Is this a deep cycle? Sufficient charger

[WildBirder]

Having just purchased my boler the ad stated it came with a deep cycle battery. I can't find any indication of "DC" on the battery. There is also no group #. Web search for the brand/type is not helping.

Also is this charger sufficient for the battery or a group 24 DC battery?

Motomaster Eliminator Intelligent Battery Charger 6A/4A/2A | Canadian Tire

What's the advantage of the pricier ($150) charger of the same brand? Besides digital read out they appear to have the same features.

Thanks
Mark

[WildBirder]

ok, I think I'm clueing in. The smaller charger delivers lower amps and will take longer to charge?

[Frederick L. Simson]

If it indicates "Cold Cranking Amps" then it is NOT a Deep Cycle battery.

[ThomasE]

I concur that is a car battery since it lists CCA. Deep cycle batteries should have some kind amp hour (aH) rating, not a CCA rating.

[Normand Choiniere]

As far as the charger is concerned, this is the way to go :

CTEK Multi-use 3300 3.3A Battery Charger | Canadian Tire

Just connect it to the battery and forget it but don't forget to keep your Boler connected year around (especially in winter and even ion summer) to a 110 v. source. This will keep your battery in great shape for many years. This is an outstanding intelligent charger. Forget about bells and whistles. 3.3 amps is fast enough.

If you want to know your battery condition all the time you can spend a little more money with a battery status monitor like this one :

Solar, Boat, Battery Indicator, meter 12 - 24 Volt | eBay

Your battery is a car battery. It may be in good condition. This is not the best choice but if it still is in good condition and if you install permanently a good intelligent charger may be this will reveal itself as satisfactory for your needs. Just try it before discarding it.

[Ed Harris]

Originally Posted by Normand Choiniere

As far as the charger is concerned, this is the way to go :

CTEK Multi-use 3300 3.3A Battery Charger | Canadian Tire

Just connect it to the battery and forget it but don't forget to keep your Boler connected year around (especially in winter and even ion summer) to a 110 v. source. This will keep your battery in great shape for many years. This is an outstanding intelligent charger. Forget about bells and whistles. 3.3 amps is fast enough.

I don't understand how you can possibly make a statement like this regarding battery charging without knowing more about the owners situation?

There is a reason there are Converters for RV use ad daily use of a trailers mixed 120vac and 12vdc loads with battery charging as but one function is why they exist.

It seems a dramatic over simplification to describe a simple slow charger as "this is the way to go".

Even if he only wants to charge the battery and not provide 12vdc for normal use why would you assume that trickle or slow charging is better for someone than quick charging without knowing their needs first?

I just don't see how this helps and to me this is not good information without some context and may serve to confuse the original poster.

If I missed something here that might give some more context then I apologize for this rather strong comment but if I am correct feel free to tell me how you have decided on this recommendation?

[GeorgeR]

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

If it indicates "Cold Cranking Amps" then it is NOT a Deep Cycle battery.

I know that the common wisdom is that deep cycle batteries don’t have cranking amps listed but my deep cycle battery has cold cranking amps posted. See the picture here - NG-27 Exide Nautilus Marine Deep Cycle Battery at Menards. Lifeline Co. also lists cold cranking amps on deep cycle batteries. Lifeline Batteries - Marine & RV Deep Cycle Batteries , perhaps this common wisdom should be challenged. I found that comparing weights of the same type batteries is a good indication that Pb plates are indeed thicker. For example Costco 27 series weighs about 50lb and GN27 Exide (Camping World -Exide® Stowaway® Deep Cycle) is 65lb.

George.

[WildBirder]

Thanks for the help so far everyone. I'm on a steep learning curve and I'm also trying to look towards the future where there might be a solar panel involved. My electrical needs are very minimal. I think I will stick with a 12V system running off the battery (a new Deep Cycle battery). No inverter. I'll be almost strictly boon-docking. Only needing power for some light in the evening and perhaps a recharge on the iphone etc. If and when I do get shore power I'll keep the wiring for the kitchenette AC outlet. I do like the CTEK model for size. It could be easily mounted next to the battery and wired to shore power. Normand, I think you're right this is all I need. i don't think I need a quick charger. Ed's point is very valid as with an inverter, more power use and more traveling one would be very handy.

