My 2 Cents on Refrigerator

[mszabo]

I’d be happy to give you $20 for your useless refrigerator.

[mcmars]

Originally Posted by meryone

Thanks Marcia, I'm going to take a look at those.

This is the one I got, 103 prospector. I put 4 blocks in it and got 13 days before needing new blocks on a trip last fall to Terlingua Tx with temps into high 80's. The blocks were real slow freeze ice, not the normal crushed ice pressed into blocks, that makes a big difference. https://canyoncoolers.com/products/p...8aAo-5EALw_wcB

[CarlD]

My Hilo had a 3 way fridge and it did not get very cold. They had a fan installed in the back, that I never used because of the noise and battery drain. I did however read the installation instructions which stated that the space between the back of the fridge and the wall should be no more than 2 inches. The reason for this is that air will bypass the condenser area and not cool the gas sufficiently. The manufacturer had over 3 inches of air space. I installed a baffle and got about 5 more degrees of cooling. I also noticed that the freezer worked very well. I removed the freezer door and let the cool air drop to the fridge area. I got another 5 degrees and the freezer still froze the blue freeze containers. So I would swap frozen ones for thawed ones in the fridge area and got a bit more cooling. Basically, as already stated, these things don't really work that well and they are quite inefficient.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by ZachO

What's this copper pipe from the Casita forum? Are we talking making a roof-top chimney for a side-vent fridge? Cause I've definitely considered that. Seeing what some other people have done would be cool.

Zach,

The copper pipe was an approach that either Webmaster Gene and/or some other folks have taken to basically imitate the Australian kit. It wasn't a through-the-roof vent, but it captured the waste heat at the top of the flue and carried it up and out of the trailer sidewall. I can't find an illustration of the copper-pipe approach, but check out the Dometic flue kit illustrations at the end of this post.

Also, Joe Romas showed us a similar approach that he took with 1-3/4" corrugated aluminum from NAPA Auto in post #67 of the fridge-performance-survey thread. He didn't carry the corrugated pipe outside of the trailer's sidewall, but he took it over the top of the highest cooling fins so the waste heat from the flue isn't adding heat to the parts that are already attempting to give off heat from the refrigeration process.

Here's illustrations of how the Dometic kit is installed:

[ZachO]

Without photos I just can't picture how that would fit over my chimney. Lack of imagination on my part.

I plan to use your method, or possibly Joe's. Looking back over the thread for the first time in a while there are definitely still a few things I can do that I haven't tried yet, including the sledgehammer

[Kai in Seattle]

We bought a Coleman 12V/110 cooler that will stand up right where a fridge might go...we were out 24 days and the bottles of ice Paul put in the bottom to start with were still frozen when we got home. It did a super job, was under $100, and has its own adaptor. Paul says we can use a 110 adaptor he has to convert a 110 outlet in Peanut to 12V, so that would save having to move the cooler back and forth from car (12V) to trailer (110V)…I didn't know he had one or when he got it; but you could use one of these. We didn't consider it to be a freezer at any point, and we tried not to put warm things into it. Even so, even in 90 degree heat, that ice stayed frozen. I think it is colder on the bottom than anywhere else. It kept everything nice and cold.

It can sit like a regular cooler and the lid opens like a regular ice chest cooler, or it can stand up like a little fridge. It comes with one movable shelf inside.

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[ntsqd]

Our Phoenix came with a Dometic 3-Way fridge that didn't work well. Research showed that the burner would calcify over time and needed to be cleaned. That was, at most, a 1/2 hour job. Performance did improve after the cleaning, but still wasn't great. Fridge was also very sensitive to level. I put a round bubble level inside the lower fridge access door figuring that being level is what counted.


Then I added two 80mm computer fans on thermostats to blow air our of the upper vent. One t-stat was fixed at 90°f, the other was adjustable between 70°F & 120°f and I ended up setting it at about 90°f! So much for two-stage cooling!
The fans were noisy and fridge performance improved incrementally.


A trip in Spring of '17 saw the fridge fail to cool completely in the desert.

I'd had it by then. I bought an Indel/Webasto compressor fridge and couldn't be happier. Our 100W of solar keeps up with it well enough, though we rarely stay in one place very long. The alternator will pick up the camper batteries and top them off.

