Deep Cycle Battery

[stude]

Originally Posted by Franswa

LOL....have to laugh at this discussion....have a look at where I live !!!!!
and then I bought my two GCs at........... COSTCO....4 miles away !!!!

BTW if I had two battery failures in the same year I'd be looking for a cause....heck, I did that at my first failure....and that's when I ditched the converter...happy motoring

: ifyou can read that map u sent then u got better eyes than me.
We replaced the Start battery as the guy we bought it from installed the cheapest battery he could put in the MH when he picked it up from the Auction House lot in CA.
The Deep cell batteries were the same for the House cheap but we eaked out 4 1/2 years which is pretty good. We installed Batteries from Canuck tire as they are all across Canada and the warranty was good but probably not as good as Costco, I like buying my tires at Costco but they do not sell MH tires so I buy them elsewhere and we got a real good deal on 6 Michelin summer 19.5 tires, not many would of gotten what we paid 4 years ago.
We still have about 4 more years left on them till we replace them.
Hoping we sell the house first them buy that 2018 Winnebago Vista 29E we like.
Stude

[Franswa]

just click on the pictures and they open full size.....man!...you been missing A LOT.....LOL

and Byron .... Because there is 4 more connections at the batteries there's 4 more fail points from corrosion. (????)

I didn't know that batteries failed because of corrosion at the terminals....I dunno...I keep mine clean......

and if you look at the pic...(don't forget to click on it Stude) there is only TWO more connections....to "worry" about

[stude]

Originally Posted by Franswa

just click on the pictures and they open full size.....man!...you been missing A LOT.....LOL

and Byron .... Because there is 4 more connections at the batteries there's 4 more fail points from corrosion. (????)

I didn't know that batteries failed because of corrosion at the terminals....I dunno...I keep mine clean......

and if you look at the pic...(don't forget to click on it Stude) there is only TWO more connections....to "worry" about

:Stude.

[stude]

Originally Posted by stude

: ifyou can read that map u sent then u got better eyes than me.
We replaced the Start battery as the guy we bought it from installed the cheapest battery he could put in the MH when he picked it up from the Auction House lot in CA.
The Deep cell batteries were the same for the House cheap but we eaked out 4 1/2 years which is pretty good. We installed Batteries from Canuck tire as they are all across Canada and the warranty was good but probably not as good as Costco, I like buying my tires at Costco but they do not sell MH tires so I buy them elsewhere and we got a real good deal on 6 Michelin summer 19.5 tires, not many would of gotten what we paid 4 years ago.
We still have about 4 more years left on them till we replace them.
Hoping we sell the house first them buy that 2018 Winnebago Vista 29E we like.
Stude

: did not show me the Costco but did show me Canuck Tire and Walmart.
I have 2 of those Costco stores both within 8 miles of our place one even closer and Like I have always said I'se not good on a computer but I can type around 50 words a minute and when really feeling not bad 60-80 words a minute, how about u!

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

There's a trade off using 6 volt batteries. One the surface is sounds pretty good. However, I see some problems. The cost is higher than that of a single battery. The weight of the two batteries is 124lbs vs 48lbs for a single battery. Because there is 4 more connections at the batteries there's 4 more fail points from corrosion. Check your needs before you determine the the extra amp hours is worth it.

Actually there are fewer connections with two 6v bats in series than with two 12v bats in parallel. One jumper between the + on one and the - on the other, plus the two leads going to the house from the other two terminals. Very simple. Parallel 12 v bats require 4 wires.

Most lead acid batteries are a mystery as to their quality. But one fairly good method of deciding on a brand is to weigh them. Heavier is better. Never buy a lead acid battery because it's lighter than another brand. Some manufacturer's make very thin or porous plates that won't last long or won't produce much power. Many battery manufacturers start out with very nice batteries to build their reputation and then cheapen them over time. Finally, what was good becomes lousy. Excide, Die-hard, Delco and Motorcraft batteries are prime examples of this. Interstate may going away too.

