Help me decide.... - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-23-2010, 12:20 PM   #29
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We considered an EggCamper last year when looking for a larger trailer. The double walled construction (our first trailer was a 13' Burro, we like the look and 'feel' of double walled), and the height were pluses for us. The two factors that we didn't like was that it was all electric and window placement.

Propane vs electric is a personal choice, we like the option of both. When electrical hook-up is available we have a plug in heater that is quieter than our built-in propane heater, but we did not want to limit our camping choices to available electricity, especially since electrical hook-up sites are more expensive. We like the option of staying where ever, there are many beautiful campgrounds in the NW that do not have electrical hook-ups, or the electrical sites are few and rarely private. We have used our propane heater on many a chilly night in the spring, fall and even summer and been happy to have it. It depends on where, when and how you plan to use your trailer.

We ended up getting an Escape, partially because it was closer & we found a previously owned one, but also because of the windows and propane. The folks who build Escapes have previous experience with trailers and knew what people wanted, liked and needed. Jim at EggCamper is very passionate about NOT having propane, but, though an excellent fiberglass engineer, he had no previous experience with trailers. I think he designed a great trailer for folks who see trailering more of a RVing experience than a camping experience.

You will need to decide how you think you will use your trailer, it sounds like you foresee yourself mostly being where electricity is available. And of course in the warmer months it doesn't matter.

As already mentioned, there is no 'perfect' trailer, but there are wonderful experiences to be had once you buy one........

Penney
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:43 PM   #30
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Raya I suspect you are talking about the space between the foil itself and the rat fur in which case you are correct there is no space between the two on the Scamp.

The foil that Scamp uses is actually made by Astro and it is constucted with foil on two sides with a double layer of bubbles on the inside - which gives the foil a bit of a built in spacing - which on its own I would suggest gives it some r-value even without the space on either side of the foil. Here is the link to the product details: http://www.astrofoilint.com/stage/br...20RI%20bro.pdf


As far as figuring out the real r value I will leave up to others LOL
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:35 PM   #31
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I see plusses and minusses to an egg built with a liner. It's possible for a liner to add structural strength, but not a given (depends on how it is designed and especially on how the liner is attached to the shell; also, it's possible to then build with two thinner shells, so again, stronger is possible but not a given).

I like the shiny clean gelcoated interior of a linered egg; but then on the other hand I don't like the idea that a leak/mold/whatever could get between the liner and the outer shell and I would not be able to get to it.

So... plusses and minusses (as in other features like insulation, height, you-name-it).
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Raya I suspect you are talking about the space between the foil itself and the rat fur in which case you are correct there is no space between the two on the Scamp.

The foil that Scamp uses is actually made by Astro and it is constucted with foil on two sides with a double layer of bubbles on the inside - which gives the foil a bit of a built in spacing - which on its own I would suggest gives it some r-value even without the space on either side of the foil. Here is the link to the product details: http://www.astrofoilint.com/stage/br...20RI%20bro.pdf

As far as figuring out the real r value I will leave up to others LOL
Hi Carol,

I will have a look at the Astrofoil info.

That said, I do not believe that air "built in" to the insulation itself "counts" as an air space. If it did, then Reflectix, etc. would not say that two layers back-to-back only added R-1. The air space they are referring to has to be in addition to that inside the bubbles and insulation product itself. This is easier to accomplish in a house wall, where you have inches to work with and not millimeters.

From Astro Foil [I added boldness]:

1. ASTRO-FOIL works best when there is a 3/4” air space on each side of the insulation. (Larger air space is fine but a smaller one reduces its thermal effectiveness.)

They give the R-value of one thickness as about 7 for horizontal (walls) and R-15 up (ceiling), BUT they say this:

These values are obtained in a C236 hot box test and represent the R-Value of the cavity that includes the surround air spaces. The
measurements were made in a cavity framed with standard 2”x4” lumber...ASTRO-FOIL’S ability to reflect heat in open applications is not fully measured by this test. It’s that extra reflective capability that makes it possible for ASTRO-FOIL to keep people and animals comfortable all year long.

I think it's that last sentence that is problematic for an egg application wherein you do not have a ~4" wall to make a the reflective cavity they refer to.

I don't mean to pick on Scamp, or on foil insulation. It certainly gives you something, and is preferable to an uninsulated shell. And our eggs don't need much to stay cosy. But R-15 seems like a stretch, since it is not in a wall cavity, and a doubled up layer (two batts back-to-back) seems to add virtually nothing (R-1).
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Ray N View Post
Jim,
Yes I would, without a doubt. As I said earlier, the most important factor to me was the headroom. I know some people say it doesn't bother them to have to hunch over while in their campers, but I just don't think I could put up with it. Again, the all-electric factor is no problem around here (Florida and Alabama); all the campgrounds seem to have electricity - probably because of the hot summers and the need for AC, (you don't run air conditioners on propane).
If I wasn't so darn tall, or if I lived somewhere where electric hooks-ups weren't so common, it would be a much tougher decision. You can get around most of the no propane handicap with generators, Coleman stoves, ice chests, and portable heaters, but it's not as elegant.

Attached is a picture of me in a Scamp or Casita (I don't remember which), at the Townsend rally this spring. In the EggCamper I have about three inches of headroom to spare in the center of the camper. I only have to hunch over when I get close to one of the ends.
It's a Casita, but please just how tall are you? I'm 6ft and I stand up straight in the Casitas which I have visited, even the 16.
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:59 PM   #34
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Ray mentioned earlier in the thread that he is 6'4"

Sometimes it is handy to be 5'5"!

