How big, function vs ease of use??

[Ed Calkins]

We are close to getting our first RV of any type and have decided on a travel trailer for many reasons. We have many years of experience towing boats of many sizes so the towing part is not an issue to us. However, we are somewhat confused by what size to go with; the age old trade off between accomodations and ease of use. (it exists in boats as well as travel trailers) We definately want something small. Our requirements are a bed we can leave set up that is at least a double size and some small dinette or seating area that exists when the bed is set up. We also like a seperate shower but can do with a wet-bath configuration if need be. Our leading contender at the moment is the Big Foot 21' and it is the largest we will consider. But, I also am considering a smaller trailer (like Casita or Burro or ??). I have no issue with the length of the BigFoot or the weight (my gmc Yukon has a tow rating of 8600lbs) and have towed boats much longer across the country. However having a box 8.4 feet wide and 9 feet+ behind me seems like a hassle and limiting in some cases as opposed to a narrower lower trailer. Have any of you experienced having similar thoughts and experiences that have influenced such a decision? Thks in advance for your comments, Ed

[Donna D.]

Welcome to FiberglassRV Ed... we're glad you found us! I'm certain others will chime in on your request for info, but I see you're located in Northern California. You MAY want to take a drive up the Oregon coast for the Oregon Gathering (that's coming up in a couple of weeks) and view a large number of trailers for yourself. It will be a great opportunity to see what will be best for you.

Click on this link for more details: Oregon Gathering, be sure to click on the sticky at the top for the particulars.

[Lee Hillsgrove]

I had the same requirements as you, Ed, and decided that a 16' Casita was best for me. Your tow vehicle could definitely accept the greater weight of a 17'. Look at their admittedly sparse website and check out the Freedom or Spirit floor plans.

Otherwise, a side dinette Scamp would offer a similar floor plan. There are probably others, but that's what comes to my mind right away.

Welcome!

[Per Walthinsen]

Welcome to the forum, Ed!

We've had our Burro for seven years, and you raise some pertinent questions. It is 90 inches wide (exterior) and extension mirrors on our Odyssey did a passable job. I consider the extra width a compromise I'm happy to make, because the interior is significantly wider, making a decided difference in bed size, dinette legroom, bathroom size, and the ability of two people to move around each other.

Bed size in the rear is about 86 inches across and 54-56 inches wide. Depending on how tall you are that could be significant (ask Roger).

Because we are keeping the trailer indefinitely, and because we have taken a couple of cross-country trips, I bit the financial bullet and installed a rea-view camera on the trailer. It works fine, and it keeps a wide-angle view of the road behind. Nobody can sneak up on you and suddenly pull out, nor is it possible to be blissfully unaware of the long line behind the trailer. Actually the stock Honda mirrors are pretty good, but the camera completes the picture.

Aside from the double-hull design I consider the extra width a significant advantage over most of the other models on the market. Burro must be gotten used; only the "Eggcamper" uses that idea currently, and it is only starting to be produced as far as I am aware of.

[Pete Dumbleton]

Sounds to me like you will need something big, perhaps bigger than all but the biggest Egg. Getting to an RV show or a gathering of eggs is an important first step; just getting in and out of a series of different sizes will trigger some first impressions to help you decide on size.

I'll give you some advice that you perhaps already know as owners of multiple boats -- The first, or second, or even third, wasn't the right one, so don't buy anything new until you have owned and used a few used ones -- That way, you learn a lot without experiencing the economic depreciation that occurs when a new trailer rolls onto the pavement and becomes a used one!

[Lainey]

Hi Ed, welcome! This is a great group of people and everyone will go out of their way to help you out

I completely understand your dilemma! My next egg will ideally have a fulltime double bed, a fulltime bunk, and still all the other good stuff, but I will not go up to a 21’ size. (I'm going to start a new thread about my perfect egg in General Chat so I don't hijack yours)

I guess what it boils down to is it’s all about finding the best balance for ourselves, given the options available.

Pete’s advice is always right on, he makes a great point about trying out a few older models before taking the hit on a new unit. Always astute Pete!

[Roger H]

Hi Ed!

I probably hold the record for going through the most trailers in the shortest time, and have had them from 13' through 34'. The "perfect" trailer varies during your trailering life as your needs and wants change. Your requirements are pretty loose, and most everything from a 16' Scamp through a 21' Bigfoot would meet them as you've described them. I'm with Donna... I think a road trip to the Oregon gathering would fill the picture for you very quickly.

I settled on a new Bigfoot 25' because of the walk-around queen and stand-up shower. Those were important to me because I'm 6'5" and I didn't want to scrimp on comfort any more. For us, the 25' is the ideal combination of live-ability and tow-ability. It's only a few dollars more than the 21', is only a few pounds heavier than the 21', is no more of a chore to tow than the 21', and has significantly more living space inside.

Roger

[Lisa M.]