One more question. Does anyone know what the 6/3/2 on the battery means then? I'm just going to use this one until it dies then get my deep cycle. If it dies mid trip I'll be fine as I'm originally tent camper. All this power, light and storage still seems like luxury.

[rufus thirteen]

Originally Posted by Ed Harris

I don't understand how you can possibly make a statement like this regarding battery charging without knowing more about the owners situation?

There is a reason there are Converters for RV use ad daily use of a trailers mixed 120vac and 12vdc loads with battery charging as but one function is why they exist.

It seems a dramatic over simplification to describe a simple slow charger as "this is the way to go".

Even if he only wants to charge the battery and not provide 12vdc for normal use why would you assume that trickle or slow charging is better for someone than quick charging without knowing their needs first?

I just don't see how this helps and to me this is not good information without some context and may serve to confuse the original poster.

If I missed something here that might give some more context then I apologize for this rather strong comment but if I am correct feel free to tell me how you have decided on this recommendation?

The dumb "Converter" that ships with most RV's is a battery killer, that does not charge quickly or well. It's as if they want you to camp only where you can plug in, or run gennie all day Your battery will be undercharged when low, and slightly overcharged when charged (which will take days if not weeks). A smart converter/charger with multi-stage charging will help.

For storing, a trickle charger will work fine to preserve your battery for next season. If you are cycling your deep cycle batteries (to 50% only, right?), then you want a multi-stage charger that can bulk charge at 20% of the rated battery bank capacity (if you have a 12v/100A battery, a 20A charge is good) so that you can go from 50% to 85% charged in about 2 hours. 85% to 100% will take longer, sometimes much much longer, but not so much current (why having some solar panels is good).

If people aren't willing (or it's not possible) to increase their battery capacity and charging systems, they should concentrate on using as little battery power as possible.

A battery that says "Start" or "Marine" listed is unlikely to be a thick plate Deep Cycle model, and will not last as long on house duty as a real Deep Cycle Group 24 or Group 27. I have started engines from Deep Cycle batteries just fine, but they have unimpressive CCA for this application in very cold climates.

cheers.

[Ed Harris]

OK First off I never even mentioned an Inverter in my post?
I was talking about a Converter which does exactly the opposite of an Inverter.
Kind of a important distinction to learn!

Second while a cheap converter can do harm or fail to provide proper charging and conditioning to a battery it is in no way mandatory that this is the case?
There are better converters than others and modern converters can feature the exact same "Smart" multi-stage charging/conditioning as any external charger.

I just do not understand how someone can make such general suggestions to someone needing help before they have learned more about their needs and qualified the job first.

This is exactly what I posted before and if you had bothered to read my post I think it would make more sense?

The same solution is not the correct one for each user.

Now that the O.P. has chimed back in with the kinds of details I was hoping to learn it is easier to suggest something appropriate to his needs.

Now that he has told us that indeed he plans on very minimal use and gearing his loads toward that approach I can say that maintaining the battery with a low power charger seems sufficient.
I do think a modern charger around 10 amp or so would be almost ideal if it is one that can supply a steady 10 amps if needed to run the loads while plugged in and charging should that need arise too.
Not all chargers can also act as power supplies/Converters while charging but many can and this adds to their utility for sure.

[Ed Harris]

Also I think the 6/3/2 designation on the battery refers to the warranty on the battery somehow?

I think it refers to the years they say the battery will deliver certain starting power.

I have seen batteries listed with a number of months mostly and this is what they mean with those so I am really just guessing so ......?

[WildBirder]

Hi again,

Ed, You're correct about the numbers being for warranty. Finally found that out. It would help tons if the folks at Canadian Tire and Walmart new anything about their product. I guess I shouldn't expect this as they're far from specialty shops. However the miss information they keep giving was crippling my learning curve. If you don't know, don't make it up Heading to "Battery World" today as neither of the two local box stores stock true deep cycle batteries anyway.

I understand the inverter/converter difference. I was just volunteering extra information to fill out my needs. Good point on charging and runny at the same time.

