Problems with ordering from SCAMP plus delivery issues

[Dakota]

I'll be heading up to Duluth in a few weeks for a little get away and stop in Backous on way to check out the factory, campers and meet with my salesperson. I'm excited to finally see a Scamp up close and will ask lots of questions and address the concerns that have been expressed in the forum. It's a big purchase/investment and that trailer whatever brand it will be will get quite the use!

Prior to leaving I'll send some smoke signals and phone my salesperson to set up a time and see if they have the floor plan and model there I'm interested in looking at.

[hillary]

Just going to mention that Escape will make a 13' occasionally, from what I've read! They just don't have it on their website anymore. They're further away from you and I have no doubt delivery would be just as expensive if not more so.

Before we found our used Escape I'd called both Scamp and Casita for brochures and info, and Scamp did give a very "used care salesman" vibe. Casita was able to respond to emails, and did quickly!

Good luck, may your trailer turn out exactly like you want!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

What???? Are you suggesting that they have advanced to Caller I.D. as well Hoodathunkit?????

Me thinks that as long as they are selling all they can build, that they may see little need to change their business model.

And after only 40 years in the biz I am sure that they are weighing the cost and risks of expanding to quickly.....

dont know Bob .... I may have gone to far with the suggestion they now have caller ID!

Are they in fact selling all they can build all year round? What kind of delv dates are they currently projecting on an order placed today? Jan? as one of their competition currently is?

Yup your right you wouldnt want to rush into anything to big in regards to changes - it might be risky for sure! might take a few meetings and start sliding into duck hunting season

[TomP]

7 years ago when we were buying our first fiberglass camper we went to both Scamp and Casita and ended up going with Casita because of their customer service. We could not get straight answers from Scamp on a lot of things and just felt more comfortable ordering a custom built trailer from Casita. Scamp builds a nice trailer and has tried to update their website and some parts of their business but they just don't seem to have the know how to run it. They have made very few upgrades in their trailers over the years. They act like they are stuck in the 1980's. Do they have LED tail lights yet? They missed the perfect opportunity when their building burnt down to start completely over but just picked up where they left off.

We have sold our Casita and are now having a Escape 19' built that is in production right now. The whole purchase and build has been done with 2 phone calls and 47 emails by my choice. I don't need to speak to them about every little question on the phone but they would be happy to if that was my choice. Every email has been answered the same day regardless how late it is when they have to get back to us. Their customer service is way over and above what I would have expected. They are not the cheapest but build a quality product at a fair price and like the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. When you consider the resale value of their trailers they are not that much more.

Scamp should take a look at their competition as an example of how to do it right before its to late and step up their customer service because its only a matter of time before it catches up to them. No business can survive forever without staying up with the times. Look at companies like Zappos and Amazon who build their business on customer service. I would have to say that Escape has followed this model thus why we do business with all three.

By the way, I just returned a pair of shoes to Zappos this week that were 5 months old that developed a problem and they paid for the return freight, I received instant credit and got a nice thank you for my business and sorry you had a problem. I love that company and tell everyone I know!

I also tell everyone I know when we have had a bad experience with a company.

[RogerDat]

I'm a plus 1 on well put Carol.

When I first checked out Scamp 6-7 years ago the web site was much worse than it is now. Really not all that bad compared to the competition.

Would be nice to have prices with those options listed on the web site, as well as a little bit more info on the parts. What models or applications does part apply to would be good. Pretty sure they know what those rivet sizes fit.

Who knows how busy they are year round? The delivery lead time would be interesting to know.

Here is why shipping cost so much out of Minn.
http://www.startribune.com/business/151176935.html

[floyd]

Make that minus 1 for me,
Scamp has been in business for 42 years, with an extremely high satisfaction rate. Escape is doing fine, but they are a new kid on the block and still have more to learn from Scamp than the other way around.
They built mine per spec and on time with several changes accomplished with a single phone call each... and it's still right after 9 years.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by floyd

Make that minus 1 for me,
Scamp has been in business for 42 years, with an extremely high satisfaction rate. Escape is doing fine, but they are a new kid on the block and still have more to learn from Scamp than the other way around.
They built mine per spec and on time with several changes accomplished with a single phone call each... and it's still right after 9 years.