Hello,

My requirements were similar to yours. I visited a rally at San Antonio Lake which made it possible for me to see a number of different makes and models. Following that trip, I decided a 17' Casita Spirit would best fit my needs. It has a double bed and a side dinette that can double as a single bed. It is narrow, so it can be difficult for two people to move around in at the same time, but on the other hand, I don't need mirror extensions and I've found it very light and easy to tow (as a first-timer). I'm only 5'6'', so the length of the bed isn't a factor, but a person 6' and taller would probably be uncomfortable. As was mentioned before, try to visit a rally or the Oregon Gathering where you can see a variety of eggs. It really is the best way to go. Good luck with your search!

[Frederick L. Simson]

We definitely want something small.

After moving up to a 16' Fiber Stream from a 13' Compact Jr., I considered moving up again (briefly) to a 21'Bigfoot. Like you, I think the 21 footer would be the largest I would consider. But it IS tall and bulky compared to the 16' and 17' offerings out there. Unlike you, I would have to get a bigger tow vehicle as well. After counting my blessings (and my savings), I decided to stand pat. I'm still working, and I don't get to spend longer than 2 weeks at a time in the trailer. I also like the uniqueness of the no-longer-made Fiber Stream. Repairs are a labor of love to keep it functioning, much like an old Studebaker.

[Ed Calkins]

Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts and experiences (the more the merrier). I want to respond to a few of the comments but they are all meaningful to us and much appreciated.
1) The Oregon Gathering sounds very interesting and useful, we have schedule conflicts but if they can be resolved it is possible.
2) On the Burro, it was mentioned the bed is "54-56" wide and 86" across and doesn't work well for those 6' or over", not sure what this means. Can't the bed be used with the 86" dimension as the length?
3) Also on the Burro, "Burro must be gotten used", does this mean you can't buy them new, they still have a website?
4) Is "Eggcamper" a new brand/manufacturer?
5) On depreciation of new trailer vs the advice to try 3 or 4 used ones first. I understand completely, however, now that I am 65 years old with a large family and a couple of acres to maintain etc. etc. I find time to be my most precious commodity. We will have to work hard to schedule time to use an RV. I have spent most of my life buying only used vehicles, boats, etc. and restored some that were ready for the junk yard; those wise decisions now allow me to buy something new or close to new --- I don't want to sound rude or rich (I am not either) but I don't want to deal with seeking out and fixing up "older trailers". Of course if we stumble on to something close to new that would be a bonus. So in summary, I hope to use your experiences and our own intuition to get it close to right the first time -- and hopefully it will be close enough to work well.
6) On the 25' vs 21' BigFoot, again I understand completely. That 25' floor plan is killer! A close friend who has had lots of trailers also said the 25 is the way to go. The 21' would be more than sufficient and easier to store and get in and out of places---at least that is our current thinking as we are paranoid about letting the accomodation quest lead us to something that we find too troublesome to use.

We want to drive around the US and visit a daughter in Virginia etc. and are still thinking about the Casita/small Airstream decision vs the BigFoot full width type product. The width and visibility are an issue, the camera application is interesting. Thanks again for your comments, Ed

[Per Walthinsen]

Ed, I could have been a bit more clear in what I said: We sleep crosswise in the Burro, so we have about 86" length available. This requires me to step over my wife to get to the bathroom. At the age of 66 that is not a problem, but some modification may be required 30 or 40 years from now.

The Burro organization ceased production in 2000 or 2001, so used is now the only way to go. Only in the last few years of production did they make the "wide-body" version, so the older ones were narrower. The Eggcamper is a new outfit out of Indiana which has adopted the double-hull construction (the benefits of which are many). Time will tell how well they do, too early for me to tell.

[David and Nancy]

Ed: I went from a 16' Scamp to a 17' Casita to a 21' Bigfoot over the past five years. The Scamp was an old "fixer-upper" with no amenities that we kept only a year. I liked it mainly as a hunting camp that I could take into the woods without worrying about beating it up. We then went to a new Casita which seemed really luxurious in comparison. To me it was absolutely ideal for 2 people. The ease of parking it, getting into gas stations, making u-turns is amazing for a fully functional RV. That being said, the interior dimensions ultimately became an issue for my wife who likes her space. Also we recently moved nearer family members and wanted to occassionally bring an elderly parent along on a trip. I found a used 21' Bigfoot on the internet about six months ago. After the two smaller trailers, it seems huge. That notion is quickly dispelled when we camp near the truly big rigs. We are often still the smallest RV in the park. The downsides are the issues you are already aware of. The Casita was not wider than my truck which makes it way easier to maneuver - especially backing into a tight space. Single axle trailers are a little more responsive during backing maneuvers as well. The extra height and width of the Bigfoot catch a lot more wind resistance as does the more squared-off body design. Fuel consumption is significantly affected. When towing, I just loved the Casita. After setting up camp, the Bigfoot is a beautiful thing. If I could afford it, I would have kept all the trailers, they all had there particular plusses. Since I can only have one, the Bigfoot is it. Luckily for me, I have so far prevented my wife from finding out about 25' Bigfoots.

