brakes

[Finner]

Hi Glenn,

It would be really great to get together and have a beer sometime. It might just be me but I feel like we would have a really great time together.

Oh sorry not beer, as you have kindly pointed out I need to be more succinct as not to confuse. Rather we should get together for a fermented alcoholic beverage, I personally prefer that of the malted barley variety.

As for trailers with just breakaway brake systems I have personally owned two and seen many others.

[Glenn Baglo]

Beer it is.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Finner

Hi Morgyn in my opinion putting electric brakes on a boler is overkill by a long ways. I have pulled many trailers without electric brakes (motorcycle/skidoo/utility/travel) and then a lot with brakes. Bolers run roughly around 1,000 lbs dry weight this is just the trailer (none of your contents added or propane, water, grey water in it.). Bolers are light and the reason they don't have brakes factory installed is they are light. Heavy trailers (generally around 2000lbs are what come with electric brakes. I suspect you picked a light trailer for a reason and do not plan to overload it with a bunch of heavy camping gear.

If you are heavy footed and plan to drive with the trailer attached the same way you drive without the trailer than maybe you would need electric brakes. If however you plan to take it a little easier when pulling the trailer and give a little more room between yourself and the person in front of you then you will definitely not need electric brakes. I have a 2300lb bigfoot with electric brakes but on one occasion had to pull it with the brakes off. It was easy breezy and no problem or worry at all, and that is with a trailer that weighs more than twice your boler.

Now a breakaway brake is something all together different and something I would choose to have but not necessary. Not sure it that helps but it is my take on it.

Hummm.... have you ever put a loaded 13' Boler on the scales Finner?

Its a rare for a fully loaded for camping 13' boler to weigh in under 1500lbs. I know of one that actually weighed in for camping at 2300lbs. Yup for real!

Another fact of life today is that many vehicle manufactures stipulate that if pulling a trailer over 1000lbs it needs to have brakes. Particularly true of small SUV's and smaller tow vehicles.

Pulling a trailer without brakes is a good way to wear down your vehicles brakes faster than through normal wear and tear. Vehicle brakes are not cheap to replace and after a 10 years of pulling a trailer without brakes its a good bet you could have paid for the installation off brakes on the trailer a couple of times over once you tally up the cost of replacing brakes on your vehicle.

Many provinces and states including the one you live in do have laws that require trailers over x so many pounds to have brakes.

As you are in Alberta and seem be totally unaware of the laws of your province. Here are the facts:

Trailer Brake Requirements Alberta:

"-If gross laden weight of trailer is 909 kg / 2,004 Ibs or over, or if gross trailer weight is over half that of the unit, independent braking system is required.
"

Are you willing to pay the OP's legal cost should he choose to follow your advise and not bother to put brakes on his trailer and has an accident that it is determine was caused by his vehicles inability to stop the vehicle due to the weight of the trailer and it not having brakes?

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Finner

When worry of sway money is far better spent on a stabilizer hitch than trailer brakes when towing such a light trailer. The stabilizer hitch will not only even the weight distribution across your vehicle and trailer saving a lot on tire wear but makes overall handling a lot better and braking a lot stronger. When hitting your brakes hard without a stabilizer a trailer will push down a lot harder on the hitch which in turn lifts the front of the tow vehicle and limits braking power.
.

Honestly can say I have camped with over 30 13' Bolers at one time on a number of occasions in the past 10 years ;-) and can say I have never ever seen anyone put a Weight Distribution hitch on their vehicle to pull one! Have seen a lot of interesting tow vehicle chooses along with all those Boler's as well. I suspect that most Boler owners I know would suggest that something is VERY wrong with either the stowage of the trailer, or the hitch setup or the tow vehicle if one requires a WDH on any 13' trailer.

Money can be further saved by forgetting all about the purchase of a WDH for a 13' Boler and instead spending time learning how to set up the trailer correctly and spending a small sum at the local dump to put the trailer on the scales to find out its actual loaded weight. In doing so its then a simple a matter of insuring the trailer is loaded with no heavy weights at the extreme ends and hooked up level and that at least 10 percent of the axle weight is on the tongue.

