across the ceiling and attached the steel structure to that, and closed up the middle near the wall with a rod or tube, I think that would take care of the point stress and triangulation problems and it would be just as strong as the wall. It is tempting not to go to all that trouble and leave the wall, but I'm not sure about such a short bed for long periods. Maybe I'll make something to put at the foot of my bed at home to simulate it so I can see whether it is ok.