Floyd : I have to admire you for your loyalty to certain manufacturers (Ford and Scamp for an example) . I wish I had known about your personal relationship with Scamp when I was trying to order a new Scamp , things might have gone a lot better with your help . I believe you when you talk about the good service you have received from Scamp but I also believe the others who have not . We all can only relate to our own experiences ,good or bad. I lived most of my life in Minnesota and would have preferred to purchase a Minnesota made product but in the end I purchased a Casita because they showed a desire to have my business

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by floyd

....
They built mine per spec and on time with several changes accomplished with a single phone call each... and it's still right after 9 years.

Floyd you have the distinct advantage of being a very knowledgeable consumer of things RV related. Plus a detailed understanding of the merits of the Scamp, and the value of the options offered.

This is more about what can Scamp do "better" to capture the next generation of consumers that will give them another 42 years, even in the face of increased competition and changing consumer desires.

Note that both Carol and Myself express satisfaction with the Scamp, tempered by concern for the things that do generate complaints or lost sales.

The difference between excellent and good is usually in the details and small stuff. Often a matter of consistent performance, something that can not be demonstrated by either your single good experince, or refuted by another persons single bad experience.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

Floyd you have the distinct advantage of being a very knowledgeable consumer of things RV related. Plus a detailed understanding of the merits of the Scamp, and the value of the options offered.

This is more about what can Scamp do "better" to capture the next generation of consumers that will give them another 42 years, even in the face of increased competition and changing consumer desires.

Note that both Carol and Myself express satisfaction with the Scamp, tempered by concern for the things that do generate complaints or lost sales.

The difference between excellent and good is usually in the details and small stuff. Often a matter of consistent performance, something that can not be demonstrated by either your single good experince, or refuted by another persons single bad experience.

A few points...
1] I owned my first fiberglass trailer (a 1973 LoveBug) at the time I purchased my Scamp.It was only my second RV trailer ever. The first was a (1969 Thorobred 12ft stickie) bought in 2001.

2] Since that time I have owned a couple dozen fiberglass trailers for rehab(several Scamps among them).
These kept my relationship with Scamp open and fairly active along with the many Scamp purchases in which I was privileged to consult with the buyers and share their experiences.

3] I have attended more than thirty ScampCamps and have heard every opinion and question imaginable. Many small items were handled on site, but on the occasions where the owner was referred back to the factory, I have always heard back from the owner. The VAST majority of the time with gushing praise for the service received. Only occasionally have I heard back stories of disappointment.

I agree that there is a difference between good and excellent and I see Scamp as excellent when seen in light of what some consider their peers.
I also see the difference between excellence and perfection, the former attainable, the latter a pipedream.
I guess it comes down to realistic expectations.
Providing me with a great and durable product followed by prompt and reliable service since October 2003 has earned Scamp a gold star for excellence which adds them to my VERY short list of excellent companies.

That being said, constant improvement is a laudable goal for every manufacturer, one which IMHO Scamp has demonstrated as much dedication as any of it's competitors both recent and long forgotten.

[Hman66]

Too bad they will never know these constructive comments

[Glenn Baglo]

Scamp would have to hire somebody full time just to read the forums. And, if they responded, they would find themselves in a war of words, which does them no good. That's not to defend lack of response to emails or phone calls, but I would never advise any manufacturer to join in the fray.

[Hman66]

I just have to say...order a new one today. It's not peaches and cream, that's why several others who have recently responded, have moved on to other companies. If you polled ALL constructive comments (recently expressed on multiple sites) its pretty obvious there are some pretty serious customer service issues in today's market. The numbers just say it all.

[Hman66]

As a person who has managed large customer service departments Glenn, I would never advise Scamp to "hire somebody, full time, just to read forums". But to have your head in the sand and think all is well while the rest of the world passes you by, is not a productive business model... if you want to stay in business another 40+ years. My wife is an attorney and the bankruptcy courts are FULL of good old family companies who were not smart enough to adapt to the current market. They never knew what hit them!!!