I did install the new fridge with an inch of hard foam insulation on the top and both sides, and 1/2" of foam on the bottom. Food stays a consistent temperature and I don't need those noisy fans. About the only thing that I miss of the old 3-way was how long it would run on a bbq tank of propane. The new fridge's performance is so much better than the old one that I don't miss that propane performance very much.

[meryone]

I'd like to take a look at that one. Can you post a link to the one you purchased. Again, I think it's worth noting, I do not have AC so during the day especially in high heat my Burro can get very warm inside. That's got to make a difference no?

[lars]

The 3-way fridge in our Casita died a couple of years ago so I replaced it with a 12V compressor fridge. Very happy with it since I can run it while towing and don't have to turn it off when I pull into a gas station. We only camp in one place 3-4 nights at a time so if there's no shore power, it's not an issue.

[Byron Kinnaman]

I see a lot of fussing and complaining about the refrigerator on both here and Facebook. As a result I keep wonder how I managed to live through 30+ years of backpacking without out any refrigeration.

[Kai in Seattle]

Byron:

Because you were backpacking.

I've never yet heard of any backpacker who deals with a fridge or even ice chest of any kind. Ever.

The simpler it is, the less can go wrong!


BEST
Kai

[Jon in AZ]

My backpacking diet was a lot more limited than I care to accept now. Fresh meats and veggies on the grill are part of what makes car/RV camping enjoyable for us.

I'm not averse to a cold beverage every now and then, either.

Since we take short trips of a week or less, ice works just fine for us. A 20# bag of cubes is only $2 at Costco, so it's economical, too.

[ntsqd]

Originally Posted by meryone

I'd like to take a look at that one. Can you post a link to the one you purchased. Again, I think it's worth noting, I do not have AC so during the day especially in high heat my Burro can get very warm inside. That's got to make a difference no?

I found the unit that best fit our opening here: https://www.indelwebastomarine.com/u...refrigerators/ and then did a net search looking for who carried that part number. Found one at a marine vendor in the Puget Sound area that had been a boat show demo. Lots of miles on it, but had never been connected or turned on.


I'm very glad to leave ice behind, and I did that a long time ago. When I'm solo I don't bother with chilled anything. If it won't keep at ambient temperature it doesn't go on the trip.

My wife shudders at that, so when she goes on a trip the fridge is in use.

[Kevin Dawson]

I'm in the process of replacing our Dometic 3way with a TruckFridge TF130 AC/DC. The TF130 only needed 2/3" wider opening, but adds about 1 cu/ft more capacity. We've got a deep cycle battery and a Renology 100watt portable panel. This is for our 2011 Escape 15a.
I really wasn't happy with the Dometic.

[mizterwizard]

When I was a kid we had a 3 way fridge in our camper. It didn't work worth a darn. My dad tried lots of different things including replacing the burner twice, the electric heaters once and all sorts of baffles and such. It never got more than cool.

Then one day an older tech at a local RV place suggested that he take it out, set it on the lawn upside down for an afternoon and then put it back in.

Ya, right. And bury a dishrag in the garden at midnight under a full moon.

However, out of desperation he did as instructed. We went camping the next day. It froze everything in the fridge. Instead of running it on 10 all of the time it had to be turned down to 3.

What happens is that the chemicals inside, ammonia, water and hydrogen gas, get mixed up and in the wrong places. By burping it the chemicals all go to the same place. Then when it is set back upright the chemicals all go to the regeneration area of the system. They get regenerated when the fridge is started up and go to the right places. When everything is in the right place it works a lot better.

This may not work for everyone but it is worth a try. Even those with relatively new refrigerators may benefit because if it is run while it is out of level it can mix the chemicals. These things work on gravity and some of the angles are pretty shallow. Only a little tipping can mess them up badly.

Just something else to consider. There are utube videos.

[mizterwizard]

For reasons I won't go into I've done a lot of research on refrigeration. Way more than someone who doesn't do it for a living would normally do. I'm not normal I guess.

As far a efficiency goes, if we define efficiency as getting the most usable work out of each calorie of energy we expend then a compression refrigerator is about 3-4 times as efficient as an absorption cycle refrigerator. The big advantage to absorption refrigeration is that it can run off just about any source of heat and the heat doesn't need to be very high quality.

