Delivery in 1 week

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Darral T.

.... If you dont overload the circuit, it's no different that 20A. My Coleman pulls 7A MAX on high. ...
Not sure why everyone is condemning 15A. If I was running the heat strip, then it would be a no-no. But again, if you want to run on the 15A to stay cool, it will be fine. ...

[re: surge suppressors]
One thing to keep in mind, they WILL NOT help during "brown outs"....unless they're protected with battery power or something.

If your Coleman AV only draws 7 amps then maybe the manufacturer says it can run on a 15 amp circuit.. there are of course many window unit ACs that do just that.

All I was pointing out is that the manufactures of many RV AC units specify a 20 amp circuit and they must have a reason for that.

Of course running something on a 20 amp circuit is not the same as running it on a 15 amp one. One allows more power draw than the other, both constant and short term. It is the short term surge that is the concern when running a AC unit.

The Dometic AC unit on my 8 foot pop-up had a draw of 13.5 amp when running on high, so you would think it would be fine to run on a 15 amp circuit. But when it starts up, the inrush current can be as much as 70 amps! See the "locked compressor" numbers on page four here.

So, on a 20 amp circuit you have more power available for this short term surge / inrush current requirement, and therefore it's safer to run the AC that way if that is what the manufacturer says you should do.

Thats the simple explanation. Google "inrush current" to learn more.

Also while it is true that simple surge suppressors will not help with brown outs, the one I linked to does.. to quote from the manufacturer, "High low voltage protection: Whenever source power falls below 104 Volts, or rise (sic) above 132 volts the EMS automatically shut down power to the RV"

You get what you pay for (sometimes).

[Darral T.]

Gordon, the numbers I posted (7A) are real-life numbers on my Coleman Polar Cub 9K Btu. I actually checked it myself plugged into my ac at home. AGAIN, (and you read this on another thread), Coleman DOES recommend 20A on my unit. BUT, the heating unit pulls 13+A and I wouldnt feel good running it on 15A. But think back! Scamp WIRED my A/C unit with 15A wire/breaker!! In 5 yrs, I've never had it to throw a breaker but aain, I DID contact Kent @ Scamp about it. He didnt seem concerned. But I told him if I EVER bought another Scamp, that he would put what's required in there or I wouldnt sign the bill.

I looked at the Progressive Industries EMS you listed. I wish there were some reviews on it somewhere. I like the sound of what it does. While I've never used one, I still dont think they're a bad idea. Just more insurance in my book.

To be honest, I was going to buy one of the nicer ones at Camping World and one of their techs just flat talked me out of it!

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Darral T.

Gordon, the numbers I posted (7A) are real-life numbers on my Coleman Polar Cub 9K Btu. I actually checked it myself plugged into my ac at home. .... In 5 yrs, I've never had it to throw a breaker but aain,

I DID contact Kent @ Scamp about it. He didnt seem concerned. But I told him if I EVER bought another Scamp, that he would put what's required in there or I wouldnt sign the bill.

All good points, but I still wonder if the AC is getting enough surge (inrush) current on a 15 amp circuit as opposed to a 20 amp.. breakers tripping or not is not the entire story, for example there is circuit resistance too.. well this is the epitome of YMMV.

Maybe Kent is not too concerned because Coleman, etc, honor their warrantees without checking the install. If they did deny a claim because of a bad install, I wonder if Scamp would cover it.. (I would guess not).

Originally Posted by Darral T.

I looked at the Progressive Industries EMS you listed. I wish there were some reviews on it somewhere. I like the sound of what it does. While I've never used one, I still dont think they're a bad idea. Just more insurance in my book.

To be honest, I was going to buy one of the nicer ones at Camping World and one of their techs just flat talked me out of it!

Wow they talked you out of buying something? Amazing.. well they are insurance, of course, no more.. they wont make your AC colder or your rig more energy efficient.

[whoot]

Yesterday was 1 B.C., and tomorrow will be 1 A.D. That would be, Before Casita, and After Delivery.

[Cathi]

Beautiful! May you have many good times with it.

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by OneOleMan

Wow! I didn't realize they could be that expensive. Maybe you could go for a cheaper one first then take the Casita to a reputable RV dealer to have a permanent one installed, (that would be my preference). There should be no need to unplug your trailer, it draws very little power and with a surge protector you should be able to leave it plugged in 24/7.

You get what you pay for Pat. The cheap ones often give you nothing more than a false sense of security, because they don't actually clamp the surge properly. The one I linked (there are many other quality ones as well) will react in less than a nanosecond. Adequate to protect the trailer.


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[Oma]

I feel the same way. We have to wait until the first week of October. It's unbearable!