Deep cycle batteries will always have less amp-hours than starting batteries for a given case size because they leave space in the bottom below the plates to accumulate the old lead or products from becoming sulfated. Batteries die when this material builds up and shorts out the plates. So deep cycle batteries can take abuse longer.

[stude]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Actually there are fewer connections with two 6v bats in series than with two 12v bats in parallel. One jumper between the + on one and the - on the other, plus the two leads going to the house from the other two terminals. Very simple. Parallel 12 v bats require 4 wires.

Most lead acid batteries are a mystery as to their quality. But one fairly good method of deciding on a brand is to weigh them. Heavier is better. Never buy a lead acid battery because it's lighter than another brand. Some manufacturer's make very thin or porous plates that won't last long or won't produce much power. Many battery manufacturers start out with very nice batteries to build their reputation and then cheapen them over time. Finally, what was good becomes lousy. Excide, Die-hard, Delco and Motorcraft batteries are prime examples of this. Interstate may going away too.

Deep cycle batteries will always have less amp-hours than starting batteries for a given case size because they leave space in the bottom below the plates to accumulate the old lead or products from becoming sulfated. Batteries die when this material builds up and shorts out the plates. So deep cycle batteries can take abuse longer.

:to stop sulfate take a rattle can of any paint and paint the terminals once you have them all hooked into your wiring diagram for the road this is the last thing u do and u will never have sulfate problems again.
Stude

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by stude

:to stop sulfate take a rattle can of any paint and paint the terminals once you have them all hooked into your wiring diagram for the road this is the last thing u do and u will never have sulfate problems again.
Stude

I was referring to the sulfation that occurs inside, on the battery plates.

Painting the connections only helps on top of the connector, but not on the bottom of them next to the battery and that is where the moisture source is.

Another thing I've never tried would be to put the product Noalox on the terminal before the connector is put on. It's used in electrical panels all the time to prevent corrosion.

Another corrosion problem is where the wire enters the connector or where the wire enters the insulating jacket. It can fail there and still look fine.

[Darwin Maring]

They sell a red and green felt washers (together in a package) at auto parts, Walmart and tractor supply stores and you put them on the battery terminals to prevent the white powder buildup.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Darwin Maring

They sell a red and green felt washers (together in a package) at auto parts, Walmart and tractor supply stores and you put them on the battery terminals to prevent the white powder buildup.

Those washers really help. I've used them in the past. I think they have some kind of grease on them.

[The Minimalist]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Deep cycle batteries will always have less amp-hours than starting batteries for a given case size because they leave space in the bottom below the plates to accumulate the old lead or products from becoming sulfated. Batteries die when this material builds up and shorts out the plates. So deep cycle batteries can take abuse longer.

Actually, deep cycle batteries, for a given group size, have more amp hours and less cranking amps. The reverse is true of starting batteries.

Deep cycle and starting batteries are designed for different purposes. The deep cycle battery is designed to provide electrical current at relatively low amperage over a long period of time before recharging and to stand up to frequent charging cycles. Starting batteries are designed to provide the large instantaneous amperage required to turn over an engine

Without getting into all the chemistry, the difference basically boils down to surface area and plate thickness.

The more electrolyte that is in contact with the plates, be more amperage the battery can produce. Conversely the less electrolyte in contact with the plates the less amperage produced.

Thicker plates are necessary to provide the high cycling(charging cycles) capacity required in deep cycle usage. Thicker plates means fewer plates in a given BCI group size, therefore the battery will produce less cranking amps, but can provide current over a longer period of time(amp hours), as electrolyte is depleted slowly.

Starting requires instantaneous amperage, and that requires more surface area. Consequently, the plates need to be thinner to provide the surface area needed in a given group size to provide this higher amperage. Electrolyte is depleted rapidly in during this high current production. As a result, the battery will need to be charged sooner.

Sulfation is an internal chemical process, not to be confused with terminal corrosion.