Cheers,
Mark

[Daniel A.]

Mark when you replace your battery it might be good to look at 6 volt instead of 12 volt, they have much better amp ratings.

[GeorgeR]

Originally Posted by Daniel A.

Mark when you replace your battery it might be good to look at 6 volt instead of 12 volt, they have much better amp ratings.

You probably meant that 6V battery have better AmpHours capacity rating not Amps which is just current measure. Most appliances are 12V so you really need two 6V batteries connected in series to get 12V.
George.

[WildBirder]

I've read somewhere on here that the 6V (in series) get better ampHours due to the fact they are larger (height) than an equivalent 12V battery (group?). More ampHours can be achieved simply by a larger group size or the taller 6V. I've also read that 6V are designed for more frequent and deeper discharges. I'm heading out now and will give feed back from the "professionals".

Cheers,
Mark

[The Minimalist]

The best standard for comparing batteries for our uses is Reserve Capacity, which is a measurement of how many minutes a new battery will carry a 25 amp load at 80 degrees F and maintain a terminal voltage equal to or higher than 1.20 volts per cell.

Some battery companies are now providing HUP (Hours of Useable Power) charts for their batteries, which gives hours of use at various loads; 5, 15, and 25 amps for example. This information is listed in the battery catalogs if available, not on the battery.

Any manufactureres battery catalog will indicate Reserve Capacity, Amp Hours, Cold Cranking Amps and sometimes Marine Cranking Amps (CA or MCA) for each battery listed. All of these are calculated using BCI (Battery Council International) standards. They are all good measurements, but you need to know the specific conditions for each test to know which one provides the information useful to your needs.

For our use, I think Reserve Capacity best fits the bill.

[Daniel A.]

Originally Posted by GeorgeR

You probably meant that 6V battery have better AmpHours capacity rating not Amps which is just current measure. Most appliances are 12V so you really need two 6V batteries connected in series to get 12V.
George.

So right George.

[WildBirder]

So here's what I've learned today. 6V batteries don't just have higher ampHours due to size but have much thicker plates than standard deep cycle. Trojan batteries have started putting ampHour per amp load on the battery labelling. I didn't even realize that was an issue. (thx Clif). AmpHour per dollar, 6V is the better bargain.

My math at the specific store:
12V=$1.65 per ampHour
6V=$1.40 per ampHour

However after pricing $160 each for two 6V and the $380 Xantrex 40A charger they said would be necessary to fully charge the thicker plated 6Vs I'll be sticking with a 12V deep cycle. The weight (thicker plates) and size of the two six volts was a deciding factor as well. I can get a 12V and charger between $200 and $250 apposed to a whopping $700

I realize that shopping around I could probably find better prices and that they were trying to "up sell" but it's more the comparison that struck me.

Beyond the prices, they were very informative and helpful. I haven't purchased yet as it's been hinted that christmas is coming but I will buy there before I go back to Wally World or CT.
Should be an easy gift to guess at under the tree.

[Perry J]

My old battery charger finally died last year.
I bought a Solid state charger at Pep Boys that has seperate charge settings for wet cell, AGM and Gel batteries, 2/10/15 amp charge selection, automatic float charging, battey reconditioning setting, alternator check ability and built in automatic temperature compensation.
All for around $50.00.
You can buy a more than adequate group 27 deep cycle battery at Wal Mart for around $90.00.
I would rather spend my money on a trip than needless expensive hardware.
Spend the money you save on a solar array.
John

[WildBirder]

Originally Posted by Perry J

My old battery charger finally died last year.
I bought a Solid state charger at Pep Boys that has seperate charge settings for wet cell, AGM and Gel batteries, 2/10/15 amp charge selection, automatic float charging, battey reconditioning setting, alternator check ability and built in automatic temperature compensation.
All for around $50.00.
You can buy a more than adequate group 27 deep cycle battery at Wal Mart for around $90.00.
I would rather spend my money on a trip than needless expensive hardware.
Spend the money you save on a solar array.
John

My thoughts exactly. I'll have to check out that charge as I haven't seen one that does all of that for that price. Do you run a converter? Can the charger power your DC system and charge at the same time?

Here's to saving the moola