[Oma]

No like button, but I like it!

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by Darral T.

I looked at the Progressive Industries EMS you listed. I wish there were some reviews on it somewhere. I like the sound of what it does. While I've never used one, I still dont think they're a bad idea. Just more insurance in my book.

To be honest, I was going to buy one of the nicer ones at Camping World and one of their techs just flat talked me out of it!

The Progressive EMS is the standard option for Escape trailers. I've had two shutdowns at campgrounds for an open ground (it displays an error code for what the problem is with the incoming power.) You can override it if you decide things are worth the risk by turning it off. When first powered up, it takes about 3 minutes to examine the incoming power before it will energize the trailer.

[Vanderscamper]

Talked to David Smith in Backus today and said we should be done by Aug 19. He will have talked to the fella who does the delivery driving before then , so we should have the 16' layout 6 VanderScamp by Aug 23. So many things to worry about!@!!!

[C&G in FL]

All this talk about 15, 20, and 30 amp circuits and A/C. The truth is that it is the circuit breaker (or fuse) which controls how much current is passing through the wire. Different gauge wires are approved for different amperages. For example, 12 gauge wire is rated for 20 amps, 10 gauge for 30, and 14 gauge for 15 amps. The breaker is designed to trip or the fuse to blow if its rating is exceeded, to prevent wires that are too small for the current passing through them from melting and causing a fire. For example, if an appliance is demanding 21 amps and the breaker is a 20 amp, the breaker will trip thereby cutting off all current. The bottom line is that if you plug your A/C into a 15 amp circuit and it runs without tripping the breaker, then its amperage demand is less than the 15 amps the breaker will allow to pass without tripping. Most small trailers have 30 amp plugs for 30 amp circuits because they are expected to supply adequate current for running the A/C, the microwave, lights, and all other on-board accessories at the same time. Theoretically, all of them do not add up to 30 amps. You run into trouble and trip breakers when everything inside is running, and you decide to blow dry your hair and the hair dryer pushes demand over 30 amps.
If you plug the trailer into a 20 amp outlet with a cord rated for 20 amps meaning it can deliver 20 amps and the A/C runs, you simply are NOT going to damage it. And even though adapters may be rated at 15 amps or whatever, they are totally capable of delivering 20 amps. The A/C in my trailer, when running, draws approximately 14 amps, so supplying it with 20 amps and not 30 amps is NOT detrimental.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by CPW

... The A/C in my trailer, when running, draws approximately 14 amps, so supplying it with 20 amps and not 30 amps is NOT detrimental.

But when the AC starts up it draws the "Locked Rotor Amps (LRA)" which is about 70 amps.. the only reason the 20 amp breaker does not trip is that the breaker tolerates current surges over its rating for very brief periods of time.

A 15 amp breaker tolerates less surge current.

You don't want to repeatedly starts up an AC unit with a power source that cannot supply the LRA (for the very brief time it needs it).

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by gordon2

But when the AC starts up it draws the "Locked Rotor Amps (LRA)" which is about 70 amps.. the only reason the 20 amp breaker does not trip is that the breaker tolerates current surges over its rating for very brief periods of time.

A 15 amp breaker tolerates less surge current.

You don't want to repeatedly starts up an AC unit with a power source that cannot supply the LRA (for the very brief time it needs it).

In theory, Gordon, yes, but in practical reality, not so much. Many of the RV A/C manufacturers are building in hard start capacitors, and they can be added to older units if there is any concern to provide any necessary start-up surge. I am far more worried about brown outs damaging my A/C unit than running it on a 20 amp circuit, and have never, in 40+ years of RVing ever damaged an A/C unit by running it on a circuit smaller than the trailer plug needs, and most of that time was without a hard start capacitor. And I would be more concerned about individuals trying to run A/C units with marginally powered generators. As I see it, there is no need to create unnecessary panic. That is my opinion, and if you do not see it that way, I can respect your opinion and your right to it. I just do not concur. And I thought all the hype over Y2K was a bunch of BS, also.


I also realize that a lot of older homes have 15 amp circuits. Most new construction has nothing smaller than 20 amp.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by CPW

1. I am far more worried about brown outs damaging my A/C unit than running it on a 20 amp circuit,...

2. And I would be more concerned about individuals trying to run A/C units with marginally powered generators. ...

3. And I thought all the hype over Y2K was a bunch of BS, also.

4. I also realize that a lot of older homes have 15 amp circuits. Most new construction has nothing smaller than 20 amp.

I could not agree more with points 1 and 2. You are right on there.
Thats the reason I plan to add this to my trailer before running the AC.
(And for the record.. the 20 amp circuit is what I understand is supposed to be used for most RV AV units, at least the rooftop ones. Using a 15 amp circuit is questionable IMHO)

RE: # 3... I was one of the few who laughed at all the panic before Y2k.