[Finner]

Hi Carol,

Not sure why you would say I am unaware unless you responded without reading the thread. I mention very clearly in a later post that Alberta has the strictest laws that I am aware of in Canada by requiring brakes if trailers are over 2,000lbs.

Now for those with a 13' boler if they require carrying more than 700-800 in extras above the trailer then they are simply using a trailer to small for their needs. Running a 13' boler at a total weight of 2,000 creates a lot more problems than simply having trailer brakes will remedy.

Not exactly sure why you are hammering me while all I am doing is stating what runs well below laws and requirements set out by the RVDA.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by morgynm

Can controllers be moved to different vehicles? In the next two or three years, my beloved Vibe will need to eventually be replaced. Would I be able to move the controller to, say, an Outback?

A brake controller can be unplugged and moved to another vehicle but be warned many smaller tow vehicles do not come pre wired from the factor for a brake controller (usually only a 4 pin for trailer lights) and like your current vehicle they will require you to run wiring for the controller and charge line.

The Outback for sure would require both the controller wire and charge line to be added and Subaru does require brakes on any trailer being towed that weighs more than 1000lbs and has a limit of only 200lbs on the tongue.

[Finner]

Carol the WDH does a fantastic job of evening the weight across the entire rig and even the weight out so that less is on the back wheels of the tow vehicle. If the trailer is large or small they help a ton. With a small trailer typically a smaller tow vehicle is used which will have a much lighter rear suspension than a larger vehicle. An appropriately sized WDH makes a huge difference to any unit. I have a good friend in Calgary that has a boler that he pulls with a 1980 VW diesel rabbit. When he added a small stabilizer hitch and said it made a huge difference. There must be some on here using a weight distribution hitch on a small trailer that can back me up.

[Finner]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Beer it is.

I work in Van quite a bit as I am a CSC DOP. If you are who I think you are we would likely have a lot in common. It saddened me as I had to move away from celluloid due to budgets but digital has made some really big leaps the last few years.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Finner

Carol the WDH does a fantastic job of evening the weight across the entire rig and even the weight out so that less is on the back wheels of the tow vehicle. If the trailer is large or small they help a ton. With a small trailer typically a smaller tow vehicle is used which will have a much lighter rear suspension than a larger vehicle. An appropriately sized WDH makes a huge difference to any unit. I have a good friend in Calgary that has a boler that he pulls with a 1980 VW diesel rabbit. When he added a small stabilizer hitch and said it made a huge difference. There must be some on here using a weight distribution hitch on a small trailer that can back me up.

I am very familiar with what a WDH hitch does..... have used them in the past and currently on a MUCH heavier trailer.

A WDH is used to transfer the weight of the hitch off the rear of the vehicle to the front axle of the vehicle as well as back to the axle of the trailer. Why anyone would/should feel they need to use one on a trailer with only a 200lb tongue weight begs one to seriously question the reasons why. I suspect most would suggest the likely reason for it would be due to the use of a highly ill matched tow vehicle.

I do not think that there are many if any WDH options available with bars that are light enough for me to feel comfortable using on a trailer with only a 200lb or lighter tongue weight on a 30 year old riveted figerglass trailer with an equally as old frame. Would be scared to transfer any weight back onto a 30 plus year old axle that is probable already under rated and overloaded. Would be scared of the all to real reality of it popping rivets out of the trailer and snapping the old frame or hitch receiver in half (assuming it has not been properly reinforced for the use of a WDH) on the first bumpy/rutted road I took it down due to the added stiffness and stress created by the WDH bars.

Your friend BTW with the 1980 Rabbit pulling the Boler appears to be as equally familiar with the ramifications of towing chooses made as yourself. He would be well advised to discuss his set up with Andy Thompson of Can-Am (if he has not already) in regards to the issues with putting over rated WDH only on his VW. Andy is well respected in regards to ALL that needs to be added and changed to set up a unconventional tow vehicles.

A good read is On The Topic of Equalizer Hitches

[Finner]

Wow it sounds like you have had some very substandard road hazards as trailers. I sure hope for the safety of everyone on the road you no longer run a trailer with such weak frame and axles that they can not handle a appropriately sized WDH as the weight it will transfer is very small compared to what the trailer is built to handle. That is if the trailer is still safe which it sounds like yours were not.

