Leak

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Kip in Ga.

Got this thing pretty much in pieces now. The only things left in place is the housing that sticks through the roof opening. The smoke cover is still on it. Removed everything in hopes of seeing where the water is coming in.

Here is a problem. There are approximately 16 rivits holding it to the roof.
It appears that the rivits are expanded into wood. It appears that they drilled the holes into the roof and into a wood frame around the opening.
Then inserted the rivits and popped them into place.

I can drill the heads off the rivits but the rivit bodies will still be in place and not likely going to be pulled out as they are expanded in the wood.
If that is true, a lot of new holes would need to be drilled in the outside flange and roof.

Thanks for the link!

KIp

Over on the Airstream forums they routinely replace rivets with new ones, albeit bigger ones perhaps but no new holes are drilled. If you drilled the rivet out and used the existing hole with another rivet? I did not think that rivets expanded out but just at each end or head, so the hole diameter should be the same you may need a washer on the inside head if it compressed the wood. I thought the new fan came with screws to screw into the roof? Maybe you could use bolts that the trim will cover inside?

[Kip in Ga.]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Over on the Airstream forums they routinely replace rivets with new ones, albeit bigger ones perhaps but no new holes are drilled. If you drilled the rivet out and used the existing hole with another rivet? I did not think that rivets expanded out but just at each end or head, so the hole diameter should be the same you may need a washer on the inside head if it compressed the wood. I thought the new fan came with screws to screw into the roof? Maybe you could use bolts that the trim will cover inside?

Many moon ago we purchased a used Argosy trailer by Airstream. Had no experience with Rivits until then. With that type of trailer I learned pretty fast. We've had aluminum boats requiring repairs and additions and I've built stuff using rivits. They work great when used properly.

Realizing that you know about rivits, so this info is just for anyone that may not know how a "POP" rivit works.
A rivit is essentually 2 parts. A hollow tube with a flat head on one end, and a solid shaft with a ball on one end. The solid shaft goes through the hollow tube with the ball at the far end. The rivit tool pushes against the head and draws the shaft and ball through the tube which expands it.
Then the ball reaches the back side of the material the rivit is in, and the tool keeps pulling. The shaft eventually "POPS" off the ball. Leaving the rivit head on one side and the shaft that was expanded by the ball on the other. When done properly it makes a tight connection that isn't likely to work loose like a screw might.

Of course the traditional method of a good rivit job is for the hole to be just big enough for the hollow rivit body body to slip through. The rivit needs to be long enough to slip through both pieces of material with a little sticking through for the ball to expand. . The rivit tool pulls the shaft with the built on ball through the hollow tube, expanding the tube on the back side until it is too large to slip through the material and tight against it. The shaft breaks off leaving the ball inside the hollow tube and against the back side of the job. If the material is soft, tiny washers can be used for the ball to push against.

To remove a rivit. The head can be drilled until it breaks loose from the hollow tube. Then the rivit can be pushed through and it falls out the back side. Leaving the hole ready for another rivit if desired.

Pictures 1-4 of the link FanTastic Vent - How To Install shows the wood box built to accept the vent/fan on a conventional trailer. After removing all the trim and stuff inside the trailer I see wood. Can't see much as the Rat Fur is covering it. Apparently that box on the Casitas is glued to the underside of the fiberglass "roof", and serves the same function of strength and necessary thickness as on a conventional trailer.

It "Appears" that Casita chose to drill holes through the FG and into the wood. Inserted rivits and expanded the ball/tube into the wood, rather than going all the way through and tightening from the back side. If that is the case, then removing the rivit heads will leave the tubes in the wood with nowhere to push them to because the ball is larger than the hole. They likely won't pull out because the ball has created a cavern bigger than the hole and it won't pull through. Even being lucky enough to drill exactly in the middle of the shaft, as the bit bites, it will likely cause the shaft to spin in place rather than just going away. But, most likely, the drill bit would slip off the tube and drill beside it. Creating a hole that is not in alignment with the holes in the outer fan flange.

Choice are limited, but the most likely would be to drill new holes for everything and use screws. Of course that would leave 16 rivit holes and 16 screw heads to seal.

If real lucky the wood frame would have a grove cut full lungth. A piece of metal glued on top of the wood and the metal glued to the roof. Hole drilled from the top just deep enough to penetrate through the metal, ahd the rivit could be removed in the traditional manor. Just got a feeling, that ain't going to happen.

