First Trillium Window Remove, Reseal and Reinstall - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-18-2018, 06:30 AM   #15
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Some random corroded window screws. Screws at the end of each row are in original shape to show the difference.

1977 Trillium Rebuild by wrk101, on Flickr
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:17 PM   #16
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Finished the four big windows (the one in the kitchen is riveted in place, I'll do that later, and I will consider what if anything to do with the one in the door).

Some stats/learnings:

The front and rear windows really needed it. On the front, I replaced two of the wood frame pieces (one side and the bottom), and had to beef up screw holes on the third (toothpicks and hot melt glue). The rear had one bad side frame piece.

Screw condition tells the story. If the screws all come out without any loss of threads, then the wood is likely fine. If the screws show rust, then the wood is probably bad.

Much of the old butyl tape was hard, not much life left in it. I don't know if it dries out over time, but that is how it appeared. After all, it was probably 41 years old.

Regluing the ensolite was a mistake, hard to get it wrinkle free on the re-glue. Also had to jam the ensolite back into the window frame, putty knife and screw driver did the trick. I probably should have just tucked the ensolite back in and skipped the glue. I'll think about that later.

Rock guard sides had no butyl tape at all. Odd. No wonder it leaked.

Next project is to get the brake, tail lights, and side marker lights working.
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:39 AM   #17
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It would appear that water infiltration occured through the screw holes rather than through the frame edge. Dissimilar metals? Galvanic action, temperature expansion, or perhaps just lack of sealant under the heads? Newer windows use an internal clamping ring which eliminates the external screws. I assumed it was just aesthetics. Obviously not. I wonder if a dab of caulk under each screw head would help?
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:53 AM   #18
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First Trillium Window Remove, Reseal and Reinstall

The seal you are calling Butyl does not look like Butyl to me at all but just the grey mastic caulk popular back in the day?

Actual Butyl is so much more pliable and sticky that it is insane!

I made sure to use actual Butyl Rubber when resealing mine both times.
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Old 10-20-2018, 07:05 AM   #19
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Ed Harris, if you look at IMG 5548, looks like butyl tape to me.

I agree that butyl tape at room temp or higher is very sticky and extremely stretchy, like bubble gum.
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Old 10-20-2018, 07:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Raz View Post
It would appear that water infiltration occured through the screw holes rather than through the frame edge. Dissimilar metals? Galvanic action, temperature expansion, or perhaps just lack of sealant under the heads? Newer windows use an internal clamping ring which eliminates the external screws. I assumed it was just aesthetics. Obviously not. I wonder if a dab of caulk under each screw head would help?
Good point Raz, as those screws deteriorate they likely leave enough space for water to intrude. Also, per galvanic action: it occurs to me to wonder why they didn't just use aluminum rivets to attach the (aluminum) windows in the first place. The fiberglass is thick enough to grab well and the wood seems to me to serve the sole purpose of providing something to set those screws into-?
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:37 AM   #21
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Good point Raz, as those screws deteriorate they likely leave enough space for water to intrude. Also, per galvanic action: it occurs to me to wonder why they didn't just use aluminum rivets to attach the (aluminum) windows in the first place. The fiberglass is thick enough to grab well and the wood seems to me to serve the sole purpose of providing something to set those screws into-?
I'm actually glad they used screws instead of rivets. On my boler they used rivets and what a PIA to remove those , when I resealed the windows in my boler I used stainless screws with a rubber washer and fresh new butyl tape in between. It was a lot of work On my trillium I replaced all the wood, front , back and rear right window and new screws and it is so much quicker and easier.
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Old 10-20-2018, 09:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ed Harris View Post
The seal you are calling Butyl does not look like Butyl to me at all but just the grey mastic caulk popular back in the day?

Actual Butyl is so much more pliable and sticky that it is insane!

I made sure to use actual Butyl Rubber when resealing mine both times.
Definitely not caulk as it was in tape form. Some was very pliable, other was dried out and "crispy".

As far as the corrosion, all of the screw corrosion occurred in the wood, the heads and initial threads close to the heads were OK, as it went into the wood, corrosion began. So I am thinking its more just ordinary rust, caused by wet wood. Some of the screws likely leaked, rock guard sides didn't even have butyl tape. Other may have leaked past the failed butyl tape.
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:27 PM   #23
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Definitely not caulk as it was in tape form. Some was very pliable, other was dried out and "crispy".

As far as the corrosion, all of the screw corrosion occurred in the wood, the heads and initial threads close to the heads were OK, as it went into the wood, corrosion began. So I am thinking its more just ordinary rust, caused by wet wood. Some of the screws likely leaked, rock guard sides didn't even have butyl tape. Other may have leaked past the failed butyl tape.
Still looks just like Putty tape to me and distinctly different than a Butyl product?

But I could sure be wrong too.

I researched and shopped extensively before choosing actual Butyl Rubber to redo every window/skylight that I have done and there is an old school product which is more of a putty tape and the newer Butyl which is really an automotive and glass sealant mostly it turns out.

Anyway the Putty is just not the same as the Butyl and it is hard to imagine the butyl rotting or drying out to me.
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Old 10-20-2018, 05:59 PM   #24
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I wasn't there when it was installed 41 years ago, so maybe you are right. Who knows.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:08 AM   #25
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What is called butyl tape by most, (me included) is as Ed says mastic calk. True butyl is black.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:45 AM   #26
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Just to clarify any confusion here, 90% of the material sealing the windows was still soft and pliable, but some of it wasn't. In particular, the stuff used on the horizontal top of the rock guard was relatively stiff, and I was able to snap it into pieces. It was also dirtier than the rest of the seal material I saw.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:04 AM   #27
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What is called butyl tape by most, (me included) is as Ed says mastic calk. True butyl is black.
I wouldn't call butyl tape mastic caulk but it's true it isn't natural rubber either. It's something BETTER, at least for applications like sealing windows etc. Butyl tape was developed to overcome natural rubber's limitations especially its vulnerability to temp variations.
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Old 11-03-2018, 12:25 PM   #28
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Is this butyl tape?

Hi folks, we're resealing the windows of our 1973 Trillium.

We replaced the wood framing already (it was horribly deteriorated, literally falling out when we pulled back ensolite... see pics of our project here) and that has helped a great deal, but I don't think it has ever been fully resealed in the last 45 years. We're still seeing some minor leaks (coming out the bottom of the ensolite with a bit of pooling on top of the bench areas...), but nothing as bad as when we first bought it! We replaced all the screws with stainless steel when we reframed the windows, but i am now considering pulling them out and adding in rubber washers to add an extra seal in when I do the butyl tape (should have done that from the get go, i know!). As we live on the we(s)t coast, definitely want to stop these leaks!

I've shopped around locally but haven't been able to find butyl tape - hardware stores here say the used to carry it but don't anymore. Did some searching on amazon, and am seeing some that looks more like the putty you've been describing, and what i think is actual butyl tape....

Anyone mind confirming this is what I should be using? If not, if you can provide an amazon (Canada) link, that would be awesome! Also - how much do you think you need to redo all 4 windows on a Trillium? This is 50 ft.... Do i need to use two layers? This tape is 1" wide, should i cut it to 1/2" and double up?

Much appreciated!

https://www.amazon.ca/Butyl-Tape-Bla...rds=butyl+tape
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