On the discussion of my friend Greg (rabbit/boler combo) and his set up he is a structural engineer that is the most anal person I know. He spins wrenches as a hobby and rebuilt both his rabbit and boler from the ground up fabricating a whole new frame for the boler and making modifications to the rabbit to beef it up. From what you mention about the weak structure of the trailers you would choose to use I suggest you worry about yourself and not what others are doing.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Finner

Hi Carol,

Not sure why you would say I am unaware unless you responded without reading the thread. I mention very clearly in a later post that Alberta has the strictest laws that I am aware of in Canada by requiring brakes if trailers are over 2,000lbs.

Not exactly sure why you are hammering me while all I am doing is stating what runs well below laws and requirements set out by the RVDA.

I have read the whole thread and did indeed see that you did acknowledge Alberta requires brakes on trailers of 2000lbs - BUT not that Alberta also requires brakes on the trailer if it weighs more than 50% of the weight of the vehicle pulling it and NOT until the regulations where pointed out to you by another member long after you made the recommendation to the OP they forget about getting brakes on their trailer and acknowledged having run your own trailer that weighs over 2000lbs without brakes without a problem!

A recommendation that gave little consideration to what the OP's trailer may ACTUALLY weigh loaded, or the weight of his vehicle or what the laws of their province &/or state might be, important facts to know!

You also in your original recommendation choose to over look the fact that some provinces do require a brake away system on any trailer of 2000lbs or more and its a good bet once loaded the OP's trailer will weigh close to if not over 2000lbs. Like others here I am not aware of any such system that does not involve the trailer having its own brakes. Some provinces also BTW require a brake away system on ANY trailer that is equipped with brakes. Best to read the full and actual requirements from your own provinces website and not count on condensed version of the towing brake regulations on sites such a RIVA or AAA which frequently contain errors & omissions.

I am aware of many much lighter trailers having a brake away systems but that is due to the fact that in some provinces any commercially used trailer is required by law to have them. You say there is a emergancy brake away system that is available that is for emergency use only. Like others I am wondering how that works if the trailer does not have brakes. Perhaps you could take the time to educate us all and provide a link to information on how such a system works without the trailer having its own brakes. Enquiring minds want to know.

Not hammering you, just wanting the OP who is new to towing to be giving factual, sound and safe advise.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Finner

Carol the WDH does a fantastic job of evening the weight across the entire rig and even the weight out so that less is on the back wheels of the tow vehicle. If the trailer is large or small they help a ton. With a small trailer typically a smaller tow vehicle is used which will have a much lighter rear suspension than a larger vehicle. An appropriately sized WDH makes a huge difference to any unit. I have a good friend in Calgary that has a boler that he pulls with a 1980 VW diesel rabbit. When he added a small stabilizer hitch and said it made a huge difference. There must be some on here using a weight distribution hitch on a small trailer that can back me up.

I totally understand the use of a WDH with a larger TT. I use one on a larger sticky but on a 13'er, no way. Using a small tug, close or over it's tow ratings with what I see as a bandage, makes no sense to me. I too would be interested to know how many folks tow a 13'er with a WDH and what tug they use. Wonder if they used a WDH on the Toyo to pull the space shuttle .

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Finner

Wow it sounds like you have had some very substandard road hazards as trailers. I sure hope for the safety of everyone on the road you no longer run a trailer with such weak frame and axles that they can not handle a appropriately sized WDH as the weight it will transfer is very small compared to what the trailer is built to handle. That is if the trailer is still safe which it sounds like yours were not.

Once again as you know nothing of the age, makes, size or condition of my previous or current trailer or the condition of the OP's trailer for that matter, I think perhaps you need to just stick to the known facts when making recommendations!

[Roy in TO]

I'm a little confused over the use of a stabilizer hitch and WDH being used interchangeably. Although there are some units that combine both, IMO they are separate entities.

Weight Distribution / Sway Control | Product Categories | Husky Towing

Where weight distribution addresses up and down concerns, sway control promotes stability by slowing side to side movement often caused by windy conditions & passing vehicles

For me, my Ranger stops better towing the boler or Trillium with brakes than it does on its own. Although I like to think that I'm a safe driver giving extra room while towing etc. ... there has been more than one situation an evasive manouver has resulted in trailer sway (tail wagging the dog). Having the ability to correct that with the manual control has helped in regaining control.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by morgynm

...Can controllers be moved to different vehicles? In the next two or three years, my beloved Vibe will need to eventually be replaced. Would I be able to move the controller to, say, an Outback?