So trying desperately to figure exactly where the water is seeping in and it not be necessary to remove the whole thing. . I did find something interesting. It looks as though the dome has been replaced. Something may have gone wrong there. Also found that the excessive silicone is all the way up to the dome hinge and touching it in several places. Don't know if that could cause water to stand there long enough to "wick" through the hinge. I'm cutting the excess away as a first measure. Then I'm going to build a dam around the front of the fan and fill it with water to try and establish if the water is in fact seeping under the front sealers. If not, It is going to rain on it for a while from the water hose.

Hopefully with me inside and someone else "raining" I can spot the leak.

Got to find out what chemical will remove silicone residue and investigate the Dicor and Eternabond products. Wishful thinking?

Thanks,
Kip

[Carol H]

Kip when I install the Fantastic fan on my Scamp the rivits only went through from the top into the fiberglass - no wood. I ended up making simple wood trim to match the other escape hatch on the trailer and that is just attached the fan with screws - the screws do not go into the roof on mine.

Sounds like on your trailer they added extra wood on the underside of the Fiberglass - if thats the case and you want to replace as was, can you not just make another piece of wood to replace the one they used so it takes the rescrewing? -if im reading this correctly it is covered so it doesnt need to be a real good match.

[Kip in Ga.]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Kip when I install the Fantastic fan on my Scamp the rivits only went through from the top into the fiberglass - no wood. I ended up making simple wood trim to match the other escape hatch on the trailer and that is just attached the fan with screws - the screws do not go into the roof on mine.

Sounds like on your trailer they added extra wood on the underside of the Fiberglass - if thats the case and you want to replace as was, can you not just make another piece of wood to replace the one they used so it takes the rescrewing? -if im reading this correctly it is covered so it doesnt need to be a real good match.

Carol,

Thanks you your reply. Yesterday afternoon (Thursday) I pealed back enough rat fur to get a better look, and brought in a better light. And there it was! The bottom end of a rivit.

What I thought was wood turned out to be brownish stained rough tectured fiberglass. Appears my fan was installed the same as yours. No wood!

Now I'm comfortable about drilling out the rivits, removing the fan housing, and doing the job correctly.

Also, due to the other post I know what to use top side!

Thanks to everyone.

Kip

[Kip in Ga.]

Originally Posted by Kip in Ga.

I'm in the process of taking mine completely apart. Piece by piece. Lots of bits and pieces. Lots and lots of pieces.

That flange is part of a larger box that is held in place by 4 screws. That box houses some switches, and other electrical gadgets you can see through the screen. The screws are not on the extreme outward corners of the flange. They are more inward. I don't recall if you can see them with the screen in place. My inside trim has holes also, but there are no screws in them. They only serve to drip the water that is seeping in from outside.

Kip

Took another look at how the interior trim piece is attached to the fan housing. Mine was attached with rivits. Can't see the attachment points until the center section's 4 screws are removed and the center dropped down. The center section is the part that contains the various switches and electrical components.

The trim was not attached to the roof. in any manner.

Kip

[Davie B]

Hey Kip. I had a very similar situation. In my case, a previous "fixer" had used both silicone goo and butyl tape. I contacted the folks at fantastic fan for advice. They provided excellent advice and a new installation kit for my fan.

I ended up removing everything, scraping and cleaning the fan parts and the trailer shell. Based on advice from the very nice fantastic fan folks, I stiffened the roof by epoxying strips of plywood around the roof opening on the inside. The strips are about an inch wide and are 1/4 plywood coated on all sides with epoxy prior to being glued in place.

The fan was installed using the gasket supplied with the install kit. The kit also includes a packet of silicone "oil" which coats both sides of the gasket. I fastened the fan using mostly the screws supplied with the kit with the addition of bolts with lock washers and locktite at the corners and in the middle of each side.

With the rat fur was glued back in place, the installation looks good and has remained dry through major Florida monsoons.

Your mileage may vary.

[Kip in Ga.]

Hey Davie,

Thanks for the reply. Called Fantastic Fan !

They are sending a gasket. Hopefully it will be a kit such as you got.

What is the purpose of the Silicon Oil?

What did you use to clean the residue from the goo that was on your parts?

What did you use to glue the rat fur back in place?

Thanks,
Kip

[Davie B]

Yes. The parts were sent without charge. I used a scraper, elbow grease and acetone to clean the trailer. The silicone oil, I assume, fills the any small gaps between the gasket and the trailer. I used 3M trim adhesive to glue the insulation (foil bubble wrap) to the fiberglass and the rat fur to the insulation.

Good luck with the repair.

[Kip in Ga.]

Originally Posted by Davie B

Yes. The parts were sent without charge. I used a scraper, elbow grease and acetone to clean the trailer. The silicone oil, I assume, fills the any small gaps between the gasket and the trailer. I used 3M trim adhesive to glue the insulation (foil bubble wrap) to the fiberglass and the rat fur to the insulation.

