Prepping a ParkLiner for Winter specifically - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 11-05-2019, 06:43 AM   #41
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Name: Ethan
Trailer: 2019 Parkliner
New York
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I believe there is one way valve. No pink fluid back feeds into water heater. Do not know if all water heaters are like this.
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:31 PM   #42
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Name: MJ
Trailer: Park Liner
GA
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Thanks Harry and Ethan. My PL is a 2013 so my guess is that it is not built the same way that Ethan's 2019 was, and I am curious to know what year Harry's ParkLiner is.

Harry, regarding the diagram (and thank you for it), my valves are not exactly in the same spots as drawn in the chart but I think it is still helpful and it generally looks the same.

I AM confused about the "normally closed" description on that chart. Except for the CW valve in front of the HW heater that seems to be correct in the perpendicular position (at the moment) to avoid pink stuff in the HW heater, are the other 3 valves: 1 valve by the Flowjet pump AND 2 valves that are found to the left of the HW heater supposed to be parallel before pumping the antifreeze and then make them all perpendicular till spring? Not all were in the same direction (if I remember correctly) when I began this winterizing adventure. I'm not even sure I remember what I did the get the pink stuff through the CW lines in the kit sink and bath sink and toilet at this point.

So is this the correct procedure to pump the antifreeze through everything? :
1. make sure the FlowJet valve is parallel to the line
2. make sure the CW valve to the HW heater is perpendicular to the line
3. make sure the 2 valves that are to the Left of the HW heater (one higher up and easier to find, the other lower and almost below the HW heater) are parallel to their respective lines.
4. pour antifreeze into the fresh water tank(s) (one side or both...your choice)
5. turn on pump and then turn on (one at a time) CW faucets at kitchen, bath, as well as shower and flush toilet until pink flows freely from each. Then, turn off pump.
6. turn the above 3 mentioned valves (two that are to the left of the HW heater and the one below the JetFlow) to be perpendicular to their respective lines (NOTE the CW valve in front of the HW heater is already perpendicular to the water line do block antifreeze from entering).
7. don't worry about the City Water line as it would have pumped pink antifreeze somehow into it's lines (I still don't understand the comments about it draining with the rest of the CW lines and refill with antifreeze when the pump is turned on - because I thought the city line doesn't pull water from the fresh water tanks - - so how could it pull the antifreeze that I poured into those fresh water tanks?)
8. pour a little antifreeze into the shower drain and then turn the shower pump on for a few seconds

Is this the pre-winter routine in a nutshell?

Also, I think I need to pump some more antifreeze in because I had to use the toilet a couple of times after winterizing before I moved down to a warmer campground where I emptied/flushed the gray/black tank once more. That said, I cannot find Zecol anywhere nearby where I am now. Is it safe to mix antifreeze brands or is that a bad idea?
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:55 PM   #43
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Name: Huck
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Virginia
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Does step 6 drain the antifreeze out of the lines?

Since you bypass the hot water tank, there is no water in the hot water line. That valve (red) on that line should remain in the closed (drain) position, but the cold water valve (blue) should remain open (not drain) position.

The valve on fresh water tank side should also be open (not drained) so the antifreeze doesn't leak out.
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:24 PM   #44
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Name: MJ
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GA
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Huck, step 6 is part of my question on what to do and in what order. It seems that for my camper (and anyone with a ParkLiner feel free to chime in on this observation) that valves that are perpendicular to the line = closed.

So I am not sure if your instruction "That valve (red) on that line should remain in the closed (drain) position, but the cold water valve (blue) should remain open (not drain) position....The valve on fresh water tank side should also be open (not drained) so the antifreeze doesn't leak out." means perpendicular = closed = drained or if parallel to the line = drained = closed. What do you mean by "drained"?
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Old 11-06-2019, 03:17 PM   #45
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Name: Huck
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Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle View Post
Huck, step 6 is part of my question on what to do and in what order. It seems that for my camper (and anyone with a ParkLiner feel free to chime in on this observation) that valves that are perpendicular to the line = closed.

