Problems Removing Rivets

[John in Michigan]

Thanks for your input Jim and Gordon. These 40 year old rivets are a bit short, some didn't go in straight, and some are corroded. I agree that the holes will be covered by new side marker lights, so fiberglass patches will be fine. Thanks again!

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by gordon2

If you are replying to this post...



There IS no other side.. thats his problem.

But if you have to cause some damage to the glass in the process, hopefully it is under the light fixture so you can do a water tight glass repair that does not have to look good (or even have gel-coat) because it is hidden by the light fixture. Patch the fiberglass and drill a new hole.

Not following that there is no other side. Every Trillium I saw was just a thin shell. On the '76 Trillium I rebuilt there was some hardened type caulking/sealant on the inside I had to first chip off, and yes there were a few that took a sharp blow with an appropriately size punch, but I reused every last hole in all four marker lights.

If for some reason the rivets still do not come out, could you not drill new holes over about 1/4" and mount them there, still covering the old rivets?

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Not following that there is no other side. Every Trillium I saw was just a thin shell....

That was my first thought also. that they probably did go through the shell but it was not visible. But I took the OP at his word. I agree that its worth a closer inspection and it is likely the rivets can be pushed in all the way, even if they get lodged somewhere after that, the hole for the new rivet would be clear.

[John in Michigan]

Not so with my Trillium. What you see in the upside-down image is the barely showing backside of the rivet next to the two original wiring holes. And the surface is very hard resin coating.

[John in Michigan]

I'll try drilling out from the backside. One rivet is "stuck" in the forward roadside marker location and one rivet is "stuck" in the rear roadside marker location. All other rivets popped out.

[mary and bob]

The rivet has probably expanded in the hole, therefore tight so it won't easily push out. If you can get at the back side, and have a helper, put a washer over the rivet that fits loose, and hold a small socket over that on a extension with something like a block of wood against it while the other person uses a punch on the outside. The washer will help spread the load on the fiberglass, block of wood spreads the load on the helpers hand. Just don't get too heavy with the hammer.

[Jim Bennett]

I remember now using a pair of needle nose locking pliers to tug a few out, with a bit of twisting and turning.

[John in Michigan]

I think you've identified the problem exactly: the rivet expanded in the fiberglass shell. When I drilled the head off, cleared away the old marker light, and then tried to twist the old rivet and pop it through, it broke off. The expanded portion of the rivet is stuck in the FG shell. And I agree with you that if I can't drill it out from the inside, I can punch it out by having a helper back up the FG shell with a piece of wood with a hole on the opposite side. Thanks for the insight!

[John in Michigan]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I remember now using a pair of needle nose locking pliers to tug a few out, with a bit of twisting and turning.

Jim, I tried my needle nose locking pliers, the rivet end isn't out far enough. Thanks.

[Gerry]

Originally Posted by John in Michigan

Gerry, I'll try that. The outside of the rivet is mangled, so I'll drill out from the inside. Thanks.

John If there is any dimple at all on the outside of the trailer or the head side of the rivet we'll call it, I would drill from there.
Look at an un-popped rivet...see how t is made? The center should have a dimple in it where the stem went through.
I agree that the head may have only gotten into the skin of the fiberglass and expaned there and does not protrude into the inside, if no evidence of the stem is inside. I assume you are looking at the fiberglass on the inside not the rat-fur or Ensolite on the inside.
All rivets on my Boler were hidden under the Ensolite.
In fact when I took off my awning rail I had to leave all these little heads under the Ensolite after drilling them out.
No harm just a little bump under it. Can not see it just can feel it if running hand over it.
Let us know how my method worked out for you.
As said I did it with several buggers on my trailer and it worked.

[John in Michigan]

Gerry,

Outside snapshot is on the left, inside snapshot is on the right. Outside is gel coat. Inside is hard resin. The surface is bouncy like a trampoline.

1. I can't drill into the outside of the rivet without first grinding it flat and then punching a dimple in it.
2. Neither the outside nor inside remains are projecting out far enough to grab with locking needle nose pliers.
3. Could drill from the inside using a smaller than rivet diameter bit, then use a rivet diameter bit from either the inside or outside.



-John

[Gerry]

oooo for God sakes don't do any more pounding on it. I can see now the damage is substantial.
Drill from inside if you can center it on pin, but if all fails like another has said the holes will be under the base plate of the side marker.
If holes gets too big for rivet you may be able to use a machine screw and nut but regardless, I think, when installing the new lense you may want to get a longer rivet or screw, and use a fender washer (big washer with small center hole) on the inside to reinforce the application area.

[mary and bob]

If the center pull pin is still in there, and it looks like it is, maybe try to drive it out (towards the inside) with a small punch. Then the rest of the rivet would drill easy. Using a small grinder, like on a Dremel tool maybe on the outside, would help. I have air powered die grinders for such tasks.

[John in Michigan]

Reason I'm favoring starting drilling from the inside is that the rivet end is hollow in the center there. It appears white in the photo like it has some colored resin in the middle of it.

Another thing, I'm using SS machine screws and nylock nuts, not using rivets to install the new side markers.

Maybe I'll employ the services of a dentist to perform the extraction.

[John in Michigan]

Long story short, I just finished extracting the remains of 2 rivets (one located at the streetside forward marker, the other at the streetside aft marker)! For the rivet located at the streetside forward marker (photos provided earlier), I drilled from the inside out with a small bit, then drilled from the outside in with a larger bit. For the rivet remains located at the streetside aft marker, the outside of the rivet was in drillable condition, and I was able to simply drill in from the outside.

Note that both rivets had been expanded into the FG and protruded less than a 1/16" into the interior. Some aluminum rivet material is probably still embedded in the FG, but I don't care about that.

Ultimately I did not have to, and did not call in a dentist for assistance.

I will now, with the help of my DW, continue with installing beautiful new LED side marker lights using SS machine screws and nylock nuts.

[mary and bob]

Probably want to use some kind of sealant under the lights, butyl tape maybe, but not silicone. Some marker lights are made with notches for surface wiring, and of course water could get in there.

[Gerry]

Glad you got it all done with no major problems. I love a happy ending.
Mary & Bob are right, make sure you use some sort of sealent on any perferations through the fiberglass.

[John in Michigan]

These new marker lights have too many notches IMO. Anyhow I'm using ample fresh butyl tape to seal. My strategy is to thoroughly seal the upper half of the fixture, then leave the bottom of the fixture unsealed so that it can drain.

Pretty much have everything back together, then on to new porch light...

(I'm using crimps to attach the new fixtures, but that's another thread...)

Thanks to everyone for your help!

[Jim Bennett]

I just used Proflex on the interior, fully sealing the rivet and wire penetrations. No chance for water ingress, and leaves the sealed lights to drain easily if needed.

[John in Michigan]

Jim, Proflex is another option that's discussed often on this forum. What's the shelf life for an open container/tube? Can it be purchased in SMALL quantity? I plan to start using Proflex to seal the standalone fasteners penetrating the gel coat on my Boler 1700. How much trouble is it to remove Proflex if you need to remove the fastener and/or accessory? How much trouble is it to remove from gel coat without damage? -John