Raya
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:01 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Raya I suspect you are talking about the space between the foil itself and the rat fur in which case you are correct there is no space between the two on the Scamp.

The foil that Scamp uses is actually made by Astro and it is constucted with foil on two sides with a double layer of bubbles on the inside - which gives the foil a bit of a built in spacing - which on its own I would suggest gives it some r-value even without the space on either side of the foil. Here is the link to the product details: http://www.astrofoilint.com/stage/br...20RI%20bro.pdf


As far as figuring out the real r value I will leave up to others LOL
Scamp uses reflextix, not astrofoil, quite a different product...
the first picture below is Reflextix.... The second is astrofoil.

http://tinyurl.com/32oyz3b
Attached Thumbnails
foil%20wrap%20around%20larger.jpg   afROLLsample.jpg  

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Old 09-23-2010, 05:18 PM   #36
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Floyd, it looks like exactly the same thing to me.

ASTRO-FOIL reflective foil insulation consists of two layers of polyethylene bubble film sandwiched between two layers of 99.9% pure aluminum foil, making a structure 5/16-inch thick. Depending upon the application, ASTRO-FOIL can outperform 6" of mass insulation in all climates. Even higher performance can be expected in hot, humid climates. ASTRO-FOIL is excellent as a primary insulation for buildings of all types. Preferred by installers and building owners because it is safe to handle, lightweight and works especially well in limited space. There are numerous applications for residential, commercial, industrial and agricultural buildings.

Reflectix® Double Bubble consists of two outer layers of aluminum foil
reflecting 97% of radiant energy. Each layer of foil is bonded to a tough
layer of polyethylene for strength. Two inner layers of insulating bubbles
resist conductive heat flow while a center layer of polyethylene give
Reflectix® high reliability and strength. The Double Bubble product is recommended
when the application calls for enhanced condensation control,
greater strength, and higher thermal qualities. 5/16th inch thickness
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
Floyd, it looks like exactly the same thing to me.

ASTRO-FOIL reflective foil insulation consists of two layers of polyethylene bubble film sandwiched between two layers of 99.9% pure aluminum foil, making a structure 5/16-inch thick. Depending upon the application, ASTRO-FOIL can outperform 6" of mass insulation in all climates. Even higher performance can be expected in hot, humid climates. ASTRO-FOIL is excellent as a primary insulation for buildings of all types. Preferred by installers and building owners because it is safe to handle, lightweight and works especially well in limited space. There are numerous applications for residential, commercial, industrial and agricultural buildings.

Reflectix® Double Bubble consists of two outer layers of aluminum foil
reflecting 97% of radiant energy. Each layer of foil is bonded to a tough
layer of polyethylene for strength. Two inner layers of insulating bubbles
resist conductive heat flow while a center layer of polyethylene give
Reflectix® high reliability and strength. The Double Bubble product is recommended
when the application calls for enhanced condensation control,
greater strength, and higher thermal qualities. 5/16th inch thickness
Even the pictures show the substantial difference in thickness flexibility and bubble size. If it looks like the same thing to you, [they are only pictures afterall] then you should have a sample placed in each hand as I have.
The difference will then be abundantly apparent.


The pictures seemed to confirm my error, sure glad I said... "they are only pictures afterall".
I at least got the names transposed, if not worse Sorry.
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:41 PM   #38
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It looks similar to me, also. I bought some Reflectix last summer to put in my car windows (had to park my car in a sunny lot while I was away), and while it looks like the upper photo where you cut into it, the edges taper down to look like "just" foil, like the second photo. So my uncut roll of Reflectix looked very similar to the uncut roll in the second photo.a

Edit: Sorry, Floyd, we were posting at the same time. If you have had them both in hand and they are different, then ignore me. I was just commenting based on the photos and my experience with Reflectix. That said, it sounds like the characteristics are similar regarding air spaces and r-values, does it not? (Going by the manufacturer documents).
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:45 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Scamp uses reflextix, not astrofoil, quite a different product...
the first picture below is Reflextix.... The second is astrofoil.

[B]]Reflectix Inc. | The World’s Largest Manufacturer of Reflective Insulation and Radiant Barrier Products
Actually on Scamps parts page under product discription it reads "Astro Foil insulation. Double bubble with foil on both sides"


Heres the link to their page: Foil Ray Insulation (Per Sq. Ft.)
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:49 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Even the pictures show the substantial difference in thickness flexibility and bubble size. If it looks like the same thing to you, [they are only pictures afterall] then you should have a sample placed in each hand as I have.
The difference will then be abundantly apparent.
Floyd something isn't right. Both the products claim to be 5/16" thick.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:18 PM   #41
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Reflectix comes in different configurations for different applications. I've used several types for different projects. I've never used or seen Astro Foil in person.

Reflectix Inc. | Products

Floyd what are the differences since you have handled both? Which is more flexible?
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Actually on Scamps parts page under product discription it reads "Astro Foil insulation. Double bubble with foil on both sides"


Heres the link to their page: Foil Ray Insulation (Per Sq. Ft.)
Interesting - Scamp refers to it both as "Foil Ray" and "Astro Foil." I don't find a lot on "Foil Ray" online; "Astro Foil" has a website. Perhaps they have used either one in the past, depending on pricing and availability. From what I read about "Astro Foil" and "Reflectix," they sound similar, and, more importantly, like they have similar R-value and needs, in terms of air space and etc. This would make sense, since it's the concept of radiant insulation.

I did also find a site that was apparently talking about insulation products to use for their program, and they seemed to mention all three interchangeably.

Raya
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