Peak Inverter - Fiberglass RV


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Old 02-27-2012, 04:20 PM   #1
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Peak Inverter

I was at Menards today and they had a Peak inverter on sale . The inverter is rated 400 watt continuous, 800 watts peak , modified sine wave and comes with connection cables. Cost was Reg $39.99 Sale price $9.99 . Has anyone else ever used a Peak inverter and will a modified sign wave work well on an LCD television . I've used the square wave type inverters on electronics but with not much success. and the true sine wave inverters work well but are expensive. At $9.99 I thought I would give it a try .(Peak is the Mfg.)

Thanks Steve Dunham
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:37 PM   #2
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Steve

A Square Wave is a Modified Sine Wave or at least as close to an actual Sine Wave as a cheap inverter can get.

There are a wide range of differences between inverter implementations and so far I am not convinced that any TVs really suffer from being powered by one more than another?

Even a cheap Pure Sine Wave model rarely produces a "True" Sine wave in my experience so I have my doubts that it really matters at all.

Just my thoughts.

Ed
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:46 PM   #3
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What a deal! We use our computer on our inexpensive modified wave inverter without any problem. If you have any issues with any devices (mostly sensitive electronics and some cordless tools) you can always buy a small full sine wave inverter without breaking the bank.
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:10 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ed Harris View Post
Steve

A Square Wave is a Modified Sine Wave or at least as close to an actual Sine Wave as a cheap inverter can get.

There are a wide range of differences between inverter implementations and so far I am not convinced that any TVs really suffer from being powered by one more than another?

Even a cheap Pure Sine Wave model rarely produces a "True" Sine wave in my experience so I have my doubts that it really matters at all.

Just my thoughts.

Ed
When I studied inverters harmonics and VFD's years ago I do not remember the term modified sine wave being used . Thanks for teaching me something new or at least jogging my memory . Never too old to learn!!
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:20 PM   #5
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Somebody in China probably made it and Peak put their name on it, but at that price you couldn't go wrong. If it craps out the first trip then you still have a nice paper weight.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:47 PM   #6
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Steve

A Square Wave is a Modified Sine Wave or at least as close to an actual Sine Wave as a cheap inverter can get................ Ed
I believe that square wave is not modified square wave. See the picture I copied. Some call modified square wave as a modified sine wave which is not very logical, once you have a sine wave why would you want to modify it; just like with hot water heater, why would you want to heat hot water.

Pure Sine Wave Power Inverters - Storage

George.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:06 PM   #7
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Square wave

When I worked on early inverters and VFD's the wave form looked like the tooth on a hacksaw blade . The solid state devices at that time did not generate a true square wave. Later on they started using BPGT's to generate the wave form and they were almost square . I remember that the early (1970's) inverters did not always work well with solid state devices and led to the devices overheating.. Harmonics especially the 3rd 7th and 9th also cause damage by overheating wiring components and causing overcurrents in the neutral conductors . I was not familiar with the term modifies wave form thus my question. I was concerned that the Peak inverter generated a distorted square wave or harmonics , leading to heating of the TV's components
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:04 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
When I worked on early inverters and VFD's the wave form looked like the tooth on a hacksaw blade . The solid state devices at that time did not generate a true square wave. Later on they started using BPGT's to generate the wave form and they were almost square . I remember that the early (1970's) inverters did not always work well with solid state devices and led to the devices overheating.. Harmonics especially the 3rd 7th and 9th also cause damage by overheating wiring components and causing overcurrents in the neutral conductors . I was not familiar with the term modifies wave form thus my question. I was concerned that the Peak inverter generated a distorted square wave or harmonics , leading to heating of the TV's components
I fried once a simple but expensive Nikon battery charger with the inexpensive square wave inverter. Most likely mismatched electronics caused some harmful harmonics. Since then I only use 1500W AIMS sine wave digital inverter. I actually look the inverter’s output on the oscilloscope and the sine wave was very smooth. Using square wave or modified square wave is just taking a chance, often it works but sometime it doesn’t.

George.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:05 AM   #9
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Here is a decent description I found blatantly copied from another forum that describes my point I think:

Let's see if I can clarify.
Most modified sine inverters put out simple square waveforms, actually only two pulses, timed and width-modulated to be somewhat lined up in time as a sine wave would be. In other words, a modified sine wave inverter generates a blocky wave which has none of the smoothness of a sine wave, but fewer harmonics than a simple square wave. But that's about all.
There are some modified sine inverters that put out simple stepped waveforms that come closer to sine, but they are still "blocky". Either of the two then attempt to filter out all of the unwanted harmonics with big capacitors and or inductors. Neither ever attains the lack of harmonics that a sine wave offers, and it's the harmonics that are the nasty part.

A "true" sine wave inverter does exactly the same thing- it approximates an analog sine wave with digital steps, with the big exception that it creates many, many digital steps instead of just two or four, and since the steps are correspondingly tiny, it's super easy to filter out any remaining harmonics with a simple filtering network- the result is an actual sine wave that approximates an analog sine wave well enough that no-one (and no equipment) has any issues with the result.

It's hard to communicate in words but diagrams are easy- here- In the illustration a squarewave is shown in green, a modified square wave is shown in blue, and a true sinewave is in red.



The basic reason that modified sine inverters suck is that any energy that is not exactly on the red line is "harmonic" energy, and it manifests itself as RF interference, excess heat in induction motors, etc. In this diagram, all the energy your refrigerator motor won't get to use is in the yellow areas, which is energy that will get converted to excess heat and RFI.



In this diagram is shown what a "better" modified sine wave inverter might create:


But the big deal is that no matter what the theoretical waveform "should" look like using a modified sine inverter, depending on the load the actual waveform can easily get as messy as this:
(and this is what mine pretty much looked like under load)


...............

...and just for the sake of it, this is more or less what most true sine inverters create, just proir to the final filtering stages:
(although some do it slightly differently, the results are the same- a "true" sine wave! )



There's actually a lot more to all of this, both mathematically and electronically, and what I've presented here is definitely a simplification, but hopefully it gets the point across.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:06 AM   #10
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Unfortunately the diagrams did not copy over so:

Modified Sine Wave VS True Sine Wave Inverters

This is pretty much what I am trying to say.

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Old 02-28-2012, 02:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I was at Menards today and they had a Peak inverter on sale . The inverter is rated 400 watt continuous, 800 watts peak , modified sine wave and comes with connection cables. Cost was Reg $39.99 Sale price $9.99 . Has anyone else ever used a Peak inverter and will a modified sign wave work well on an LCD television . I've used the square wave type inverters on electronics but with not much success. and the true sine wave inverters work well but are expensive. At $9.99 I thought I would give it a try .(Peak is the Mfg.)

Thanks Steve Dunham
It is a nice little inverter, I went and picked one up today!
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