Got new carpet for walls and ceiling - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-21-2017, 01:35 PM   #1
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Name: Ilene
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Got new carpet for walls and ceiling

Has anyone replaced the low nap carpet on stripped Perris Pacer? I'm wondering how to do that plus insulate...
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:30 PM   #2
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Got new carpet for walls and ceiling

One common approach is a layer of foil bubble insulation (Reflectix is one brand, available at home improvement stores), followed by marine headliner (available from Scamp or a number of online suppliers, google "marine headliner"). Install using automotive headliner adhesive from your local auto parts store.

That's the easy part. The hard part is stripping the shell of interior cabinetry and windows and putting it back together afterward. For best results you want insulation and lining across the entire shell.

I would recommend looking closely inside a Scamp to see how they piece it together to minimize seams. They've had a lot of time to figure it out.

Haven't done it myself, and I hope I never have to, but I like how it looks and feels in my Scamp. I'd do it the same way again if I had to, except I'd probably go with one of the short-napped products I've seen online rather than Scamp's long-napped headliner.
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
One common approach is a layer of foil bubble insulation (Reflectix is one brand, available at home improvement stores), followed by marine headliner (available from Scamp or a number of online suppliers, google "marine headliner"). Install using automotive headliner adhesive from your local auto parts store.

That's the easy part. The hard part is stripping the shell of interior cabinetry and windows and putting it back together afterward. For best results you want insulation and lining across the entire shell.

I would recommend looking closely inside a Scamp to see how they piece it together to minimize seams. They've had a lot of time to figure it out.

Haven't done it myself, and I hope I never have to, but I like how it looks and feels in my Scamp. I'd do it the same way again if I had to, except I'd probably go with one of the short-napped products I've seen online rather than Scamp's long-napped headliner.

Thanks, Jon. I kind of figured we'd have to take everything out first. Hmm...
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Old 09-22-2017, 05:57 PM   #4
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It would be a waste of time and money to put Reflective bubble wrap products underneath of the headliner materials such as the one that is carpet like. Once you put adhesive onto the reflective surface of that type of material it no longer has the ability to reflect. As you would have to do a full coverage of glue on both the shell side and the material side you then have to benefit from the reflective. Sure you have a few air bubbles in the layer but that gives you only a small fractional amount as far as insulation goes so it is simply not going to be worth the bother of doing it.

You can use what is called Landau foam underneath the headliner. It will give you some R value as well as some sound deadening. But it will only give you around 3.5 R value per inch and you would only be using it in a thickness of between 1/8" to 1/2" thick. So you still won't be gaining very much in terms of insulation.

Therefore you need to put your thinking cap on and decide insulation wise are you getting anything that brings good value out of your money and time for whatever you decide to do with your interior wall finish. The truth is simply that you will gain only a very tiny amount of R value by putting a thin layer of insulating material underneath of the carpet. There is simply no magic bullet product around that will generate good R value with that kind of installation. If there was then the trailer manufacturers would all be doing it.
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k corbin View Post
It would be a waste of time and money to put Reflective bubble wrap products underneath of the headliner materials such as the one that is carpet like. Once you put adhesive onto the reflective surface of that type of material it no longer has the ability to reflect. As you would have to do a full coverage of glue on both the shell side and the material side you then have to benefit from the reflective. Sure you have a few air bubbles in the layer but that gives you only a small fractional amount as far as insulation goes so it is simply not going to be worth the bother of doing it.

You can use what is called Landau foam underneath the headliner. It will give you some R value as well as some sound deadening. But it will only give you around 3.5 R value per inch and you would only be using it in a thickness of between 1/8" to 1/2" thick. So you still won't be gaining very much in terms of insulation.

Therefore you need to put your thinking cap on and decide insulation wise are you getting anything that brings good value out of your money and time for whatever you decide to do with your interior wall finish. The truth is simply that you will gain only a very tiny amount of R value by putting a thin layer of insulating material underneath of the carpet. There is simply no magic bullet product around that will generate good R value with that kind of installation. If there was then the trailer manufacturers would all be doing it.
Is that why Scamp uses 2 layers of Reflex type insulation under the Rat Fur head liner?
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:28 PM   #6
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Not exactly, Byron. They use one layer made with two sheets of bubbles between the foil. I seem to recall it's not Reflectix but some other brand, Ray Foil, maybe?

In Scamp's website video of how they build their trailers, it appears the adhesive is sprayed on in a spatter pattern. I wonder if that preserves some of the reflective properties of the foil. I really don't know. I have read the specs KC cites. In practice, the net result seems better than the next-to-nothing the specs would seem to suggest, even if far less than the R15 Scamp claims. I am satisfied with its performance in temperatures up to around 85F (without A/C or powered roof vent) and down to around 30F (with light furnace use). We avoid extreme temperatures, anyway, since our goal in going camping is to be outside.

A quarter inch layer of closed cell foam under the headliner might be better, but it's more expensive and trickier to install in the corners.

