Horse Power from Horses??????

[Pat B Ohio]

The 5th wheel model would let you drive under an overhang.... Maybe you could mod one to add a cab area to the front. Most wagons set up so much higher than the eggs. Maybe you need the double trailer model. One to live in and one flatbed for hay. Just add a hitch to the back for a small hay/feed wagon.

[DonDeutsch]

pioneer forcart: yeah that would be nice. I didn't even look at the prices.

[Jim Manley]

Calm down there Jim!

I think you have me confused with Fred maybe? He has the jacked up Fiberstream with the red stripe but he is in California not Missouri.

I am in St.Louis and my Fiberstream is a little newer than his and not as well tended to.

They are different than all other rigs here for sure and feel roomier inside and have tandem axles with leaf springs and not the single torsion axle that is common here.

Like I said you are welcome to give it a look.

I will PM you and we can go from there.

Ed

ummmmm.CONFUSED????no prob im used to that.do you mean to say ther is more than one fiberstream fellow on here!!!! wow stunned silence.i live in greenfield mo i love this little town but in 3 min you can get an opinon pole of the whole town we have 0 stoplights 9 churches and 2 bars.any idea how long a conversation lasts unless its about cattle or grass seed.we all go to the same resturant every sunday.the cook gets paid extra to burn ever few meals so we can have a conversation so your letter was meant to calm me down.ha ha ha ha .
i think i like this new fancy computer thing.mama said calif was a lie to sucker ppl into spending money.
so i would much rather talk to some one in saint louis HEY ED what is a PM.st louis i think i been there aint that the place where they got a shiney toll bridge that dont cross the river.
do i get pics?
does this trailer not fit your needs?????

[Jim Manley]

The 5th wheel model would let you drive under an overhang.... Maybe you could mod one to add a cab area to the front. Most wagons set up so much higher than the eggs. Maybe you need the double trailer model. One to live in and one flatbed for hay. Just add a hitch to the back for a small hay/feed wagon.

now there is a new idea a fith wheel would give cover and as far as a cart when the big rig is parked.the front axle will only be hooked up to the trailer ball so it will swivel amd pivit it will be easy to uncouple and ride to town i will only take 4- 6 bales so that might fit under overhang w me. i went and looked at scamp 19
any other sugestions?

[Jim Manley]

pioneer forcart: yeah that would be nice. I didn't even look at the prices.

yes they are worth ever penny if you have that many penneys.
i am a very lucky man one of my best friends is a professional welder. i traded him a horse for a small simple cart.
so he took the horse,and then built a small independant coil spring a frame suspension that will adjust to fit a percheron or a tiny little mini horse with a custom oak slat bench seat that has lumbar support and 600 lbs carrying capacity.talk about sweeeet ride oh yea it fits behind my lawn mower too.what a guy he loves that horse.and hasent touched a drop of booze or weed in years.
anyway my other friend will give me a truck axle he said pick the one i want and its mine.
he is good horse ppl too.this will allow me to use a alternator for small electric needs while moving.
so if i put both friends together i will prob end up making a pioneer look bad.

KEEP THE GOOD IDEAS COMING THANKYOU JIM

[Jim Manley]

Calm down there Jim!

I think you have me confused with Fred maybe? He has the jacked up Fiberstream with the red stripe but he is in California not Missouri.

I am in St.Louis and my Fiberstream is a little newer than his and not as well tended to.

They are different than all other rigs here for sure and feel roomier inside and have tandem axles with leaf springs and not the single torsion axle that is common here.

Like I said you are welcome to give it a look.

I will PM you and we can go from there.

Ed

ok i figured it out this place has mesages like yahoo.
now if i just figure out how to use it
hey Ed does fiberstream have a fiberglass bottem on the outside or plywood?

[Steve L.]

Get a Gypsy caravan and be done with it. They look like Fiberstreams and they're made for horses. Sheesh.
Gypsy Caravan

[Bruce Thomas]

use one horse.....ride it, or walk beside it ........bring along a tent and supplies.

I'm also wondering what you plan to do when you come upon a highway? You cant go around can you?

[DonDeutsch]

I did some net research on the gypsy wagons a while back. I was interested in these, but there is virtually no market I could find in the US, making these a ground up custom build. (Also they don't travel at 60 mph very well).