All batteries, as they discharge, produce lead sulfate. The process actually begins as soon as the battery is taken off of the charger. However, the lead sulfate crystals produced during discharge are very small and are converted back to lead during the charging cycle.

In common usage sulfation refers to lead sulfate forming large crystals which cannot be readily converted back to lead by charging, and usually means the battery will have to be replaced. This type of sulfation takes place when a battery is left in a low state of charge for a long period of time.

All batteries have space in the bottom to accommodate the normal products of the charge\discharge cycles which accumulate over time.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by The Minimalist

Sulfation is an internal chemical process, not to be confused with terminal corrosion.

All batteries, as they discharge, produce lead sulfate. The process actually begins as soon as the battery is taken off of the charger. However, the lead sulfate crystals produced during discharge are very small and are converted back to lead during the charging cycle.

In common usage sulfation refers to lead sulfate forming large crystals which cannot be readily converted back to lead by charging, and usually means the battery will have to be replaced. This type of sulfation takes place when a battery is left in a low state of charge for a long period of time.

All batteries have space in the bottom to accommodate the normal products of the charge\discharge cycles which accumulate over time.

That's right, battery corrosion is not sulfation of the plates and not related to internal battery health.

All batteries have space for the waste materials to build up. A good deep cycle battery has more than a starting battery to increase the time the battery can last before it shorts out. Hence, volume is used that produces no power.

Here is a good description of the process from Battery University:

"What is sulfation? During use, small sulfate crystals form, but these are normal and are not harmful. During prolonged charge deprivation, however, the amorphous lead sulfate converts to a stable crystalline and deposits on the negative plates. This leads to the development of large crystals that reduce the battery’s active material, which is responsible for the performance. There are two types of sulfation: reversible (or soft sulfation), and permanent (or hard sulfation). If a battery is serviced early, reversible sulfation can often be corrected by applying an overcharge to an already fully charged battery in the form of a regulated current of about 200mA. The battery terminal voltage is allowed to rise to between 2.50 and 2.66V/cell (15 and 16V on a 12V mono block) for about 24 hours. Increasing the battery temperature to 50–60°C (122–140°F) during the corrective service further helps in dissolving the crystals."

The bottom line is that lead acid batteries should never be allowed to sit in a partially discharged state for longer than necessary. Or even allowed to sit without a maintenance charge if possible. Deep cycle batteries are designed to tolerate repeated deep discharges, but they will still fail if not charged properly and maintained at full charge as much as possible. Modern smart chargers are the key to long life while old fashioned ferro-resonant chargers will ruin them. The reason for this is that batteries (lead acid flooded cell type) need to get to about 14.1 volts during charging to prevent sulfation, or counteract short term sulfation, but this voltage is too high for storage and will boil out the water. Occasionally they need to be driven up to about 16 volts to condition them, but only for a short term. Then they should be maintained at about 13.2 volts for long term storage.

It's easy to think a 12v battery is doing fine in an RV or boat if it reads 12 volts on the meter. A fully charged and rested 12v lead acid battery will read about 12.65 volts, but at 12 volts is down to about 20% capacity. So, it's easy to think there is much more capacity than there really is, or that the battery is in better health than it really is. As sulfation takes it's toll, the battery will still charge up and even hold it's charge, but it's available amp hours will become less and less, until it becomes useless.

[Mr Lynn]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Those washers really help. I've used them in the past. I think they have some kind of grease on them.

In years past, I used to smear a little Vaseline on the car's battery terminals, after the cable clamps were tightened, to prevent corrosion. Seemed to help.

/Mr Lynn

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Raspy

A fully charged and rested 12v lead acid battery will read about 12.65 volts, but at 12 volts is down to about 20% capacity.

See chart for correct information.

[Franswa]

I'm thinking the original quoted text meant 20% of USABLE capacity....taking for granted that one will never let their battery bank go below 50%....

could be wrong...happens lots.....but one thing is for sure there is nothing exact in the battery biz.....erring on the side of caution seems to be the route to go to avoid buying batteries too often........YMMV

(thanks to the original poster for that text...saved it)