It would be an interesting experiment to make six boxes, line them with nothing, headliner only, Reflectix only, headliner over Reflectix, closed cell foam only, and headliner over closed cell foam. Put thermometers inside and measure the rate of change when placed in a warm or cold environment.
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Old 09-23-2017, 01:24 AM   #7
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One thing I haven't heard mentioned on here is hot rod fire wall insulation. It has a reflective surface with a jute backing. I used it in my '53 chevy pickup everywhere ( firewall, ceiling and rear wall) double layered with reflective surfaces out. The difference in heat was phenomenal.
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Old 09-23-2017, 06:34 AM   #8
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The jute backing sounds like something that might absorb moisture and support mold growth, no? All it takes is a small window leak...
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Old 09-23-2017, 03:05 PM   #9
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Worked in my '53 Chevy street rod pickup. It wasn't exactly watertight and it was a daily driver winter and summer. It rains a lot here in the Vancouver area.
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:47 PM   #10
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Solving the reflectix problem

My scientific internet research supports the belief that reflectix really only functions as an insulator when there is a dead air space between the radiant barrier and the shell. The real benefit of a radiant barrier (reflectix) layer on the trailer is to prevent condensation from forming on the walls and it's ability to withstand moist environments.

Creating a dead air space cannot be accomplished easily with our fiberglass trailers but it can be done cheaply with a layer of normal bubble wrap (like the shipping/mail variety) between the radiant barrier and the shell. It's not much for an air space (1/8"-1/16"?) but it should help. I dont know if it's worth the trouble, but it's cheap if you can get it installed without using 8 cans of spray adhesive.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:48 PM   #11
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reflex

here is how it was done on my 40f eagle bus they laid down 1/2 pure foam hung up with glue of course. Then they put naugahide elephant skin on top of that.

in your case you could order the ratfur from scamp to do the same thing. 3m makes some fantastic glues any good car headliner guy can do this usually an upholstery shop!

bob
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Old 10-01-2017, 12:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
Is that why Scamp uses 2 layers of Reflex type insulation under the Rat Fur head liner?
You would have to ask Scamp why they do what they do. I was not part of their design team
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Old 10-01-2017, 12:38 AM   #13
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Reflectix is 5/16" thick. If they use two layers you are up to 10/16 which is 5/8" The R value of 1/2" of dead air space is .69. So we are looking at an actual R value for two layers of Reflectix as being less than .8 for R value. As I stated in my last posting you are only going to get a small, fractional amount out of a single layer of Reflectix. In fact the cost of putting it in and the fact that you destroy its ability to reflect radiant heat quality by applying glue to it makes the whole situation of installing it pretty much a financial loss.

As to condensation. That happens when warm moist air hits a cold surface. If you have a carpet lining then moisture that is in the air lands on the fibers which are not nearly as prone to condensation dripping issues as the surface of fiberglass or even a plastic surface such a bubble wrap. As the bubble wrap is giving you next to nothing for R Value it too has a cold surface. So basically what is helping with the condensation issue has nothing to do with dead air space from the thin layer of bubble wrap. Instead it is the fibers of the carpet on which the moisture accumulates and then because of it rough surface texture it holds onto it instead of having it drip down on your head. Then when things warm up the moisture slowly evaporates back into the air leaving the surface of the carpet dry once again.

I am not sure why this concept of the carpet being the thing that is preventing the condensation issue of moisture dripping onto your head is so difficult for people to understand. I am also not sure why people actually think a small air gap created by some bubbles trapped in plastic could possibly have any significant amount of R value. As to testing what the R values are for various materials used for insulation. There is not need to do it yourself, that has long since been done in labs that have quality control and good instruments for measuring the results. You can find the information from various government web sites and other sites that are from professional building organizations who test out potentially fraudulent claims of R value.

If Scamp is claiming to get R-15 out of two layers of relflectix with a spray glued application then that does not sound in the least possible as the most R value they can get out of 5/8" inch of bubble wrap is less than R1. The R value of indoor outdoor carpet is about .20 but lets be generous and double that. So now adding up the double layer of bubbles for a 5/8" inch air space for R.8 and a R .40 value for the carpet you end up with R1.2

I have no idea where that claim of R15 actually came from as I have not been to the Scamp website to verify that they are the ones claiming that.
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Old 10-01-2017, 06:02 AM   #14
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" I am also not sure why people actually think a small air gap created by some bubbles trapped in plastic could possibly have any significant amount of R value."

For me, mainly, because I have sat in my heated Scamp for the past two winters, at times when the outside was in the low teens and single digit. Scamp was heated with one or two ceramic heaters, each set on their low setting and thermostatically controlled by a remote thermostat.

The difference in comfort level before and after applying a single layer of bubble wrap to the windows and vents was phenomenal. Just sitting next to the windows, with curtains drawn was quite chilling prior to applying the bubble wrap, after applying, I could sit next to the windows all evening without getting a chill. You will not convince me that that single layer of bubble wrap did not make a HUGE difference.

Seems, by your reasoning, dual pane windows are a scam also.
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