So I am not sure if your instruction "That valve (red) on that line should remain in the closed (drain) position, but the cold water valve (blue) should remain open (not drain) position....The valve on fresh water tank side should also be open (not drained) so the antifreeze doesn't leak out." means perpendicular = closed = drained or if parallel to the line = drained = closed. What do you mean by "drained"?
Sorry, I was busy and just got back to this.

When the water pipe gets to the hot water tank it splits - 1 leg is the cold water pipe and the other goes to the hot water tank. The only way that water ever gets into the hot water pipe is if you have water in the hot water tank.

You bypassed the hot water tank, so there can't be any new water getting into hot water pipe, nor can antifreeze get into the hot water pipe. That's why I recommended leaving the hot water valve in the drain position so any water that might still be in the pipe will drain out and not freeze.

The valve for the cold water pipe, as well as the valve near the fresh water tank, have to be open so that the antifreeze does not drain out. By open I mean the water/antifreeze flows through the pipe.

Think of it this way. You turned on the water pressure switch and made sure antifreeze came out the faucet, shower, and toilet. If you now go and change the position of the valve levers, the antifreeze will drain back out which is not what you want to do.
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Old 11-06-2019, 05:36 PM   #46
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Name: bill
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RV hot water bypasses usually have a common design. Yours is not a bypass in that sense. Yours is a shutoff valve to keep water from entering the hot water heater.

Sadly closing this valve does nothing for the water that is already in your hot water piping (from the exit of the hot water heater. If you have any spot in the plumbing past that connection that is lower than either the outlet of the hot water heater or he faucet, then some water is trapped on the line. Your faucets must be higher than the hot water heater outlet.

On our old Casita I had to run enough antifreeze through the hot water heater via the water supply tank. Then I used the pump to pump it through the hot water taps. PITA! And I used a lot of antifreeze.

The item that is usually called a RV hot water heater is a section of pipe with two three way valves that let you block off the inlet AND the outlet of the hot water heater. Much easier and much less antifreeze required.

I’d suggest you go to a RV store and have them explain in person how a hot water heater bypass works.

Water left in any line: cold water, hot water, drain lines, whatever will freeze.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:56 PM   #47
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Name: Gordon
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Originally Posted by Huck View Post
...

The valve for the cold water pipe, as well as the valve near the fresh water tank, have to be open so that the antifreeze does not drain out. ...

If you now go and change the position of the valve levers, the antifreeze will drain back out which is not what you want to do.
This is not clear to me but it sounds like you are suggesting that the pipes need to be full of antifreeze. But as I understand things that is not the case. Once the antifreeze has displaced (and removed) all the water, then draining the antifreeze will not be problem. The only things left then in the pipes are the residual antifreeze and air. Neither will expand and damage the plumbing when the temp drops.

After running antifreeze through my camper's plumbing, I routinely drain the pipes.
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:41 PM   #48
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Name: MJ
Trailer: Park Liner
GA
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My guess is my first AF application did the trick last week but since I had to use the toilet a couple of times afterwards I went ahead and went through the whole procedure (except for draining the HW heater) again to make sure all is well.

Parkliner People: Since your set up is most closely related to mine let me ask you this, should I leave the hot water valve (to the left of the HW heater) open (parallel to the line) or closed (perpendicular to the line) for winter? Since I bypassed the HW heater there isn't anything going out from it to go into the HW line but I was thinking that leaving it open might still be a good idea. Any thoughts?
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:49 PM   #49
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Tip on toilet, just use a jug of water to flush instead of your water supply. That way you can leave winterized.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:52 PM   #50
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Name: Huck
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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
Tip on toilet, just use a jug of water to flush instead of your water supply. That way you can leave winterized.
Which is why I leave antifreeze in the pipes. I can use a jug of water to flush and then turn on old water and run a little antifreeze into the toilet.
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Old 11-10-2019, 05:15 AM   #51
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Name: Ethan
Trailer: 2019 Parkliner
New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle View Post
My guess is my first AF application did the trick last week but since I had to use the toilet a couple of times afterwards I went ahead and went through the whole procedure (except for draining the HW heater) again to make sure all is well.