[Jim Manley]

use one horse.....ride it, or walk beside it ........bring along a tent and supplies.

I'm also wondering what you plan to do when you come upon a highway? You cant go around can you?

ummmmm we have to go with no on that i am tooooo old

highways.......if a car can cross so can i.
i try very hard to be polite in all ways but in all honesty horses were here first.
there are towns that have no horse allowed laws.
and just as for overnight camper parking,there are websites for posting this info.
then again why would i want to go to town??????

[Jim Manley]

I did some net research on the gypsy wagons a while back. I was interested in these, but there is virtually no market I could find in the US, making these a ground up custom build. (Also they don't travel at 60 mph very well).

oh man i loved that so much i had to bookmark it thankyou thankyou.
however i must say it looks very heavy.
with a light trailer i can go farther each day as beautiful as that is i wouldnt pull it with less than 3 heavy horse.
hmmmmm a unicorn hitch 1 in front 2 behind him i havent seen that done in a long time????
thankyou for the post jim

[Bruce Thomas]

Are todays horses wimpy or something?..didnt our settlers use a two horse team strapped to a very heavy covered wagon etc loaded down with all they owned? and werent the bearings and wheels then alot less agreeable to rolling along ?....you should be able to pull just about anything that suits your fancy ...be it a gypsy wagon or sled....especially if youre not in a hurry

[Don H.]

oh man i loved that so much i had to bookmark it thankyou thankyou.
however i must say it looks very heavy.
with a light trailer i can go farther each day as beautiful as that is i wouldnt pull it with less than 3 heavy horse.
hmmmmm a unicorn hitch 1 in front 2 behind him i havent seen that done in a long time????
thankyou for the post jim

There are folks restoring old shepherd's wagons, and building new ones from scratch (if money is truly no object). A search on "sheep wagons for sale" or "shepherds wagons for sale" will turn up a few. Some have relatively modern running gear, with auto or truck tires. I even saw one that appeared to have a car hitch, so it was probably built for highway speeds, so probably not of interest...

[Jim Manley]

[1]Are todays horses wimpy or something?..didnt our settlers use a two horse team strapped to a [2] very heavy covered wagon etc loaded down with all they owned? and werent the bearings and wheels then alot less agreeable to rolling along ?....you should be able to pull just about anything that suits your fancy ...be it a gypsy wagon or sled....especially if youre not in a hurry

o boy ummmm i suppose this seems like a simple question to ask.and i am very glad you did.
and im glad i get to be the one to answer your question.
this might be the longest response ever.
1 the horses that i have are a vast improvment above the best horses available in the era you speak of.
2the wagons they had actually rolled very easy bushings are still prefered today on low speed equipment.
all other things equal a larger tire rolls easier,and a harder tire rolls easier.this can be tested by checking your gas mileage at 15 psi against your normal mileage at 35 psi.
lets take a look at what they probly didnt own.toothbrush, toothpaste, more than 2 pair of shoes at best,
more than 3 changes of clothing.very few books.toilet w tank [try using a shovel today and see how long you stay out of jail]cellphone laptop[so my daughter knows we are alive] car battery to charge cell etc.now lets talk paperwork,birth insurance drivers medical military [that list can go on forever]but paper is light right? plus the box they go in.even pencils were rare.toilet paper.not much soap either.air tire pump.oh yea big weight diff they could carry several hundred lbs of meat in 1 pocket called a rifle round. [try staying out of jail on that one too]most didnt even have a dog.[plus doggy food min 50 lbs their dog hunted[can you say doggy jail]they carried very little hay. i will have 300 lbs min plus grain.do you see how each item has items that they require? draft tack per horse weighs almost 100 lbs.if they need leather they used something they shot[rawhide] again jail.now they did carry water but im sure most horse water was carried in the horse.most horses left well musceled and fat and arrived way lighter if alive.good subject i dont know of many[any] caravans that dident lose ppl.remember the part about a 1 lb item being supported by 20 lbs of stuff.and those that were stupid had a better chance of dieing therby improving the overall health of the caravan.their were no police then to force you to keep going when man or animal was already beyond endurance any place that looked good you were able to stop.ok indians yes but that as been greatly romanticised.
they also didnt have 6000 lb object blasting by at totaly stupid rates of speed around corners[if i die who will take cars of my animals] and lets face it back then many many of the ppl you speak of did not see the end of their journey.another good point my journey has no end im not headed anywhere to stay.umm welder 60 lbs[for the iron frame] toolbox 80 lbs.is ANYBODY still reading i would have quit long ago but this young man asked a very good question.and i feel obligated to answer all i can.oh yea 10 in tv i of course being the rugged pioneer type NEVER watch but my dog [lutack] says if anyone suggests leaving that behind he is ripping butt[dvd lassie reruns]
ok i quit thanks see ya jim