Re #4: I think that some of this discussion was prompted by the report that Scamp was only using a 15 amp circuit for the AC in their trailers even though the AC manufacturer called for 20.

[Darral T.]

You're EXACTLY right Gordon. I was the one that discovered that Scamp put a 15A breaker and 14ga wire in my Scamp when Coleman explicitly states in their documentation to not use less than a 20A breaker and 12Ga wire.

I run the heat strip and it pushes the envelope at 14A when it's running! My point was, I had spoken to Kent Eveland and told him about it. He brushed it off. But I made it clear to him that day that IF I was to ever purchase another Scamp, he'd put the recommended wire/breaker in there that the equipment manufacturer called for or I would leave it sitting in Backus!! That still stands.

So CPW, I'm sorry but I disagree with you. And if you concur that it's ok what Scamp did and doesnt see the need to or simply wont change it, then in my opinion, you are wrong! And it has nothing to do with panic...no one's in a panic.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Darral T.

So CPW, I'm sorry but I disagree with you. And if you concur that it's ok what Scamp did and doesnt see the need to or simply wont change it, then in my opinion, you are wrong! And it has nothing to do with panic...no one's in a panic.

No apology necessary, Darral T, but had you read my post carefully, you would see that I was not advocating running an A/C on 15 amps, I said it would not be detrimental to run it on 20 amps. I did say that if it were run on 15 amps and it did not trip the breaker, then it was "demanding" less current than the 15 amp would allow to flow. And the panic to which I referred was the implication in previous posts that if you don't plug into a 30 amp outlet, A/C damage would occur. Some people with little understanding of electrical circuits do panic over this type of misinformation. I do not in any way condone what Scamp does. I owned a Scamp and sold it after I came to the conclusion that Scamp was an acronym, and my acronym is not complimentary of what Kent and his cohorts do in Backus. While I won't post my "interpretation" (my opinion) as to what Scamp stands for publically, PM me if you just cannot live without knowing what I feel the name really means. With that you might just agree.


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[Darral T.]

We're not far off base from out point of views.

It's VERY easy to wander off track during online forum topics from misunderstandings.

I agree 100% with you on being able to run off of 15A circuits. I do it all the time with my Scamp and 15A adapter at home. I've taken it to son-in-law's house...15A on their carport. But, I dont feel comfortable running my heat strip over night with 15A....20A yes. But the A/C (except for the 'stall' amps (LRA) I believe it was) doesnt pull continuously what my heat strip does...I've checked them both. But I agree with Gordon; I'd STILL much prefer a larger breaker and not run close to the edge! Kent Eveland could not be convinced of that! I bet he's STILL putting 15A on A/C's with heatstrips. I'd love to know!

All in all, if you had to plug into a 30A ONLY? My A/C would have been gone YEARS ago.

I just recently laid another myth aside. I've heard if your generator runs out of gas it will burn up your A/C. I have an old cheap one going out (freezing up) so I decided to test it. For about 7-8 times, I would shut the fuel off on my Champion 3500-4000 and let it "run out" of gas with the A/C AND compressor running. One thing I noticed, the generator- once it started pulsating when it was running out...it would get to a point, shut down and quickly come to a stop! Not so not under a load and with a normal shutdown....it coasts considerably. Maybe it's because the generator is under the load and it acts as a brake. Regardless, it never hurt the A/C. Fun stuff!

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Darral T.

It's VERY easy to wander off track during online forum topics from misunderstandings.

Totally agree with you on this. I've often thought (and said) that if these discussions were around a campfire rather than a computer keyboard, any statements made could be immediately questioned and clarified. Also, disagreements do not get people as hot under the collar when in a social setting rather than an electronic setting. But unfortunately we cannot always be camping at the same place or all year long, so unfortunately, misunderstandings will always exist on this type of forum. That, and a lot of people, myself included, do not always convey exactly what they mean to convey. Still, I find the exchange of opinions, experiences, ideas, and knowledge here to be informative and beneficial.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by CPW

Totally agree with you on this. I've often thought (and said) that if these discussions were around a campfire ....

Speaking of campfires... what do you think of .... oh wait, if we get THAT far off topic we will never find our way back

In fact, right now I have no idea what this thread is about but I seem to recall it being something about the energy resulting from the existence of charged particles (such as electrons or protons), either statically as an accumulation of charge or dynamically as a current, and how to transfer that power and harness it to reduce the average kinetic energy in an enclosed space.

Anyway William, if you have not run away yet, how is the Casita working out for you?