Parkliner People: Since your set up is most closely related to mine let me ask you this, should I leave the hot water valve (to the left of the HW heater) open (parallel to the line) or closed (perpendicular to the line) for winter? Since I bypassed the HW heater there isn't anything going out from it to go into the HW line but I was thinking that leaving it open might still be a good idea. Any thoughts?
You could leave the blue line water valve that feeds water heater turned on. You might get a dribble of antifreeze into water heater. Not a problem. The drain line from water heater could be left open too. If you have bugs in winter though I would close it.
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:22 AM   #52
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Name: Ethan
Trailer: 2019 Parkliner
New York
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I believe there is one way valve. No pink fluid back feeds into water heater. Do not know if all water heaters are like this.
I just serviced the trailer. There is no one way valve. My mistake,I just tested it. When I had installed the shark bite valve,made sure to be able to shut flow to water heater
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:36 PM   #53
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Name: MJ
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GA
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Thrifty Bill, then all I would need to do is pour a little AF into the bowl then, eh? Great idea. Thank you.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:31 AM   #54
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Name: Harry
Trailer: Parkliner
Virginia
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Tinkerbelle,

1. I am curious to know what year Harry's ParkLiner is.
Answer: Made in December 2013

2. I AM confused about the "normally closed" description on that chart. Except for the CW valve in front of the HW heater that seems to be correct in the perpendicular position (at the moment) to avoid pink stuff in the HW heater, are the other 3 valves: 1 valve by the Flowjet pump AND 2 valves that are found to the left of the HW heater supposed to be parallel before pumping the antifreeze and then make them all perpendicular till spring? Not all were in the same direction (if I remember correctly) when I began this winterizing adventure. I'm not even sure I remember what I did the get the pink stuff through the CW lines in the kit sink and bath sink and toilet at this point.
Answer: The other 3 valves are to DRAIN the water lines and fresh water tanks PRIOR to adding antifreeze to the tanks. These 3 valves should be OPENED (parallel) until water stops flowing from the 3 drain ports (2 on starboard side, 1 at port rear corner) under the Parkliner. Once all the fresh water is drained, CLOSE (90̊ to line) all 3 valves and leave closed until Spring . NOW add the antifreeze to the fresh water tanks(s) and proceed with Parkline’s instructions.
I said “normally closed” because “normally” after one drains anything by using a valve, one closes the valve after drainage has stopped. As someone suggested, you could leave the HW DRAIN valve open as an added caution to ensure all water can dribble out. My free advice is to close it and leave it closed as an added caution to keep cold air, bugs, etc out of the HW line. The benefit of ball valves is that when open, they have an almost full line diameter through the valve. That means better water flow through the valves, but also leaves a large diameter hole for unwanted things to crawl up.
Apparently, some of your DRAIN valves were left open after the previous owner drained the HW and fresh water tanks. You said you never used these two systems. If you had tried to use these two systems without CLOSING (90̊ to line) their respective DRAIN valves, you would have water running out of your Parkliner.

3. So is this the correct procedure to pump the antifreeze through everything? :
Answer: NO, see my comments.

4. (I still don't understand the comments about it draining with the rest of the CW lines and refill with antifreeze when the pump is turned on - because I thought the city line doesn't pull water from the fresh water tanks - - so how could it pull the antifreeze that I poured into those fresh water tanks?)
Answer: You are right, the city water line doesn’t pull water from the tanks. However, look closely at my drawing. You will see the city water line is connected to the outlet (pressurized) side of the Flo-Jet pump. When this PUMP is turned on, the pump sucks from the fresh water tank that now has antifreeze in it. Therefore, antifreeze is pumped into the city water line at the same time as is the CW system. When connected to city water, the pump blocks city water flow into the fresh water tank.