[Hman66]

Roger....ordered one on the 24th and being a 2014 delivery was 10/29. I changed the deluxe to a standard this week and it would have been done late Sept. Now, with a Standard ordered, but wanting a 2014 model.... I am awaiting a completion, then delivery date from Scamp. FYI

[Roy in TO]

There are hidden costs in hiring someone. The student and minimum wage comments initially make sense but when you factor in the employers ancillary costs those wages exponate.
Locally they calculated it to be about $5,000 per year per employee to just keep up with the red tape and reporting requirements. That is over and above wages, mandatory employment insurance, workplace injury insurance, federal pension plans and so on.
That 10 week summer student working 40 hours @ $10 / hr; can be quickly summed up as this.
Direct Wages = $10/hr x 40hrs x 10 = $4000
Direct costs = approx 25% of $4000 = $1000
Red tape costs = $5000
So far that is $10,000 not including training or other incidentals. Plus there is more, consider this example: Alert: US Releases Final GHS-Compliant Standard » OHS Insider OHS Insider
I love the line that says the new Standard is over 800 pages long then gives a link to the fact sheet. https://www.osha.gov/dsg/hazcom/HCSFactsheet.html

Things are not always as easy as they appear from the outside.

My take on Scamp? I can mirror the experiences of many. In the end, they have been reliable in always providing what I ordered. Getting to that point has been variable. Given the changes over the years it does look like they are trying.

[Dakota]

I called Scamp yesterday and talked to my salesperson and asked for a new brochure, dvd and the latest options and pricelist. I asked about crank out windows and he said they were standard now and they do not make the sliding windows anymore and have not for a couple of years.

When I asked about Scamp adding the option of LED lights in the future my salesperson responded no and the new light bulbs were brighter now. I was wondering to myself where was this coming from. I asked again and explained that they draw less power from the batteries and it would be great to have if I'm camping off the grid or boondocking and he replied that maybe I could switch the bulbs out and opt for the upgraded battery. If he has the same response when I'm in Backous I'll just ask him if he knows what LED lights are and the benefits of having them as an option.

Basically I just needed to get the updated info sent to me and ask a few brief questions and let him know I'd be up there in a few weeks so I could really check them out in depth and really take the time to ask questions. Coming from a sales background I felt like he wasn't really taking my questions seriously to get me off the phone and ended the phone call with "Yup when you get up here to Backous we will get your deposit and get your trailer. After our phone conversation I just shook my head being annoyed thinking I geez this reminds me of the stereotypical Bubba's Used Car lot experience. Geez these guys make it harder than what it should be. lol

Whenever I have contacted Escape via phone call or e-mail it was so normal and effortless and they were prompt, friendly and professional.

Well in a couple weeks I'll be in Backous and check it out and tactfully make an attempt to ask questions and bring up a few concerns that I have and those expressed in the forum and see if a Scamp will work out for me. It will be good to actually meet their people face to face and see what we can do. Who knows maybe it will be a completely different experience from my past experiences over the phone with them.

[floyd]

I would not sit across the desk from a salesman at the time of purchase of a good for which my knowledge of that good didn't rival or exceed his.
In fact, I believe that the only way to get what you want, is to know what you want, what you are willing to pay, and reserve the right and willingness to refuse the purchase.

The only exception to this is the salesman who doesn't care what I want, doesn't care what the price is, and denies me the right to refuse the purchase. The sad part is that he keeps getting RE-ELECTED!

But seriously, there is a share of responsibility here which has hardly been aired.

[Dakota]

Well let me give you a scenario. Lets say you need a new tow vehicle that can safely tow your RV yet be very economical and fill your needs. 3 engines are offered in this vehicle being a 4 cylinder, V6 and a V8. The standard 4 cylinder is known to be slightly underpowered when matched to this particular vehicle but keeps the price down and competitive. The V6 is known to be the most well rounded engine for towing and fuel economy and just happens to be their top selling option by far. The v8 option is more performance oriented but the fuel economy will suffer and it's known to be a gas guzzler which could affect resale especially if fuel prices go up.