Electricity is high quality energy and is expensive to make. Heat is available everywhere for very little. For this reason it is generally a toss up money wise whether you refrigerate with heat or electricity, as long as you don't use electricity to generate heat directly.

Our refrigerators are absorption cycle in that the cooling happens because water inside the system absorbs ammonia, causing the ammonia to boil and become cold. The hydrogen gas is part of the Electrolux cycle as invented by the same guy who is associated with the vacuum cleaners. Electrolux was the parent company of Dometic until 2001. There is more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

In the wild, heat from propane is easier to come by than electricity so we have absorption cycle fridges instead of compression style fridges. If hookups are available then a compressor is by far cheaper to run than absorption.

World wide more cooling is done using absorption than any other refrigeration method because it can run on waste heat from other processes. It is more common to use lithium bromide salt and water than water and ammonia in larger systems that only need cooling, not freezing. When water and ammonia are used in large systems a small circulation pump is used as well so there is no need for the hydrogen gas.

Someone who wanted to get really enterprising could arrange to run their fridge off a campfire. Just saying.

In the movie "Mosquito Coast" Harrison Ford makes ice for Amazon natives using absorption cycle refrigeration powered by wood fire.

[The_Kramers]

I just installed one of these in mu SurfSide 14. Great little fridge but a little expensive as it is a REAL refrigerator. I opted for the 12 VDC model as I will always have 12VDC and it runs off a 80 Amp hour battery for 2-1/2 days.


https://www.northernfridge.ca/collec...oducts/tf130dc

[Sylvia W]

As the new owner of a 2006 Casita Freedom Deluxe 17, I am reading this thread with interest, and learning a lot. Thanks to all who have posted.

I am particularly drawn to the idea of standing fridge on its head to rectify the chemical humors.

Anyhoo... I came here looking for guidance re inspecting the refrigerator drain tube. A member here told me this is a common failure. I am going to start a new thread on this topic.

Thanks again,
Sylvia

[Raz]

Originally Posted by mizterwizard

For reasons I won't go into I've done a lot of research on refrigeration. Way more than someone who doesn't do it for a living would normally do. I'm not normal I guess.

As far a efficiency goes, if we define efficiency as getting the most usable work out of each calorie of energy we expend then a compression refrigerator is about 3-4 times as efficient as an absorption cycle refrigerator. The big advantage to absorption refrigeration is that it can run off just about any source of heat and the heat doesn't need to be very high quality.

Electricity is high quality energy and is expensive to make. Heat is available everywhere for very little. For this reason it is generally a toss up money wise whether you refrigerate with heat or electricity, as long as you don't use electricity to generate heat directly.

Our refrigerators are absorption cycle in that the cooling happens because water inside the system absorbs ammonia, causing the ammonia to boil and become cold. The hydrogen gas is part of the Electrolux cycle as invented by the same guy who is associated with the vacuum cleaners. Electrolux was the parent company of Dometic until 2001. There is more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

In the wild, heat from propane is easier to come by than electricity so we have absorption cycle fridges instead of compression style fridges. If hookups are available then a compressor is by far cheaper to run than absorption.

World wide more cooling is done using absorption than any other refrigeration method because it can run on waste heat from other processes. It is more common to use lithium bromide salt and water than water and ammonia in larger systems that only need cooling, not freezing. When water and ammonia are used in large systems a small circulation pump is used as well so there is no need for the hydrogen gas.

Someone who wanted to get really enterprising could arrange to run their fridge off a campfire. Just saying.

In the movie "Mosquito Coast" Harrison Ford makes ice for Amazon natives using absorption cycle refrigeration powered by wood fire.

Interesting post. Thanks for sharing.

[Kai in Seattle]

"In the movie "Mosquito Coast" Harrison Ford makes ice for Amazon natives using absorption cycle refrigeration powered by wood fire." -- David, MizterWizard


Yeah, I loved the book and then the movie...and he surely did make ice that way!


Then again, you may recall how that turned out?**Hint below** :


BEST

Kai





Hint: POISONOUS, GINORMOUS EXPLOSION DESTROYED THE ENTIRE VILLAGE!