[Jim Manley]

There are folks restoring old shepherd's wagons, and building new ones from scratch (if money is truly no object). A search on "sheep wagons for sale" or "shepherds wagons for sale" will turn up a few. Some have relatively modern running gear, with auto or truck tires. I even saw one that appeared to have a car hitch, so it was probably built for highway speeds, so probably not of interest...

YES VERY good i have looked at them intently and i like them.there is even a company today that makes a modern version then i looked at the weight and price.then i looked at the wagon i have in my yard, hmmm.it would be so easy to do????? nope heavy heavy.i have talked briefly with a man on here that said he would consider selling me an fiberstream 16 ft and as heavy as they are that would be a lot lighter than what i would build.i am just pretty sure that some kind of egg is the way to go.the rear bath front dinette/bed and windows near the corner is perfect for me.
what are your thoughts on a blog or sponsorship of some kind??
by the way i really enjoy your input.thank you jim

[Rich]

Jim, how heavy are the sheep trailers you have looked at? I didnt think they would be that heavy. The first time I seen them they seemed like just the ticket for hunting camp. I really like how they go on a standard running gear and I think they would fit your needs alot better. Pulling a camper with a fore cart would be a jerky and bouncy because of where they connect to the cart. I have a pioneer cart and I dont think I would pull my camper with it if you had a gun to my head, thats how rough I think it would end up being.

The other thought I had was maybe you could have your welder friend make your fore cart into a 4 wheeled cart, similar to what poineer sells for power units. http://www.drivehorses.com/Products/4-whee...drive%20PTO.jpg In your case though, going off the fore cart, make it center articulating like the industrial end loaders. Have the back part of the cart 5X5 for your hay and grain storage and then the trailer could hook to that and it would ride alot better. If you have a coupling welded on your cart, a pin could be pulled, removing the trailing section. That would make it easy to go back to the origional pioneer cart when you are done with your trip.

As for sponsers, if your trip has a goal like a coast to coast trip or cancer awairness or something, I would bet a grain company would donate grain or something, maybe you could even arange to pick it up at co-ops along the way. Just start your blog now so they see what they will be getting for the donation. If you have a good blog, frequently updated with where you are, I bet local farmers who see it would offer you some hay as you go past. Sounds like an interesting trip.

[Michele B]

Hello, Jim! Welcome!

When I lived in Flagstaff, Arizona, I met a gentleman who called himself "Bob Sundown". When I met him (back in about 1994) he was 74 years old. For decades, he traveled the road in a wooden gypsy wagon pulled by a team of two donkeys. He'd trade up to mules in areas with larger passes (he had a friend who would haul the replacement teams out).

I have some fantastic photos of Mr. Sundown, as when I first saw him, he was camping out at the Coconino County Fairgrounds, and I'd ridden my own horse over there.

If I recall, he traveled with a dog, and he had a few layer hens with him. Every town he visited, he seemed to know folks--he tended to stop for breaks in visible areas, made money by taking donations for photo ops...and welcomed folks to hang out and talk. I arranged to come back with my truck and get his 5-gallon water jugs filled for him; got him some feed for his horses and a few other minor errands.

First time I'd ever heard of him, he was on COPS...the officers (actually, it was also Flagstaff, filmed the year before I first met him) pulled over to check on him, and in an aside to the camera said that they looked after him when he came through...

Last I heard, old Bob had retired from the road to Salmon, Idaho. I have no idea if he's still living, and doubt it's his legal name, but you can see about looking him up.