The controller can, but you'll have to start over with the brake line, which is likely a good part of the labor for this install.

That very issue influenced our decision to trade in our much loved and reliable Toyota Sienna van a little earlier than planned. It was close enough to the end of its lifespan that the cost of needed towing upgrades (transmission cooler, 4-pin to 7-pin wiring, and Class I to Class III receiver) just didn't make sense. We purchased a Pilot, which came standard with everything we needed, including the brake wiring.

[Keaner]

Morgynm, I'm still confused on exactly what you're getting for your money.
I'm familiar with vehicle wiring and braking systems and something here doesn't seem right.
Prior to committing, ask the mechanic for a written quote listing part numbers and post here... we'll be able to help you better.

[stevebaz]

I use a Prodigy RF controller on my Scamp 13. I personally have a choice of 4 different tugs to tow my trailer. I can also loan my trailer to my sister and brother without the need of hooking up a controller to each one.

The control unit plugs into a cigarette lighter. Each car has to have a 7 pin receptacle with brake, turn and marker lights and a power wire and ground but no controller or blue electric brake wire. Battery charge wires are up to you if you want to include them.

The actual brake control box mounts to the tongue of the trailer and stays with the trailer. The 7 pin cord on the trailer plugs into the control box mounted on the tongue. The cord from the control box plugs into your car or truck, whatever your choice of tug.

No issues with trying to find a place to mount a controller in the car let alone several of them. Get a new car have a 7 pin receptacle installed and plug in the RF controller and you're off and running.

This has worked very well for me for the last 4 years or so. It is an expensive option.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by stevebaz

I use a Prodigy RF controller on my Scamp 13. I personally have a choice of 4 different tugs to tow my trailer. I can also loan my trailer to my sister and brother without the need of hooking up a controller to each one.


No issues with trying to find a place to mount a controller in the car let alone several of them. Get a new car have a 7 pin receptacle installed and plug in the RF controller and you're off and running.

This has worked very well for me for the last 4 years or so. It is an expensive option.

Sure sounds like a good option for someone such as the OP who does not tow with a vehicle that has a brake controller wiring from the factory and may be considering a new vehicle that also does not.

Currently E-trailer has the Prodigy RF on sale for US$308.95 (C$391.00).

That's a little more than half of the total cost the OP has been quoted to set his current car up with a wired brake controller BUT in the long run it may save him the cost of having a brake controller line added to any future vehicles he buys.

I know that the cost of having a brake controller line only(charge lines, 7 pin harness etc was all extra) to my Subaru Outback cost me about C$200 several years ago. Suspect the cost (labour time) of adding the line will vary from car to car depending on the difficulty of getting the line through the firewall.

The OP would still need to have the vehicles factory 4 pin upgraded to a 7 pin but thats usually not an overly expensive part of the wiring job... in fact lots of people have been known to be able to do that themselves after purchasing the harness from E-trailer.

[morgynm]

Originally Posted by Keaner

Morgynm, I'm still confused on exactly what you're getting for your money.

I'm familiar with vehicle wiring and braking systems and something here doesn't seem right.

Prior to committing, ask the mechanic for a written quote listing part numbers and post here... we'll be able to help you better.

The bulk of the cost is the labour. It's $125/hour at the RV place. They're also getting rid of the odd looking capped gooseneck propane pipe for me that the previous owners left when they took out the heater. I've been wanting it out for two years now! I could do it myself but I'm not taking a chance with propane pipes. So there's an additional odd job they're doing that goes into the initial cost.


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

[Keaner]

Originally Posted by morgynm

The bulk of the cost is the labour. It's $125/hour at the RV place. They're also getting rid of the odd looking capped gooseneck propane pipe for me that the previous owners left when they took out the heater. I've been wanting it out for two years now! I could do it myself but I'm not taking a chance with propane pipes. So there's an additional odd job they're doing that goes into the initial cost.


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

RV shops are known to be expensive..maybe a 2nd opinion?