Good luck with the repair.

Thanks Davie!

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Kip in Ga.

A couple of days after getting our 03 Casita 17' SD home it started raining moderately. I was in and out of the trailer and had a cube heater running.

Kip

Congratulations on the new camper, didn't know you finally got one. You should bring it to the Scamp Camp in Sebring in Feb and show it off. It's only January and we've been camping in our Scamp already

John (in GA)

[Kip in Ga.]

Originally Posted by John Haggerty

Congratulations on the new camper, didn't know you finally got one. You should bring it to the Scamp Camp in Sebring in Feb and show it off. It's only January and we've been camping in our Scamp already

John (in GA)

Hey John, and thank you!

Right now we're in the mist of fixin stuff, getting new tires, re-doing the upholstery, repacking wheel bearings and so forth. Nothing wrong with the upholstery but we want to get thicker foam and change colors a bit. Hang some curtains, and so on.

Also, because we sleep seperate, I wanted to create a permenant bed for each of us. That is doable and still have a dinette for 2. Dinette won't be on the side. The old side dinette is now a sofa/my bed. I'm also building a self closing gate to go from the bath to the fridge to keep the dogs from slipping past us when the front door is open.

So the fun has begun!


Got the fantastic Fan assenbly out of the hole. There was no gasket (none, na-na, zero, zip) between the fan base and the trailer roof. Not even a bead of silicone. No supprise it was leaking. When I lifted it up there was water between it and the roof, on 3 sides. I'm replacing the 28 rivits with screws, nuts and lockwashers, Waiting on a gasket from Fantastic Fan.

Not sure when it will be ready for the road and camping. Hopefully by early spring. Looking forward to hitting the road.

Thanks,
Kip

[Carol H]

Kip if you install the fan using butyl tape you do not need or want the gasket. I throw the one that came with mine away. The tape needs to be in full contact with the roof and the bottom on the fan - the gasket will stop a good seal.

[Borden]

Got a roll of the butyl tape from the local rv place great stuff and flexable.

[Kip in Ga.]

Is the butyl tape sticky on one side, both sides?

How thick is it?

Trying to understand how or why it would be better than the gasket Fantastic Fan sent.

Thanks,
Kip

[Joe Z]

butyl tape is about 1/8" thick and sticky on both side (actually throught)...if you've ever touched that stuff that they install car windshields with that will give you an idea.....it squeezes down and oozes out....a gasket needs a perfect level surface on both sides....butyl doesn't.
Another comparison would be it's something like those flypaper strips but thicker.
I really like butyl tape.
Joe

[Ed Harris]

It is not even really tape.

Butyl rubber is the stickiest substance I know of that you can work with your hands and still remove,carefully.

I guess it is called tape as they sell it in pre made thickness and width like a tape but it is a pure hunk of rubber putty.

They use it to install windshields as Joe said and they squeeze it from a tube.
Clearly your windshield will rarely leak and it is ideal to seal almost any smooth surface.

Just know that the only thing that seems to remove it is it.
I can always use more Butyl to remove stuck Butyl.

[Carol H]

Kip here is a picture of what it looks like on the roll BUTYL TAPE

Using a gasket with it serves no pupose and it will just get in the way of a good seal. The tape in addition to sealing will do the job the gasket would have done.

[Kip in Ga.]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Kip here is a picture of what it looks like on the roll BUTYL TAPE

Using a gasket with it serves no pupose and it will just get in the way of a good seal. The tape in addition to sealing will do the job the gasket would have done.

Thank you Carol.
Kip

[RSchleder]

I had a drip leak from my fantastic fan in my 2007 Scamp. It turned out to be one of the rivets around the edge of the fan that attaches it to the roof. I went to a local RV dealer and purchased a product called C10. It's a self leveling product and after removing the original loose material 'covering" the leaking rivet, I used my caulk gun to squirt the C10 over and around the leaking rivet. That was 3 years ago and to this day, it's totally leak free!

[Ray N]

I know that silicone is usually not recommended around fiberglass, but over the past couple of decades I've had good luck with limited use of "flowable silicone" a.k.a. "Windshield and Glass Sealer." It's silicone, but runny, and flows into cracks, and other small holes to seal out moisture. I've used it on tail lights and one camper window where there was incomplete sealing between the rubber gaskets and glass or plastic. The flowable silicone seems to be sucked into tiny cracks by capillary action, but maybe it's just gravity, but either way it's done the job for me two or three times. I wouldn't use it instead of butyl tape on any kind of gasket job, it's only for very tiny leaks.