You will need to figure out what makes you and you wife comfortable based on your personal space requirements. Ideally, you go camping to spend time outdoors. People with big, comfortable RV's tend to sit inside and watch TV most of the time. May as well have stayed home. If you camp in places where it is fun to be outside, you will have all the space you need.

Wecome to the forum and keep us posted. There is a wealth of knowledge in the many fine people here.

[Pete Dumbleton]

Burro is long gone but their Spirit persists as a phantom website. It is highly recommended that cash not be sent to their address....

[Per Walthinsen]

.....but cash is accepted here if you feel the need to support Burro..........

[CarolnJim]

I know you are interested in a trailer with a bed that is up all the time, and a separate dinette, but we sure love our Casita. The Liberty has several ways of sleeping.

We decided on the 17' Liberty model - more room during the day and twin beds or king at night. You can also keep the rear bed up all the time and use the small dinette in front of the bed. Takes just a minute to change the couches during the day into the twin beds, which is the way we use the trailer.

By the way, we are seniors too, and find this trailer to fit our needs perfectly. We usually have 6 or 7 people in our trailer, in the evening, eating or playing cards.

[Gary Lynch]

It all depends on your definition of comfort and ease of use. If you can tow a 21' or even a 25' they certainly give you more livable space which means less stress to me. But if you spend a lot of your time outside a 17' may work. I have a 17' and enjoy it very much but we are outside most all the time. If I were to spend a lot of time inside and be on a prolonged journey for months, had a larger tow vehicle and $$ was not an issue, a 21' - 25' Bigfoot would be the ticket hands down. A 17' trailer is just large enough to 'work' ok but by no means do they have generous space in comparison to larger trailers. If you can live on a 24' sail boat, then a 17' would seem in proportion.

[Ed Calkins]

It all depends on your definition of comfort and ease of use. If you can tow a 21' or even a 25' they certainly give you more livable space which means less stress to me. But if you spend a lot of your time outside a 17' may work. I have a 17' and enjoy it very much but we are outside most all the time. If I were to spend a lot of time inside and be on a prolonged journey for months, had a larger tow vehicle and $$ was not an issue, a 21' - 25' Bigfoot would be the ticket hands down. A 17' trailer is just large enough to 'work' ok but by no means do they have generous space in comparison to larger trailers. If you can live on a 24' sail boat, then a 17' would seem in proportion.

Nice clarification of a difficult thing to advise on and it truly is "in the eyes of the beholder". There are a lot of pluses with the BigFoot (which would likely be the 21) including that we have a couple of acres on a lake and lots of visitors and having a year around guest cabin would be nice -- I have a shop building it would fit in. And I think we would spend a lot of time inside if we travelled around the US as planned as there would be times with less than ideal weather. However it does seem nice to have something about 7' wide to tow rather than 8'4". Airstream has a new series that has some 19 to 22 foot models that I think are only about 7.5' wide but my wife thinks they are ugly and I heard the aluminum skins are somewhat fragile (hail damage etc.) also they are even more expensive than a BigFoot. Anyway, good perspective Gary.

[Roger H]

Ed, Here's a thread you might find interesting:

Two Foot-itis

Roger

[Ed Calkins]

Ed, Here's a thread you might find interesting:

Two Foot-itis

Roger

Very interesting, thanks for the lead. Roger, it sounds like you have had a lot of experience towing a wide range of trailer sizes. I am leaning heavily towards a BigFoot 21' which I think will be less than 5000 lbs when loaded. I have had conflicting advice on whether to use a load leveling/anti-sway hitch or not. I have towed similar weight boats without such a hitch but maybe the travel trailer characteristics require one?? I will be using a GMC Yukon Denali which has a tow rating of 8600 lbs I believe. Also I have been told (by the anti-antisway advisors) that you have to unhook such a device when backing and maneuvering -- is that true? Thks, Ed

[Roger H]

Ed, you can expect your trailer, dry but "as equipped" to weigh in at just under 5,000 lbs. The "as equipped" is significant. My 25RQ has a base "average" weight of 4660, but mine "as equipped" from the factory is 5350. The 21RB starts at about 3700 lbs so you can add another 900 or so pounds for options. With your "stuff" and propane in it, you'll realistically be at 5400 to 5600 lbs without water in the tanks.

The advertised "average" tongue weight on the 21RB is 350 lbs, but with 80 lbs of propane plus the propane tank weight, and "stuff" in the trailer it'll be another hundred pounds heavier.

FWIW, I used a Reese Dual-Cam when towing my 25RB with a 7,000 lb Excursion with a 10,000 lb tow rating. I would recommend nothing less than a Dual-Cam or Equal-i-zer WDH/sway control hitch for your tow with a 21' Bigfoot. If you already have a WDH, then you can get by with it, but I'd definately recommend a friction sway control device to compliment it.

Roger