5. Also, I think I need to pump some more antifreeze in because I had to use the toilet a couple of times after winterizing before I moved down to a warmer campground where I emptied/flushed the gray/black tank once more. That said, I cannot find Zecol anywhere nearby where I am now. Is it safe to mix antifreeze brands or is that a bad idea?
Originally Posted by thrifty bill
Tip on toilet, just use a jug of water to flush instead of your water supply. That way you can leave winterized.
Answer: My drawing also included the bath drain system. ALL of those components on my 2013 Parkliner are mounted to the bottom side of the plywood flooring and are outside of the fiberglass shell. IMO adding plain water to this drain system, puts all these components and the black water tank in danger of freezing. When you turn on the Flo-Jet pump to refill the lines and flush the toilet, if there is not enough antifreeze left in the tank, the pump will not shutoff because it can not reach the shutoff pressure due to a lack of liquid. If that is the case, add antifreeze and retry.
Leave the antifreeze in the entire winterized system until Spring.
As long as you use designated RV antifreeze, there should be no problems mixing different brands.
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:32 PM   #55
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Consider your options if winterized and using the toilet.

1. Use your water system, and you will have to re-winterize from your city water hookup, pump, cold water line to the toilet, and the black water tank. Or use your fresh supply tank and you have to re-winterize from the fresh tank, through the water line and pump to the toilet.

2. Use water out of a jug to manually flush the toilet. You then will need to rewinterize your black water tank. Everything else will be fine.
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Old 11-29-2019, 04:45 PM   #56
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Name: George
Trailer: Park Liner
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I wrote the owner’s manual

I bought a new Park Liner in 2012 from the founder, Chandler Palenthorp. As a professional tech writer I offered to write an owner’s manual complete with photos. I did that, and he paid me but never published it. This was extremely frustrating, and it echoed many other experiences I had with Chandler. Unfortunately I am not surprised he went out of business. What a shame. If you would like a PDF copy, send me your e-mail.
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Old 11-30-2019, 04:45 PM   #57
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Name: Wayne & Barbara
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Yes, a manual would be nice. I wonder how many changes were made between 2102 and 2016….. when we got ours new from the Liberty plant.
We found many things of poor workmanship … which I was able to fix myself. Tom Bass, the salesman at that time, was generous in reimbursing me for time and materials…
What would benefit me most: Wiring, and plumbing schematics and pictorial drawings.
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Old 11-30-2019, 05:13 PM   #58
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If you would like a PDF copy, send me your e-mail.

I don't need the manual, but I wonder if the PDF could be uploaded to Documents on FGRV. Might have to ask a moderator.
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Old 12-01-2019, 12:51 PM   #59
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I don't need the manual, but I wonder if the PDF could be uploaded to Documents on FGRV. Might have to ask a moderator.
OK.. I saw the offer to share the manual and I was not going to say this because it is not my place, but since I don't want to see George or the this site's Admins get in any trouble..

My concern is that since Chandler commissioned and paid for the manual, he may have copyright ownership. IMHO that is something to check before wide distribution of the manual. Perhaps George has a formal contact that spells out who owns the product and what rights (if any) the author has for distribution.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:14 AM   #60
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Name: Harry
Trailer: Parkliner
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Originally Posted by georgesass View Post
I bought a new Park Liner in 2012 from the founder, Chandler Palenthorp. As a professional tech writer I offered to write an owner’s manual complete with photos. I did that, and he paid me but never published it. This was extremely frustrating, and it echoed many other experiences I had with Chandler. Unfortunately I am not surprised he went out of business. What a shame. If you would like a PDF copy, send me your e-mail.
I PM'd you my email address. I would like a copy of the PDF. I got a DVD with my Parkliner that is more for sales than an owner info source.
Hp in Va
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