Last month, in front of the grocery store in Thompson Falls, Montana, another home-made gypsy wagon with a team of Belgians was set up near the parking lot. A big burly guy was tending to them; turns out they're a wandering logging team.

Both of these characters have used highways for travel, though it is dangerous. Neither had continuous support teams.

Both draw a lot of attention, understandably.

I think that with the right planning, you could do a lot with your adventure plans. Get a blog and a PayPal account, and solicit donations; contact your favorite non-profit and see about an awareness partnership, but be prepared to sacrifice a little personal freedom for appearances, as well as having to be on good behavior when in public view!

Feel free to PM me if you want. I'm savvy with creative fund raising and public relations, and I'd love to see you GO FOR IT!

[Jim Manley]

Jim, how heavy are the sheep trailers you have looked at? I didnt think they would be that heavy. The first time I seen them they seemed like just the ticket for hunting camp. I really like how they go on a standard running gear and I think they would fit your needs alot better. Pulling a camper with a fore cart would be a jerky and bouncy because of where they connect to the cart. I have a pioneer cart and I dont think I would pull my camper with it if you had a gun to my head, thats how rough I think it would end up being.

The other thought I had was maybe you could have your welder friend make your fore cart into a 4 wheeled cart, similar to what poineer sells for power units. http://www.drivehorses.com/Products/4-whee...drive%20PTO.jpg In your case though, going off the fore cart, make it center articulating like the industrial end loaders. Have the back part of the cart 5X5 for your hay and grain storage and then the trailer could hook to that and it would ride alot better. If you have a coupling welded on your cart, a pin could be pulled, removing the trailing section. That would make it easy to go back to the origional pioneer cart when you are done with your trip.

As for sponsers, if your trip has a goal like a coast to coast trip or cancer awairness or something, I would bet a grain company would donate grain or something, maybe you could even arange to pick it up at co-ops along the way. Just start your blog now so they see what they will be getting for the donation. If you have a good blog, frequently updated with where you are, I bet local farmers who see it would offer you some hay as you go past. Sounds like an interesting trip.

definately food for thought.i dont own a pioneer and wont they are just to high doller.we will build one.i would like you advice on this.please pm or e mail me.i think the trailer tounge should rest on a ball in the middle of the axle??
not a pin hitch???

[Jim Manley]

Hello, Jim! Welcome!

When I lived in Flagstaff, Arizona, I met a gentleman who called himself "Bob Sundown". When I met him (back in about 1994) he was 74 years old. For decades, he traveled the road in a wooden gypsy wagon pulled by a team of two donkeys. He'd trade up to mules in areas with larger passes (he had a friend who would haul the replacement teams out).

I have some fantastic photos of Mr. Sundown, as when I first saw him, he was camping out at the Coconino County Fairgrounds, and I'd ridden my own horse over there.

If I recall, he traveled with a dog, and he had a few layer hens with him. Every town he visited, he seemed to know folks--he tended to stop for breaks in visible areas, made money by taking donations for photo ops...and welcomed folks to hang out and talk. I arranged to come back with my truck and get his 5-gallon water jugs filled for him; got him some feed for his horses and a few other minor errands.

First time I'd ever heard of him, he was on COPS...the officers (actually, it was also Flagstaff, filmed the year before I first met him) pulled over to check on him, and in an aside to the camera said that they looked after him when he came through...

Last I heard, old Bob had retired from the road to Salmon, Idaho. I have no idea if he's still living, and doubt it's his legal name, but you can see about looking him up.

Last month, in front of the grocery store in Thompson Falls, Montana, another home-made gypsy wagon with a team of Belgians was set up near the parking lot. A big burly guy was tending to them; turns out they're a wandering logging team.

Both of these characters have used highways for travel, though it is dangerous. Neither had continuous support teams.

Both draw a lot of attention, understandably.

I think that with the right planning, you could do a lot with your adventure plans. Get a blog and a PayPal account, and solicit donations; contact your favorite non-profit and see about an awareness partnership, but be prepared to sacrifice a little personal freedom for appearances, as well as having to be on good behavior when in public view!

Feel free to PM me if you want. I'm savvy with creative fund raising and public relations, and I'd love to see you GO FOR IT!

warms my heart right up better thana cup of coffe on a cold day

[Yvon Chayer]

Look this, i have this two pictures on my computer