You go to a car dealership and let your salesperson know what vehicle and engine your interested in, how you will be using it and what weight range you will be towing. Unfortunately you find out from the salesperson that the dealership is sold out of the V6 option but they have the standard 4 cylinder or v8 available which the salesperson says will work perfectly with your rv and everyday needs.

Basically you realize the dealer is not interested in arranging a dealer trade that day or ordering the v6 equipped vehicle your interested in from the factory in which either option is readily available. Instead that dealer and salesperson are focused in making the sale today and will hammer you on the standard 4 cylinder which being slightly underpowered by itself will really be struggling towing your RV and it will most likely be shortening the engine and drivetrain life besides all the other issues that will arise or they will push the v8 which costs more than the v6 option wise but will be a gas guzzler and is way more vehicle than you need and it's a slow seller which will affect resale in the future.

You repeatedly bring up concerns and your salesperson either ignores them or laughs, shrugs it off and treats you like you are an idiot. That salesperson knows what is best for you and is an expert since he does this every day.

So you know this guy is pulling stuff out of his rear end to put it politely to high pressure you into a vehicle you don't want.

What would you do since there is some shared responsibility?

Go ahead and reluctantly purchase the 4cyl or v8?

Ask for the owner and see if you can bypass your salesperson and go ahead and basically do his job by arranging either a dealer trade or ordering from the factory the v6 equipped vehicle you want and asking the owner to just give you what he would of paid that salesperson for the sale?

Just blow off this knucklehead dealership and find another that will be a easier to deal with and save you time and aggravation?

The example I gave you may be a little extreme but it all comes down to actually listening to the customer and making every attempt to give them what they need whether it be correct information and be sincere and listen to their concerns. This is just fundamental in sales and good customer service.

I really like Scamp and feel it's a great product and price point but it just needs to be tweaked(door seals for example) and updated a little bit rather than the customer having to bear the additional expense and burden to update it themselves to what is trending or now established in the RV industry. Having lived in Minnesota and being next door in South Dakota it almost feel like I'm supporting the home team but the few times I've called them I feel like I'm talking to some old school stereotypical used car salesman wearing an old polyester leisure suit and there is a secret handshake or password needed to get the correct information on what is actually available for options on their trailers not listed in the brochure or website.

Like I've said I'll go up there to Backous in a few weeks and meet their staff face to face and see how it goes hoping it will be a far different experience but if I run into a "stick in the mud" attitude I'll just move on and purchase another brand.

[Hman66]

Dakota...so your salesperson said crank out windows are standard and they don't make the sliding ones....interesting. When I ordered last week, it appeared you could have both and specify which you wanted. This was exemplified on my purchase order sheet when "crank out windows" was hand written in with my other options. Another example of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing. ) I liked your example and believe it to be a good one. Not everyone can be as knowledgable as Floyd when making this purchase and you rely on your sales person to be informed, knowledgable of all options available, and have the patience and willingness to be able to ascertain your needs and build a product to meet those needs. Having trained hundreds of sales people, it is the salespersons responsibility to 'consult' with a buyer during the sales process, to assure a happy purchaser in the end THUS, a repeat customer.
Roy....in the long run, the cost of hiring a person to take care of these issues would be money well spent and ultimately offset by increased sales. Read back through this thread alone and note the lost sales already incurred.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by floyd

Scamp has been in business for 42 years, with an extremely high satisfaction rate. Escape is doing fine, but they are a new kid on the block and still have more to learn from Scamp than the other way around.

New kid on the block.... you could say that about ALL the other manufacturers... including Casita since Scamp has been in continuous business the longest. But, Escape is third in line for longevity now AFTER Casita. Oliver, TrilliumRV, Parkliner, Lil Snoozy and even Bigfoot falls after when discussing continuous builds.

I think Escape DID learn from Scamp and took everything that was wrong or broken and improved on it. Better communication, MUCH better customer service, the buyer PICKS the date for the build based on a schedule and date availability. The customer chooses fabrics, formica, flooring, etc. Nothng standard about THAT with Escape (although they will build spec trailers). Escape sends pictures to the buyer during the build, etc., etc., etc. Yep Escape is learning from Scamp